231 replies to this topic

[Kjudoon]

M0rpHeu5, on 24 September 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

You could add damage numbers on the ragdoll indicating where and how much damage did we do.
(with the ability to turne them off of cousrse)

That'd definitely teach players how to aim better and expose whether or not they're actually hitting for easier identification of issues.

I would also love to see three improvements on your death screen:

A 'killer's view" of your mech as it goes down so you know how you magically got destroyed.
The damage numbers from the weapons that killed you.
Weapons that killed you listed individually in that final blast.

Having these three bits of information would go a LONG way to alleviating failure freakouts. I know there are many times I've been killed and gone HOW?!?!? (long string of epithets here) because I had no idea.

[Valore]

Kjudoon, on 24 September 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

A 'killer's view" of your mech as it goes down so you know how you magically got destroyed.

This would be an issue unless it only came after the post match scores, for the same reason why 'hardcore' mode servers for games such as BF4 don't allow killcams. Basically put, you could start revealing where the enemy hit you from to your teammates if you instantly got an idea where he was firing from.

[Kiyoshi Amaya]

Here's a video for you, Russ

Just get a pen and paper, add up the damage you think I did as you watch (best to watch in the combat in slow motion), and then compare your total with the damage total at the end. I bet your total is nowhere close.



I'll post more when I have more examples of bad hit reg.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

I have the same issues with lasers. I once shot a Hunchie clearly in its side torso right next to his arm, but the reg was on his CT ( he was moving rather slow). Lights are much worser, as they do not get any damage at all, even with a full beam over their visuals. Also, I have a certain delay of firing the lasers and the crosshair getting red, which oddly enough does not happen with IS weapons. So a Clan Medium laser has more issues that the IS-Variant, but thats only an impression - I'm not sure about this one.

The same goes with SRMs, as odd it may sound, sometimes they do not register either and have the same problem we had a year ago. Only a slight blinking from going to yellow to... yellow, when hit with a full salvo.

I have not used PPCs anymore, but I've seen PPC going through a mech over the deathcam, esp. on mechs that were shut down by overheating.

Another issue with hit-reg is the "crit-damage" or so. At the other side of the medal, I've been destroyed by 2xAC/20 shots (40 damage) in the back of my Shadowhawk. It hit the CT in the back and did a crit, as my center weapon got destroyed, but an AC/20 should not have an increase damage output with raw damage, but only to internal components, like weapons, heat sinks etc. I had no ammo in my CT. The overall healt of my CT + back-armor was:
36 (internal) + 8 rear-armor = 44 health points in total. So a dual AC/20 cannot destroy me, but did. I was undamaged at this point and one-shotted.

Please also have a look at that.
For weapons like MGs and LB-X, and increased raw-damage potential is stated for both hitting internals and while critting, but not for the AC/20.
Same goes with SRMs too. In my Cataphract, I was with with 18 SRMs(with Artemis) from about 30 m away. Even assuming, ALL hit the CT, that 38.70 damage points. My front armor with light orange, implying about at least 40 armor points left + internals (44 hp) which should be about 90 hp of remaining hp. 3SRM6 do not reach a damage potential of 90. No ammo in CT either. Please have a look on crits in this manner and possible "over damage" while debugging. I do not want to accuse someone for something, that could also be a bug in the game. At least not right now.

Edited by Túatha Dé Danann, 25 September 2014 - 02:16 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Shrekken, on 25 September 2014 - 01:42 AM, said:

Here's a video for you, Russ

Just get a pen and paper, add up the damage you think I did as you watch (best to watch in the combat in slow motion), and then compare your total with the damage total at the end. I bet your total is nowhere close.



I'll post more when I have more examples of bad hit reg.

I thought about ~100dam or so. 79 does seem off... but so was a lot of the shooting XD

[Kiyoshi Amaya]

Ghogiel, on 25 September 2014 - 03:52 AM, said:

I thought about ~100dam or so. 79 does seem off... but so was a lot of the shooting XD

LOL yeah a lot of shooting was off. Frustration levels were high tho. I counted around 120 without taking partial hits into account.

[Foksuh]

Would be easier to judge if the FPS was steady 30+ or preferably 60+ but.. those FPS spikes just make it all the worse to say anything on the video

[Kiyoshi Amaya]

Yes, this is also true. I just recently changed isp and got a faster connection... Still not seeing any difference with hit reg or fps stability. I also have a new router on it's way so we'll see if that makes any difference (the one I was supplied with is a really [redacted] big pile of [redacted]).

[Bront]

Russ Bullock, on 24 September 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

yes people are right that mixed weapon groups will make it very difficult and possibly not very effective.

The HTAL is a good idea we have been discussing for a long while. That will also help as people don't understand that not every Atlas for example is built by the users the same way. So when one time a splash of your SRM's made an untouched Atlas go Orange in the CT, and the next time it only went Yellow is not an indication of poor hit detection but possibly an indication that one user put less armor on the CT.

A functionally easy to read HTAL would help quite a bit. The one we have now is functional, but hard to read due to vague colors. Even if you required the Active Probe to get it on enemies (a reason to take the probe), it would be helpful to know this info about your own mech. It might also help solve the hit-reg perception issue.

One thing I have observed, is that there's a delay in showing that I hit, and showing damage on the mech. So I can hit a mech, and then torso-twist away, and suddenly I get a component destruction bonus or kill. It makes focusing on components harder because you're not 100% sure you're hitting them either.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Make medium and small pulse laser beam durations WAY shorter please, increase cool down or whatever but they should be accurate as heck.

Honestly I think SPL should have about a 0.2 duration and a 1s cooldown. Let it be a laser MG that makes a lot of heat.

[Greenjulius]

Shrekken, on 25 September 2014 - 01:42 AM, said:

I don't think you had enough facetime with enemy mechs to get over 100 damage... You were never really given an opportunity to do damage because you were mostly too far away or shooting at fast mechs. You met up with a Commando, famous for it's ridiculously small hitboxes and a Thunderbolt at near max range for medium lasers, and only for a second. Neither probably got you more than 15 damage. The majority of your damage looked to be on the cicada, probably around 50-70. You got a couple shots off on other mechs too, but at long range for mediums and what appeared to be glancing shots not held on target. 79 seems about right, especially taking the framerate into account.

[Greenjulius]

I think the bigger issue is the near invulnerability of some lights to constant fire. I really wish I got a video of this, but in one match, a player desynced while in a commando, and his mech was stuck in a constant run a full speed in a tight circle. It was the last mech in the match on the enemy team, and once we saw it, we died in laughter. What followed was even better.

6 mechs, mostly heavies and assaults, shot at the commando for over two minutes. Hit regs with ACs, lasers and SRMs. Burn marks, the armor flashing, but it just wouldn't die. Eventually I attempted to lodge my Atlas in it's way to get it stuck. Didn't work. It just slid around my Atlas and continued to do loops. It took almost 3 minutes to kill. While funny, it annoys me that Spiders and Commandos seem to have lag armor that no other mech enjoys to such a degree. I suspect it's a latency issue, and that the mech is actually a fraction of a second ahead of where they appear to the player.

Edited by Greenjulius, 25 September 2014 - 08:45 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Like that little commando i shot last night....was missing his right arm and had Crit RT i hit him with a A/C20 round while he circled me. It registered that i hit his RT but his LEFT ARM blew off..... Even the Commando pilot said something after that match.


Also have to agree with Greenjulius, your DMG was not wrong. The amount if time you fired and the amount that hit coupled with low FPS and the known issues id say you got pretty close to DMG you were suppose to get.

Edited by DarthRevis, 25 September 2014 - 08:24 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

Hit reg has a problem with jumping. This video is from today at the end the jag hits my legs when i jump i take dmg somewhere else. I should have been legged with this hit.


75 dmg alpha seams like it should be doing more damage then red armor . Maybe the large lasers were hitting something? It would be helpful if something happen when they hit something other than a mech, maybe different color sparks?




Hit reg has a bad problem with hills. Im guessing its the same as with jumping. In the video you can see i take lots of damage without being hit. I take a gauss shot to the side of the leg and counts as a CT hit.
A raven shoots down at me from the take does a little dmg to my back and hits me in the legs at the end does no damage.



These videos are not the best examples. They're just what i could come up with today.

[Kiyoshi Amaya]

Greenjulius, on 25 September 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

I don't think you had enough facetime with enemy mechs to get over 100 damage... You were never really given an opportunity to do damage because you were mostly too far away or shooting at fast mechs. You met up with a Commando, famous for it's ridiculously small hitboxes and a Thunderbolt at near max range for medium lasers, and only for a second. Neither probably got you more than 15 damage. The majority of your damage looked to be on the cicada, probably around 50-70. You got a couple shots off on other mechs too, but at long range for mediums and what appeared to be glancing shots not held on target. 79 seems about right, especially taking the framerate into account.

You didn't take the test, did you.

[Kiyoshi Amaya]

Here's another video, Russ.
I try to pick the most obvious footage, so it's easy to see the problem. The samples were from a couple of days ago. Enjoy.



I'll keep recording my matches and see if I can get more samples for you.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Russ Bullock, on 24 September 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

One idea we are discussing is some new debug window output of each weapon you fire and displaying if it hit and how much damage it applied for duration based weapons.

This would be present on something like Public test.

Many players could come and match up and play as usual with this window outputting the data. Players then could be recording footage. This would then tell us very clearly if there was video evidence of laying a beam on the CT for the entire duration in max damage range but the damage output window displaying less than full damage.

Or on the other hand it might show the player that they were outside of max damage range and therefore were only supposed to do be doing 70% damage. I assume many of those moments while playing in real time are not registered by the players. But having video footage that directly corresponds with a damage output window would provide a way to go back and review for any discrepancies.

Or just give us an optional combat window in the real server!

[Thorqemada]

When you spectate (or at least when i spectate) i never see a Laser on the target - they allways lag behind.
Somehow they still do some damage but far from full damage - they only time you really witness good hits is really slow and big Targets.

[Kiyoshi Amaya]

Thorqemada, on 25 September 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

When you spectate (or at least when i spectate) i never see a Laser on the target - they allways lag behind.
Somehow they still do some damage but far from full damage - they only time you really witness good hits is really slow and big Targets.

That's because of lag. The signal from the person you're watching has to go from the pilot to the server and then to you. The result is that you won't see what the pilot can see unless he/she records it and you watch the video. Just watch for reticle flashes and target read-out updates.

[Monkey Lover]

So does this one look right? ac40 does no dmg ppc hits.