76 replies to this topic

[Wolfways]

Nah, the problem is players whining for something that will never exist. I.e. balance.

[Mazerius]

FupDup, on 24 September 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

124.7 kph after Speed Twerk.

Speed Twerking must be done with great care.....

[hybrid black]

FrupertApricot, on 24 September 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

It is sad that we have to nerf some chassis hard, but the root of it is the fact that clan weapons are simply superior in every single way. Less tonnage, which lets you carry more heat sinks, and the heat sinks are also smaller. Any disadvantage from being locked into an engine or having limited arm range or whatever is only going to make the clan mechs with low pod space useless. the strongest facet and indicator of use for a clan mech is available pod space and hardpoints.

The problem ends up being

Nerf clan weapons and you hurt the inefficient chassis
Leave them the same and actual shooting encounters will almost always favor the clanner.

The only solution I can see is to give them their proper ****, and give the IS access to better targeting, support fire, and spawn advantages.

My proposal is this:

12v12 like you want, but give the IS XXXtons of respawn to bring back into fight or superior starting positions (since they usually on defense). Make being on defense MEAN SOMETHING. This simulates being outnumbered without giving ALPHA SUPERIORITY away.

Essentially LET CLANNERS BE OP but balance it with asymmetry like Hnefatafl, the viking chess board game where one player has 12 pieces and a king and one player has 24 pieces.
Hnefatafl

clans are not OP you just are bad
http://www.twitch.tv...die/b/571862820

we didnt bring direwolves for drop one to show that it didn't matter

[Lily from animove]

hybrid black, on 24 September 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

clans are not OP you just are bad
http://www.twitch.tv...die/b/571862820

we didnt bring direwolves for drop one to show that it didn't matter

try to bring no DW no TW. TW is kinda assault firepower in a medium speed mech with heavy armor. Totally an issue.

[Livewyr]

Mazerius, on 24 September 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

Speed Twerking must be done with great care.....

I laughed so hard! Thank you for that.

[Mcgral18]

Hillslam, on 24 September 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

Or maybe, just maybe....

Clan weapons and equipment IS better (because it is, you can "emotion" math). And you're just not as good of a pilot as you think you are, you yogurt roleplaying neckbeard you.

(PS I own the Masakari pack and have mastered most of them, they are better)

Lasers have more range and are hotter. Most say better, but I would take isMLs if I had the choice on my Nova. Too damn hot.
Pulse lasers are universally poor weapons. IS have faster burn times, less heat. Clans have longer range, though nearly comparable to IS standard lasers, for more tonnage with marginally better damage.

cUACs are worse.
cLRMs are debatable. If there's no AMS, better. Magic Jesus Box affects them both equally, with the same 1 ton tax to use them.

cSRMs are better (give IS the Dead-Fire warheads and be done with it)
cGauss is better (same, 3 tons lighter)
cMGs are better, half weight.

The majority of the Clan chassis are actually inferior, or suboptimal at the very least. There are two that can be considered the best, but even they could be min maxed harder.

You can't call the Cute Fox, Badder, Suckonner or PeaceDove OP and be taken seriously. The NopeVa is hot, the Dire Whale is slow as balls. Those two are boats, one which can't really boat anymore.

There are two chassis' that are overperforming. Calling all Clan mechs OP is laughable, and makes you look bad.

Calling all Clan weapons OP makes you look bad.



Call out the things that are true, and you will be taken seriously. Otherwise, you might as well be crying "OMGWTFBBQ P2W HAXORX" for everything that comes out.

Edited by Mcgral18, 25 September 2014 - 10:21 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 24 September 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

SSW.

Solaris Skunk Werks. Best mechlab evar.

2nd best. Rick Raisley's Heavy Metal Series of Programs was better. Now Skunk may be the best FREE design program if we want to make a distinction.

[Ph30nix]

FrupertApricot, on 24 September 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

It is sad that we have to nerf some chassis hard, but the root of it is the fact that clan weapons are simply superior in every single way. Less tonnage, which lets you carry more heat sinks, and the heat sinks are also smaller. Any disadvantage from being locked into an engine or having limited arm range or whatever is only going to make the clan mechs with low pod space useless. the strongest facet and indicator of use for a clan mech is available pod space and hardpoints.

The problem ends up being

Nerf clan weapons and you hurt the inefficient chassis
Leave them the same and actual shooting encounters will almost always favor the clanner.

The only solution I can see is to give them their proper ****, and give the IS access to better targeting, support fire, and spawn advantages.

My proposal is this:

12v12 like you want, but give the IS XXXtons of respawn to bring back into fight or superior starting positions (since they usually on defense). Make being on defense MEAN SOMETHING. This simulates being outnumbered without giving ALPHA SUPERIORITY away.

Essentially LET CLANNERS BE OP but balance it with asymmetry like Hnefatafl, the viking chess board game where one player has 12 pieces and a king and one player has 24 pieces.
Hnefatafl

my god people get this into your head and then maybe you can think of realistic balancing methods
the clans REAL advantages is extra tonnage.

1. half weight weapons
2. No death on XL kill so all mechs us XL

their whole advantage in the end comes down 100% to the extra weight they have.
If you gave IS mechs 1/2 weight weapons and no death on XL guess what IS mechs and their weapons WOULD STEAM ROLL clans left and right.

yes they have some other advantages but (less crits for items) but most of my IS builds have crits to spare.

Im telling you right now the biggest balance to IS vs Clan would be to implement Light Fusion engines.
they are 75% the weight of standard and allow you to survive a ST loss.
IS assaults and Heavies would be able to take a LFE in place of a STD and give themselves anywhere from about 8tons extra to 12 tons extra.
imagine if a highlander, atlas or battle master had 10 extra tons free on their current best builds.
What horrors would we see IS pilots fielding? bare minimum we would see every IS assault fielding max rating engine more than likely they would keep the speed they have now and slap on a few extra weapons.

Lily from animove, on 25 September 2014 - 04:05 AM, said:

try to bring no DW no TW. TW is kinda assault firepower in a medium speed mech with heavy armor. Totally an issue.

id take that challenge but if clan gets steamrolled does that mean you will support buffing all the other clan mechs?

[Metus regem]

BlakeAteIt, on 24 September 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

WHK-A If you're stuck with the heatsinks, may as well use them! This has similar alpha, higher DPS, and more ammo. Also, it skips the annoying gauss charge. The downside is that it's not got quite the range, though.

I've been thinking about this actually, WHK-A

But right now, I am enjoying ripping mechs apart with the dual gauss, I just wish I could rip out the heat sinks or move them around a bit...

Ph30nix, on 25 September 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

my god people get this into your head and then maybe you can think of realistic balancing methods
the clans REAL advantages is extra tonnage.

1. half weight weapons
2. No death on XL kill so all mechs us XL

their whole advantage in the end comes down 100% to the extra weight they have.
If you gave IS mechs 1/2 weight weapons and no death on XL guess what IS mechs and their weapons WOULD STEAM ROLL clans left and right.

yes they have some other advantages but (less crits for items) but most of my IS builds have crits to spare.

Im telling you right now the biggest balance to IS vs Clan would be to implement Light Fusion engines.
they are 75% the weight of standard and allow you to survive a ST loss.
IS assaults and Heavies would be able to take a LFE in place of a STD and give themselves anywhere from about 8tons extra to 12 tons extra.
imagine if a highlander, atlas or battle master had 10 extra tons free on their current best builds.
What horrors would we see IS pilots fielding? bare minimum we would see every IS assault fielding max rating engine more than likely they would keep the speed they have now and slap on a few extra weapons.


id take that challenge but if clan gets steamrolled does that mean you will support buffing all the other clan mechs?

I've been talking about the LFE for a while now, mostly to give people something to think about and stop crying over Clan XL engines..

[Kain Demos]

Where is the rest of our Clan tech though?

LAMS existed by the time of the invasion and it hasn't made it in-game yet.

[Metus regem]

Kain Thul, on 25 September 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

Where is the rest of our Clan tech though?

LAMS existed by the time of the invasion and it hasn't made it in-game yet.

LAMS as in Laser Anti-Missile System? Or LAMS as in Land-Air-MechS?

Land Air Mechs didn't have a place in the clans order of battle, and a few of the Stingers in the IS were actually Land Air Mechs but no-one knew, and I think it was the Dracs that were still pumping them out...

As for Laser Anti-Missile System, yea I'd love to know where it is too....

[Kain Demos]

Metus regem, on 25 September 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

LAMS as in Laser Anti-Missile System? Or LAMS as in Land-Air-MechS?

Land Air Mechs didn't have a place in the clans order of battle, and a few of the Stingers in the IS were actually Land Air Mechs but no-one knew, and I think it was the Dracs that were still pumping them out...

As for Laser Anti-Missile System, yea I'd love to know where it is too....

The "keep these ******* LRMs off me" kind.

[Metus regem]

Kain Thul, on 25 September 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

The "keep these ******* LRMs off me" kind.

So Laser Anti-Missile System then....

[IraqiWalker]

ON1-K Clan Buster

Get a bucket for all the clan tears you'll collect with this one.

Or you can go with an XL engine build if you're a good damage spreader (I'm not so good on the torso dance thingy)

ON1-K Dancer

The XL build moves at 83Kph with tweak, btw.

[Metus regem]

IraqiWalker, on 25 September 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

ON1-K Clan Buster

Get a bucket for all the clan tears you'll collect with this one.

Or you can go with an XL engine build if you're a good damage spreader (I'm not so good on the torso dance thingy)

ON1-K Dancer

The XL build moves at 83Kph with tweak, btw.

Those actually seem like a fare fight for my TBR-D V2...

I'd love to face off against those actually... might get my nose kicked in, but it'd be a hell of a ride.

[IraqiWalker]

Metus regem, on 25 September 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

Those actually seem like a fare fight for my TBR-D V2...

I'd love to face off against those actually... might get my nose kicked in, but it'd be a hell of a ride.

I was going to say the PPCs might not be the best, and then I saw the TC MK.IV in there. That T-Wolf build looks like a lot of fun. The heat might be very toasty on alpha strikes, tbh.

However, I would love to see that beast in action. It's deceptively heat efficient (78% in close range, if you always alpha the SRMs) (In comparison, my Clan Buster is at 80% heat efficiency. If I have good trigger discipline. With proper trigger discipline it can keep firing all weapons without ever overheating)

Edited by IraqiWalker, 25 September 2014 - 10:54 AM.

[Metus regem]

IraqiWalker, on 25 September 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

I was going to say the PPCs might not be the best, and then I saw the TC MK.IV in there. That T-Wolf build looks like a lot of fun. The heat might be very toasty on alpha strikes, tbh.

However, I would love to see that beast in action. It's deceptively heat efficient (78% in close range, if you always alpha the SRMs) (In comparison, my Clan Buster is at 80% heat efficiency. If I have good trigger discipline. With proper trigger discipline it can keep firing all weapons without ever overheating)

She does take good trigger discipline, and I'm usually in the 60% or so heat bracket... She's an all or nothing fighter though, and works really, really well with radar dep, in an ambush setting.

I never score lots of damage with it, but usually kills what she fights... 3 to 5 kills, 2 to 3 assists and normally in the 250-400 damage bracket.

[IraqiWalker]

Metus regem, on 25 September 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

She does take good trigger discipline, and I'm usually in the 60% or so heat bracket... She's an all or nothing fighter though, and works really, really well with radar dep, in an ambush setting.

I never score lots of damage with it, but usually kills what she fights... 3 to 5 kills, 2 to 3 assists and normally in the 250-400 damage bracket.

THAT'S the scary part. Good damage efficiency makes you a scary pilot. I'm not afraid of the guy that dealt 400 damage to get one kill. I'm scared of the guys that deal 200 damage, and get 2 kills with it.

[Mcgral18]

IraqiWalker, on 25 September 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

THAT'S the scary part. Good damage efficiency makes you a scary pilot. I'm not afraid of the guy that dealt 400 damage to get one kill. I'm scared of the guys that deal 200 damage, and get 2 kills with it.

How about 9 kills at 1200 damage WubShee can do it

Edited by Mcgral18, 25 September 2014 - 11:52 AM.

[Metus regem]

IraqiWalker, on 25 September 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

THAT'S the scary part. Good damage efficiency makes you a scary pilot. I'm not afraid of the guy that dealt 400 damage to get one kill. I'm scared of the guys that deal 200 damage, and get 2 kills with it.

My record with my Timber's since all of them are the same set-up, has been 5 kills, 2 assists and 367 damage. That was the same match I used this beast to kill a Dire Wolf from behind in one alpha strike...

It taught me, that the people that brag about getting a silly high damage score (read 1k+) are not being efficient with their damage, even if they account for 6 or 7 kills...

Mcgral18, on 25 September 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

How about 9 kills at 1200 damage WubShee can do it

but can you do it in 900 damage?