231 replies to this topic

[Russ Bullock]

Metus regem, on 24 September 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

Thank you for the complement Russ, I appreciate it. For mixed weapon groupings with different ranges it perhaps find an over-lap point and apply the over-range colour?

yes people are right that mixed weapon groups will make it very difficult and possibly not very effective.

The HTAL is a good idea we have been discussing for a long while. That will also help as people don't understand that not every Atlas for example is built by the users the same way. So when one time a splash of your SRM's made an untouched Atlas go Orange in the CT, and the next time it only went Yellow is not an indication of poor hit detection but possibly an indication that one user put less armor on the CT.

[Metus regem]

Another idea, was perhaps a bar through the cross-hair for when SRM are out of range, and when LRM's are in side of the minimum range as well as outside of max range? I think this would help the people that have issues with launching SRM's and LRM's at ranges where they are wasted shots... I know I am guilty of this.

[Jonny Taco]

I've also noticed that while a large group of lasers is "burning" a target that srms fired at that target can sometimes cause 0 damage.

[spottiedogman]

I am very glad to see this post and to see that Russ has taken an interest because I have had a ticket in for weeks now on this issue, now I am an older player and not as savvy about video and screen shots on the fly but willing to learn to fix this issue. I have mechs that I was getting consistent damage that now are up in the wind as to what I will get from game to game, I watch as I hit with weapons and see no damage at all, I have even stood face to face within range on some mechs that should no way no how survive against what I am running and they walk away and I die. What troubles me most though is the mech that just walks right up to you like they know what is going on and take you apart, that is the one I can't figure out!

[Brody319]

It does feel off sometimes. I swear my lasers are hitting and doing damage, but the enemy seems to just keep going.

[Pariah Devalis]

Considering it is a damage over time system, even 1/5 of the damage not registering is way too much. Lasers need every bit possible to register. :\

[A Man In A Can]

Russ Bullock, on 24 September 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Metus regem, on 24 September 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

Another idea, was perhaps a bar through the cross-hair for when SRM are out of range, and when LRM's are in side of the minimum range as well as outside of max range? I think this would help the people that have issues with launching SRM's and LRM's at ranges where they are wasted shots... I know I am guilty of this.

I made a similar suggestion a while back to help new players understand that unique property of the missile class. Especially on the locking ones. They shouldn't be locking onto targets beyond their max distance, so I suggested that their lock should either be yellow but never turn red, or not even show up until the target is within optimum range. Given how locks are already hard to come by, I'd say make it yellow so when the target does step into range it is a quicker transition to red.

Of course that does make it a bit tricky when you have both locking weapons on the same mech with different optimal ranges. At the moment I have no solution to that.

Edited by Mechwarrior Mousse, 24 September 2014 - 05:09 PM.

[Valore]

Its definitely not a range issue.

Say an Atlas is walking from right to left while facing me.

If I shoot him in the centre torso AS I SEE IT ON SCREEN, I will register a hit on his right torso

Bad picture here:



So if I wanted to hit him centre torso, I would have to aim to the left, as seen in the picture above.

The problem is of course excerbated with lights, because they're running around so fast, you can't even monitor where your shots are landing.

And as mentioned, in certain situations, say lights running at high speeds really close up, hits don't register at all, the crosshair won't even flash red. I suspect the reality is you have to lead REALLY FAR ahead of him, which is of course impossible to do when he's buzzing around your head close up.

Edited by Valore, 24 September 2014 - 05:22 PM.

[divinedisclaimer]

I am sorry, but there is nothing wrong with laser hit detection. Lasers are my bread and butter and always have been. I would have noticed. Half my mechs only have lasers. When I see an open enemy I know the total damage potential of my beam combo as well as their internals health and if I score a solid hit it literally never fails to take them out.

If there is an issue, it's due to general latency, and associated with the recent server move and issues acknowledged with that.

Many of you don't understand how lasers work. The laser is not doing a literal continuous damage stream. It is many fast damage procs to simulate a continuous damage stream. I assume this is fairly typical as far as game design goes.

Anyway that means the faster your cursor is moving, the more spread out those damage procs are. I see a lot of people raking when they should be tracking, but worse raking fast in the opposite direction. I am under the impression it's possible to do less than %1 damage (and receive a hit-coin) this way, and I don't know if the game has a minimum for registered damage.

Edited by divinedisclaimer, 24 September 2014 - 06:30 PM.

[divinedisclaimer]

Also light legs have accurately modeled hitboxes (like all of the mechs in this game), which is awesome, so yes, when they swing their legs as they move almost all of your damage falls into the void if you just aim for the knee. You're better firing for the hips so this doesn't happen; unless you notice their legs are already damaged or they give you a shot at low angular velocity where you can damage one.

The assumption that you should always fire for light's legs is a bad one. They're all running XL engines. If you can't get a solid leg hit put the beam center mass. Leg shots on lights are better suited for ballistic weapons, PPC's, missiles and so forth.

Edited by divinedisclaimer, 24 September 2014 - 06:37 PM.

[Valore]

divinedisclaimer, on 24 September 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

If there is an issue, it's due to general latency, and associated with the recent server move and issues acknowledged with that.

I think that's exactly what people have said.

When HSR for lasers first came out, it was fantastic. Its only recently that performance has taken a dip.

[Kjudoon]

Valore, on 24 September 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

Its definitely not a range issue.

Say an Atlas is walking from right to left while facing me.

If I shoot him in the centre torso AS I SEE IT ON SCREEN, I will register a hit on his right torso

Bad picture here:



So if I wanted to hit him centre torso, I would have to aim to the left, as seen in the picture above.

The problem is of course excerbated with lights, because they're running around so fast, you can't even monitor where your shots are landing.

And as mentioned, in certain situations, say lights running at high speeds really close up, hits don't register at all, the crosshair won't even flash red. I suspect the reality is you have to lead REALLY FAR ahead of him, which is of course impossible to do when he's buzzing around your head close up.

This backs up what I've been hearing from friends who have much better computers and higher FPS than me when I'm shooting while they spectate. Also, when you're getting death swirled and your FPS drops to say...6... like mine does... this means you cannot even see the mechs half the time that run over 100kph let alone shoot them because everything becomes a very rapid slide show. We're leading the targets, but then we need to lead them even more to hit what we're aiming at because of the lag sheilds.

Now that's a weird thought... what if hitboxes did not track precisely with the actual visual image, but instead lagged behind to compensate? The faster the speed the mech moved, the more the hitboxes would track behind. I don't even know if that's possible, but it's an interesting theory... and probably won't work because of varying FPS/ping issues... but it's a thought.

after all, what we see is not what's always what is.

[Valore]

Kjudoon, on 24 September 2014 - 06:44 PM, said:

Now that's a weird thought... what if hitboxes did not track precisely with the actual visual image, but instead lagged behind to compensate? The faster the speed the mech moved, the more the hitboxes would track behind. I don't even know if that's possible, but it's an interesting theory... and probably won't work because of varying FPS/ping issues... but it's a thought.

after all, what we see is not what's always what is.

It shouldn't have to be messed around with that way, because HSR is meant to address that exact issue. What you hit on your screen is what the server will compensate for.

I'm hoping they find the issue and we go back to that joyous time of shooting a light with large lasers and seeing it actually flee for its life, rather than continuing to circle and machine gun you.

[Glythe]

Looking back to the days when lights had ridiculous lag shield it kinda feels similar to that once again. Ballistics hit them just fine as do SRMs. Lasers are extremely bad about registering hits and it's silly as they are literally the most hitscan of all weapons in the game yet have the worse performance.

I find that lasers rarely do anywhere near the damage they should unless:

1) The target has 50 ping or less
2) The target is a light mech that has completely stopped
3) The target is large, not using jump jets and moving around 55 kph or less


Right now it feels like you are sometimes better off sweeping your lasers wildly around where you think the light might be/might be going rather than actually aiming at the target.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

While I have not noticed any requirement to lag shoot (unless my ping or my target's ping are 250+), I do wonder how long (probably best to use X and Y for the pings for the shooter and target) it should take from "click fire" to "damage applied" and "damage seen on the target's paper doll" ... it feels like it's usually more than about a half second and sometimes as much as a full second (my ping is normally 175-275).

I'm not trying to discount anyone's experience or data, just trying to completely understand the problem, and whether it's perception (I didn't see the damage applied) or actual loss of hit reg (less damage was applied than should have been), or a combination of the two.

[Valore]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 24 September 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

While I have not noticed any requirement to lag shoot (unless my ping or my target's ping are 250+), I do wonder how long (probably best to use X and Y for the pings for the shooter and target) it should take from "click fire" to "damage applied" and "damage seen on the target's paper doll" ... it feels like it's usually more than about a half second and sometimes as much as a full second (my ping is normally 175-275).

I'm not trying to discount anyone's experience or data, just trying to completely understand the problem, and whether it's perception (I didn't see the damage applied) or actual loss of hit reg (less damage was applied than should have been), or a combination of the two.

From what you're saying, its possible that HSR for whatever reason is now responding poorly to high ping around 200 - 400. It was working fine previously.

I don't think we're having a 'damage mysteriously disappearing' issue. What we're likely seeing, is HSR degrading, and people attributing the resulting effects as hitreg problems.

For example. Someone is moving fast to the left. I shoot his rightmost bodypart on my screen.



Because HSR is currently wonky, the server thinks I'm shooting in the air beside him. I therefore have no idea about whether my shots are:

1. 'Disappearing', i.e. Hitreg is broken

or

2. Not hitting where HSR should put it, i.e., HSR is broken.

These are two different problems. I think weapons are registering, just that with HSR not performing up to scratch, people are getting confused as to what's actually happening.

I'm saying this, because when I 'lead' a target, I get pretty good hit registration on a consistent basis.

Edited by Valore, 24 September 2014 - 08:48 PM.

[Brody319]

Another issue is that the effects on the armor still play. I see the glow, but the damage doesn't show up. So it fools people into thinking they hit, when they didn't because of lag.

[Mazerius]

Brody319, on 24 September 2014 - 09:02 PM, said:

Another issue is that the effects on the armor still play. I see the glow, but the damage doesn't show up. So it fools people into thinking they hit, when they didn't because of lag.

Ive had this happen quite often with PPCs, even had the reticle turn red, but the enemies paper doll didnt change. Not sure whats up there, My system gets good fps 60ish most of the time so its not that, and my pings around 80, so not sure if HSR is the issue.


Edit: and they were beyond 90 meters most memorable one had the target at around 250m.

Edited by Mazerius, 24 September 2014 - 09:54 PM.

[Ghogiel]

I suppose I am in a decent position to film the reg errors because I can practically guarantee PPC reg ******* up within 5 games..

It'll be harder to demonstrate the laser reg while running lights, because there are several types of reg issues with them, sometimes it's lag leading on lights, sometimes it's putting 3 alphas into a stationary lurm assault back CT and it's still orange...

I have filmed reg issues before.. but that was a while ago when it was much worse

Edited by Ghogiel, 24 September 2014 - 10:05 PM.

[M0rpHeu5]

You could add damage numbers on the ragdoll indicating where and how much damage did we do.
(with the ability to turne them off of cousrse)