223 replies to this topic

[LordMelvin]

I personally love the both designs.

The only thing I'd change about the new ones is the animations. The MW4 animations for the chicken walkers looked almost predatory, especially on the clan mechs. As it stands a precious few of the MWO mechs have animations that aren't just flat footed stomping.

Compare the Mad Cat walk animation to the Daishi and you'll see what I mean. It's worse when they start back up.

[Ph30nix]

FupDup, on 14 October 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

Hero variant with CT energy hardpoints?

have to have 2, that turret had 2 ML in it remember.

imagine the zombie builds lol

[Bishop Steiner]

LordMelvin, on 14 October 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

I personally love the both designs.

The only thing I'd change about the new ones is the animations. The MW4 animations for the chicken walkers looked almost predatory, especially on the clan mechs. As it stands a precious few of the MWO mechs have animations that aren't just flat footed stomping.

Compare the Mad Cat walk animation to the Daishi and you'll see what I mean. It's worse when they start back up.

That is the point I am making about it's stance. It doesn't crouch enough when at rest, or have the predatory bb from the deeper bowed stance. It prances and dances, partly from the legs being kept too erect.

Ph30nix, on 14 October 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

have to have 2, that turret had 2 ML in it remember.

imagine the zombie builds lol

hardpoints is plural.

[Kiiyor]

RangerGee412, on 24 September 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:

I personally like the look. The original version looks cool but those pencil legs look like they could snap at any moment.

The new version looks like a proper mech that would be able to take damage.

Pencil legs indeed. Here's an example from the extreme pencil leg end of the spectrum, in some fan art from deviantart:



I love the look of that, LOVE IT, more so than the original, but something seems... wrong.

Though I can utterly ignore real life physics where battletech is concerned (it's like going to a Michael Bay movie - brain = OFF), the whole square cube law thing is screaming in my ear every time I look at those legs. I can't suspend disbelief! I guess, like you, I agree with our Dog legs as they are.

[Walluh]

I fully agree with PGI making legs and arms beefier than original designs. Because most of the original designs limbs would snap off immediately after being hit by an ac/10 or 20, and quite frankly, look awful. These look like proper beefy mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Walluh, on 14 October 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

I fully agree with PGI making legs and arms beefier than original designs. Because most of the original designs limbs would snap off immediately after being hit by an ac/10 or 20, and quite frankly, look awful. These look like proper beefy mechs.

Pretty sure they would still be beefy if scaled down slightly, just more in proportion.

But even more, with the current legs, those would work better with a more predatory stance. Legs more Catapult bent.

Kiiyor, on 14 October 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

Pencil legs indeed. Here's an example from the extreme pencil leg end of the spectrum, in some fan art from deviantart:



I love the look of that, LOVE IT, more so than the original, but something seems... wrong.

Though I can utterly ignore real life physics where battletech is concerned (it's like going to a Michael Bay movie - brain = OFF), the whole square cube law thing is screaming in my ear every time I look at those legs. I can't suspend disbelief! I guess, like you, I agree with our Dog legs as they are.

the art on that is good, is it Shortpainter?

Either way, while I like it, I have the same complaint I have with SP, his work is usually too streamlined and stuff to feel Battletech.

[Kiiyor]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

Pretty sure they would still be beefy if scaled down slightly, just more in proportion.

But even more, with the current legs, those would work better with a more predatory stance. Legs more Catapult bent.


the art on that is good, is it Shortpainter?

Either way, while I like it, I have the same complaint I have with SP, his work is usually too streamlined and stuff to feel Battletech.

Nope, dude called Brehnman on DA. He doesn't have much BT stuff up yet, but i've thrown a watch there anyhoo. Fount it while trawling newest first for BT stuff.

I think you're right about the streamlined thing with that - especially around the CT. What gets me about it though, is the awesomeness of the pose. I can imagine the way it would walk, a hunched sort of strut. The walk animation for ours is far too similar to the Cat for me - mayhap something could be done with the animation to make it more Vulture?

[Bishop Steiner]

Kiiyor, on 14 October 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

Nope, dude called Brehnman on DA. He doesn't have much BT stuff up yet, but i've thrown a watch there anyhoo. Fount it while trawling newest first for BT stuff.

I think you're right about the streamlined thing with that - especially around the CT. What gets me about it though, is the awesomeness of the pose. I can imagine the way it would walk, a hunched sort of strut. The walk animation for ours is far too similar to the Cat for me - mayhap something could be done with the animation to make it more Vulture?

That's what I been saying, lol.

It needs a deeper crouch, especially at rest. But also, more of a bob when walking.

I might have to play with that pose and see if it translates to a beefier version.

[Mothykins]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

That's what I been saying, lol.

It needs a deeper crouch, especially at rest. But also, more of a bob when walking.

I might have to play with that pose and see if it translates to a beefier version.

Speaking of Walks, I think the Catapult probably has one of the BETTER walking animations (Lots of bobing, looks good moving). How does it stack to the Vultures?

[Bishop Steiner]

Cavale, on 14 October 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

Speaking of Walks, I think the Catapult probably has one of the BETTER walking animations (Lots of bobing, looks good moving). How does it stack to the Vultures?

If you read in my various replies, it is what I think is need for the Vulture. It stands with it's legs more bowed, and the stride is perfect. Mad Dog and TW both would look awesome using that rigging. Maybe a slowed down version would help the Warhawk and Dire Wolf, too.

[Kiiyor]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

That's what I been saying, lol.

It needs a deeper crouch, especially at rest. But also, more of a bob when walking.

I might have to play with that pose and see if it translates to a beefier version.

I agree! with the pose. The thing that bothers me with the bobbing though (though I like it), is the insane inaccuracy it would bring to a weapons platform. I know, I know, BT physics beats the crap out of RL physics and all that, but gun stabilization is one of the more awesome emerging techs in modern warfare. If you look at videos of the Abrams, Merkava, or even the old Leopards, you'll see that once they have a target, the gun barely moves vertically at all, despite the terrain they are travelling over. I've since found out that squillions of dollars are spent on this, so the tanks can remain accurate while moving.

I'd love to see something done to the arms of our mechs to stabilize them - keep them level each time the mech takes a step. A hunching of the shoulders, lifting of the forearms, whatever.

Look at the Awesome - it swings it's arms while it walks in every freaking direction. It looks like a fat man competing in an Olympic steeplechase.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kiiyor, on 14 October 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

I agree! with the pose. The thing that bothers me with the bobbing though (though I like it), is the insane inaccuracy it would bring to a weapons platform. I know, I know, BT physics beats the crap out of RL physics and all that, but gun stabilization is one of the more awesome emerging techs in modern warfare. If you look at videos of the Abrams, Merkava, or even the old Leopards, you'll see that once they have a target, the gun barely moves vertically at all, despite the terrain they are travelling over. I've since found out that squillions of dollars are spent on this, so the tanks can remain accurate while moving.

I'd love to see something done to the arms of our mechs to stabilize them - keep them level each time the mech takes a step. A hunching of the shoulders, lifting of the forearms, whatever.

Look at the Awesome - it swings it's arms while it walks in every freaking direction. It looks like a fat man competing in an Olympic steeplechase.

Well, 25 minute sketch. Brehnman's pose, Alex's concept.

[Hell in a Helmet]

I blame the large thighs and calves on evolution. The Mad Dog/Vulture ancestors have used running as their main survival tool since 2784.

[Kiiyor]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 October 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

Well, 25 minute sketch. Brehnman's pose, Alex's concept.

SWEET JESUS.

You're right though. Upper leg swept back = Win.

[Tarogato]

If you look at the vertical red line, it shows that the hips are in front of the middle of the foot in the art, but our MWO mech has the hips behind the middle of the foot.

The MWO mech also has the hips right in the center of the torso, while the art has them noticeably forward. I think all our leg problems would be solved if we just moved that hip joint forward about 13% and made the legs longer to compensate and get closer to that 90 degree angle we see in the blue line. This would set the mech a little lower in profile and solve the issue we see with proportions shown by the purple line.

[Golden Vulf]

The new game design is great. I'd rather forget about the old skinny style, it doesn't work in this game. Long barrels might seem out of place too.

[Bishop Steiner]

Golden Vulf, on 14 October 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

The new game design is great. I'd rather forget about the old skinny style, it doesn't work in this game. Long barrels might seem out of place too.

Not asking for skinny.

Tarogato, on 14 October 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

If you look at the vertical red line, it shows that the hips are in front of the middle of the foot in the art, but our MWO mech has the hips behind the middle of the foot.

The MWO mech also has the hips right in the center of the torso, while the art has them noticeably forward. I think all our leg problems would be solved if we just moved that hip joint forward about 13% and made the legs longer to compensate and get closer to that 90 degree angle we see in the blue line. This would set the mech a little lower in profile and solve the issue we see with proportions shown by the purple line.

OK, this is what I am talking about...


Literally NO adjustments were made to the model. No hips moved, no limbes re-sized, nothing.

All I did was re angle the legs at the existing joints. Re-rig it akin to this, and look at how huge a difference you see in height, and the general demeanor of the profile. Doesn't have an upright Planters Peanut Man carriage anymore, but more akin to the Vulture the inner sphere named it after.

Honestly, like that, I don't even really notice the stubby barrels so much

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 October 2014 - 05:05 PM.

[Tarogato]

^ if they made one change and that was it, I'd be happy.

Still a shame about the Nova's geometry, but oh well, that ship has sailed. =P

[Bishop Steiner]

Tarogato, on 14 October 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

^ if they made one change and that was it, I'd be happy.

Still a shame about the Nova's geometry, but oh well, that ship has sailed. =P

Same. And it's such a comparatively simple thing.

I remember back in the day they changed the rigging on the Jagermech and took away it's slouch. I guess, here, I am simply asking they do the opposite, and give baby some slouch, lol.

[ollo]

General Taskeen, on 24 September 2014 - 06:21 AM, said:

The New Mad Dog looks bad. And that's all that really needs to be said.

This is what it should look like in a modern game:



That's from Assault Tech (by MekTek). Smooth, rounded edges, No LEGO blocks, proper classic look all the way back from MW2,

Nice. A walking center torso with 10° arm movement.

But seriously, I know the original designs from novels and other games, and i didn't really notice great differences until this thread. I expected it to be redesigned to fit the general feel of MWO andfor balance reasons so i didn't compare i guess as the profile is still unique and easily recognizable. The Barnsome has shown why it makes sense to deviate a bit, wish they would compress it's torsos like they did with the MDD-arms...