76 replies to this topic

[FrupertApricot]

It is sad that we have to nerf some chassis hard, but the root of it is the fact that clan weapons are simply superior in every single way. Less tonnage, which lets you carry more heat sinks, and the heat sinks are also smaller. Any disadvantage from being locked into an engine or having limited arm range or whatever is only going to make the clan mechs with low pod space useless. the strongest facet and indicator of use for a clan mech is available pod space and hardpoints.

The problem ends up being

Nerf clan weapons and you hurt the inefficient chassis
Leave them the same and actual shooting encounters will almost always favor the clanner.

The only solution I can see is to give them their proper ****, and give the IS access to better targeting, support fire, and spawn advantages.

My proposal is this:

12v12 like you want, but give the IS XXXtons of respawn to bring back into fight or superior starting positions (since they usually on defense). Make being on defense MEAN SOMETHING. This simulates being outnumbered without giving ALPHA SUPERIORITY away.

Essentially LET CLANNERS BE OP but balance it with asymmetry like Hnefatafl, the viking chess board game where one player has 12 pieces and a king and one player has 24 pieces.
Hnefatafl

Edited by FrupertApricot, 24 September 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[Fut]

FrupertApricot, on 24 September 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

It is sad that we have to nerf some chassis hard, but the root of it is the fact that clan weapons are simply superior in every single way. Less tonnage, which lets you carry more heat sinks, and the heat sinks are also smaller. Any disadvantage from being locked into an engine or having limited arm range or whatever is only going to make the clan mechs with low pod space useless. the strongest facet and indicator of use for a clan mech is available pod space and hardpoints.

Dunno, I prefer my ACs to dish out damage in single shells...


Edit:

Although, I do agree with the conclusion of your post.
It would be great if Clans were more powerful, but the balance came from superior numbers for the IS side.

Edited by Fut, 24 September 2014 - 10:01 AM.

[Kain Demos]

Fut, on 24 September 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

Dunno, I prefer my ACs to dish out damage in single shells...

Yeah our ballistics suck except the Gauss.

We don't have any true "light" 'mechs either.

[Fut]

Kain Thul, on 24 September 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

We don't have any true "light" 'mechs either.

Wave 2 has a fairly fast Light Mech, doesn't it?

[Kain Demos]

Fut, on 24 September 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

Wave 2 has a fairly fast Light Mech, doesn't it?

It has a medium 'mech with light type speed kind of like the Cicada.

[FupDup]

Fut, on 24 September 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

Wave 2 has a fairly fast Light Mech, doesn't it?

124.7 kph after Speed Twerk.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

FupDup, on 24 September 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

124.7 kph after Speed Twerk.

With less free tonnage than a commando.

[Bigbacon]

i don't know about this...using clans a lot more I can say.

Hate the burst fire....
Hate the clan LRMs
Hate the clan heat

the weight of the weapons and range is what makes the difference to me, you can just get either a lot of weapons or lots of heavy hitting weapons.

more I use clans, less I like them, although that could be because I am not a very good player. they do seem to take a lot more hits than IS stuff but again i'm not sure if that is true or ont but they seem to keep going longer

Edited by Bigbacon, 24 September 2014 - 10:09 AM.

[Livewyr]

Perhaps, it is in fact the IS tech that is the problem. If the damned IS had not beaten each other to the relative stone age over 3 centuries..maybe they could compete!

Damn IS players think the Universe revolves around their problems...

Edited by Livewyr, 24 September 2014 - 10:10 AM.

[lordoverboard]

In my dire wolf whine thread someone suggested the battleweight system from classic Battletech Boardgame, which basically means more tons for IS teams. That could probably workout, if someone finds a way to balance these numbers.

Edited by sirzorn, 24 September 2014 - 10:16 AM.

[Metus regem]

FrupertApricot, on 24 September 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

It is sad that we have to nerf some chassis hard, but the root of it is the fact that clan weapons are simply superior in every single way. Less tonnage, which lets you carry more heat sinks, and the heat sinks are also smaller. Any disadvantage from being locked into an engine or having limited arm range or whatever is only going to make the clan mechs with low pod space useless. the strongest facet and indicator of use for a clan mech is available pod space and hardpoints.

Ever look at the War Hawk? I've got a crap ton of tonnage and crits tied up in Heat Sinks... I've got a Dual Gauss with 1 ER Small Laser, that is at 213% Heat effiency on Smurf... WHK-A....

I'd love to free up some of those heat sinks for more ammo, or a missle launcher.... Hell even just to move my TC over to the other side and use a bigger one...

The other issue that Clan mechs have, is that the bulk of our hard points (As silly as that is in an omni-mech) are in the arms. so it becomes a case of take an arm, they lose upwards of 50% of their fire-power....

We have a few issues aside from the heat and locked XL engine size... but if you can make it work, boy do they work! That being said, the Clan mechs are not everyone's cup of tea, and I think it's a shame that people think meta is a one size fits all...

[Mcgral18]

We could just help IS balance a little.

Like SRMs. cSRMs are straight up better. One and a half MG bullets doesn't count as being better for twice the weight.

Give them the damage they are supposed to have. PGI removed their guidance; let isSRMs get their Dead-Fire warheads:
http://www.sarna.net...d-Fire_Missiles

50% weight, or 150% damage. Both have some nice advantages. More heat efficient, and better use of hardpoints, or more easily boated.


MRMs would also be nice early. Along with the Atlas S...:




Tweak some balance. Victors will be ballerina's again soon, which hopefully also means the HGN won't be as sluggish either. Probably won't touch the HoverJets, though.

[r4plez]

troll thread

[Sandpit]

Mcgral18, on 24 September 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

We could just help IS balance a little.

Like SRMs. cSRMs are straight up better. One and a half MG bullets doesn't count as being better for twice the weight.

Give them the damage they are supposed to have. PGI removed their guidance; let isSRMs get their Dead-Fire warheads:
http://www.sarna.net...d-Fire_Missiles

50% weight, or 150% damage. Both have some nice advantages. More heat efficient, and better use of hardpoints, or more easily boated.


MRMs would also be nice early. Along with the Atlas S...:




Tweak some balance. Victors will be ballerina's again soon, which hopefully also means the HGN won't be as sluggish either. Probably won't touch the HoverJets, though.

switching JJs to directional instead of just straight up would really help mitigate the JJ issues.

[Piney II]

r4plez, on 24 September 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

troll thread

Roger.

[Metus regem]

Mcgral18, on 24 September 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

We could just help IS balance a little.

Like SRMs. cSRMs are straight up better. One and a half MG bullets doesn't count as being better for twice the weight.

Give them the damage they are supposed to have. PGI removed their guidance; let isSRMs get their Dead-Fire warheads:
http://www.sarna.net...d-Fire_Missiles

50% weight, or 150% damage. Both have some nice advantages. More heat efficient, and better use of hardpoints, or more easily boated.


MRMs would also be nice early. Along with the Atlas S...:




Tweak some balance. Victors will be ballerina's again soon, which hopefully also means the HGN won't be as sluggish either. Probably won't touch the HoverJets, though.

What program is that? I've got Heavy Metal Pro, but that one looks a lot cleaner...

[FupDup]

Metus regem, on 24 September 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

What program is that? I've got Heavy Metal Pro, but that one looks a lot cleaner...

SSW.

Solaris Skunk Werks. Best mechlab evar.

Edited by FupDup, 24 September 2014 - 10:30 AM.

[Metus regem]

FupDup, on 24 September 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

SSW.

Solaris Skunk Werks. Best mechlab evar.

Thanks I'll have to look into it.

[Monkey Lover]

I can't stand clan ac and lrm weapons

gauss is the same

srm is better on IS

streaks are worthless on both

last is lasers, clan lasers are better.

[AztecD]

FupDup, on 24 September 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

SSW.

Solaris Skunk Werks. Best mechlab evar.

u give link now