362 replies to this topic

[Brody319]

Vassago Rain, on 27 September 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

Trials already ruin many of my ordinary drops. I'd rather not see them in dropship community warfare. Bring your own toys, or don't bother.

Sorry, that's how it is.

boo hoo I have to let everyone participate. The game is already pretty jarring for new players, better just cut them off and tell them "NO!" to an entire game mode because they are new. Also this means you are better off buying 3-4 different mechs compared to buying 3 of a specific chassis and gaining XP for them. Thats pretty fair right. Experienced players get to come in, drop in any game mode, and bring a variety of specialized mechs, while new players are cut off from content and forced to buy specific mechs and have them under skilled compared to yours.

My point with the tonnage minimum is to help balance the game. It forces people to be between the min and max of the tonnage zone, meaning teams will be much much closer in power compared to if we just have a maximum. If you just set a maximum, people are going to be running mechs that get them as close to the max as possible, then the team that uses more tonnage compared to the other team has the advantage and will probably roflstomp the lighter team.

If you are gonna make me play lights/mediums, Don't see why you cant play at least 1 assault/heavy.

[Vassago Rain]

Brody319, on 27 September 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

boo hoo I have to let everyone participate. The game is already pretty jarring for new players, better just cut them off and tell them "NO!" to an entire game mode because they are new. Also this means you are better off buying 3-4 different mechs compared to buying 3 of a specific chassis and gaining XP for them. Thats pretty fair right. Experienced players get to come in, drop in any game mode, and bring a variety of specialized mechs, while new players are cut off from content and forced to buy specific mechs and have them under skilled compared to yours.

My point with the tonnage minimum is to help balance the game. It forces people to be between the min and max of the tonnage zone, meaning teams will be much much closer in power compared to if we just have a maximum. If you just set a maximum, people are going to be running mechs that get them as close to the max as possible, then the team that uses more tonnage compared to the other team has the advantage and will probably roflstomp the lighter team.

If you are gonna make me play lights/mediums, Don't see why you cant play at least 1 assault/heavy.

People already run all the good mechs, because good mechs win more than bad mechs.

35, 55, 75, and 100 tonners are obviously the main picks. You want to change this? Make the other tonnages worth bringing. Russ is already addressing this with the quirk passes on IS robots.

Edit: that whole 'muh precious content and barriers of entry?' Please stop. You're not gonna get to battle the steel jags in your trial BJ, just like you're not gonna hold a planet in CW, or walk through all the raids in world of warcraft solo. Saying you need to be allowed entry is like trying to get on the biggest, baddest ride at the amusment park. There are standards and rules.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 27 September 2014 - 10:30 AM.

[Eddrick]

Vassago Rain, on 27 September 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

This isn't the public ghetto, but the actual ladder equivalent.

I sincerly hope CW doesn't become a haven for Elites. I have no interest in partisipating in an E-Peen measuring contest.

Edited by Eddrick, 27 September 2014 - 10:30 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Eddrick, on 27 September 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

I sincerly hope CW doesn't become a haven for Elites. I have no interest in partisipating in an E-Peen measuring contest.

That's exactly what it's all about. I don't know why you thought it'd be something different.

[Eddrick]

Vassago Rain, on 27 September 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

That's exactly what it's all about. I don't know why you thought it'd be something different.

Then why not add an ELO restriction while at it?

[Brody319]

Vassago Rain, on 27 September 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

People already run all the good mechs, because good mechs win more than bad mechs.

35, 55, 75, and 100 tonners are obviously the main picks. You want to change this? Make the other tonnages worth bringing. Russ is already addressing this with the quirk passes on IS robots.

Edit: that whole 'muh precious content and barriers of entry?' Please stop. You're not gonna get to battle the steel jags in your trial BJ, just like you're not gonna hold a planet in CW, or walk through all the raids in world of warcraft solo. Saying you need to be allowed entry is like trying to get on the biggest, baddest ride at the amusment park. There are standards and rules.

4, 35 ton lights is 105 tons. They can bring 4 mechs, and still have less combined tonnage than 2 of the maximum weight mediums. the number of tonnage limit being thrown around a lot is 240. So how about the tonnage minimum be 150. you can bring 3, 35 tonner lights, but if you do that, you gotta bring at least 1, 55 ton medium or more. This helps balance the teams. You want to bring 3, 30 ton lights, fine, but you gotta bring a heavy to the match to balance it out. Do you think in real war, they would allow pilots to go in vastly under tonnage compared to the enemy? just some general being like "I could send 100,000 well prepared troops to stop their army, but I wanna see if I can do it with just 10,000. Sure they have 100,000 troops, but I think I am much better off with 1/10th of that.

[Vassago Rain]

Eddrick, on 27 September 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

Then why not add an ELO restriction while at it?

Because MWO is already a small game, and CW will be a smaller part for people with hundreds of hours devoted to building communities outside the game.

It already takes 5+ minutes to find a drop in the ghetto, and the elo does nothing to guarantee I don't get stuck carrying lances of trialmechs, and/or go up against heimdelight and 7 other LORDs.

CW isn't operating on a matchmaking system, either, but set arenas that you invade, that have already determined forces on them.

[Eddrick]

Did only the best IS Mechwarriors partisipate in the war against the Clans or was it everyone?

[Vassago Rain]

Brody319, on 27 September 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

4, 35 ton lights is 105 tons. They can bring 4 mechs, and still have less combined tonnage than 2 of the maximum weight mediums. the number of tonnage limit being thrown around a lot is 240. So how about the tonnage minimum be 150. you can bring 3, 35 tonner lights, but if you do that, you gotta bring at least 1, 55 ton medium or more. This helps balance the teams. You want to bring 3, 30 ton lights, fine, but you gotta bring a heavy to the match to balance it out. Do you think in real war, they would allow pilots to go in vastly under tonnage compared to the enemy? just some general being like "I could send 100,000 well prepared troops to stop their army, but I wanna see if I can do it with just 10,000. Sure they have 100,000 troops, but I think I am much better off with 1/10th of that.

In real war, they'd say the rule is 100 tons, but everybody would bring 200.

This is a videogame, and real war doesn't matter here. Please stop bringing the same old arguments from 2012 up.

[Eddrick]

Vassago Rain, on 27 September 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

Because MWO is already a small game, and CW will be a smaller part for people with hundreds of hours devoted to building communities outside the game.

It already takes 5+ minutes to find a drop in the ghetto, and the elo does nothing to guarantee I don't get stuck carrying lances of trialmechs, and/or go up against heimdelight and 7 other LORDs.

CW isn't operating on a matchmaking system, either, but set arenas that you invade, that have already determined forces on them.

In other MMOs with factions fighting over something. Control shifts almost constantly. Because, everyone is partisipating. Does this REALLY have to be any differant?

[Brody319]

Vassago Rain, on 27 September 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

In real war, they'd say the rule is 100 tons, but everybody would bring 200.

This is a videogame, and real war doesn't matter here. Please stop bringing the same old arguments from 2012 up.

at 100 tons, people can run 4 lights. This is a video game, but its a MULTIPLAYER<-!!! one. You have to have balance. If one team is going to bring the maximum tonnage they can, and the other team is going to have 4 people bringing 4 lights each to the fight. They are going to get destroyed. We had this problem before 3/3/3/3 match making. You would have one team get a bunch of lights and mediums, the other team got more assaults and heavies which results in them getting destroyed. This system ruins the 3/3/3/3 system, meaning we will once again have people complaining because their team was vastly under tonnage because Sonic the hedgehog couldn't bare to have to pilot a heavy, so instead he brought along his 4 locusts.

If you put in a tonnage minimum you are forcing people to play mechs they may not like, but it means the game is much more balance and fair. If the game isn't fair then people won't want to play.

[Vassago Rain]

Eddrick, on 27 September 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

In other MMOs with factions fighting over something. Control shifts almost constantly. Because, everyone is partisipating. Does this REALLY have to be any differant?

In other games, very few participate fully, and if they want to, they need to qualify through grinding raid gear, getting into guilds, and learning mechanics.

They don't try to challenge the warlord max level guys with their starting free short sword and basic pants.

[Vassago Rain]

Brody319, on 27 September 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

at 100 tons, people can run 4 lights. This is a video game, but its a MULTIPLAYER<-!!! one. You have to have balance. If one team is going to bring the maximum tonnage they can, and the other team is going to have 4 people bringing 4 lights each to the fight. They are going to get destroyed. We had this problem before 3/3/3/3 match making. You would have one team get a bunch of lights and mediums, the other team got more assaults and heavies which results in them getting destroyed. This system ruins the 3/3/3/3 system, meaning we will once again have people complaining because their team was vastly under tonnage because Sonic the hedgehog couldn't bare to have to pilot a heavy, so instead he brought along his 4 locusts.

If you put in a tonnage minimum you are forcing people to play mechs they may not like, but it means the game is much more balance and fair. If the game isn't fair then people won't want to play.

I don't know about you, but I don't really own any lights. The only heavy mechs I take out are my ancient catapults. They're all camo'd and pretty.

I'm not gonna buy a bunch of weaksauce lights so I can play the CW that I've been promised for two years, and no one else will, either. Forcing one of each also strains the precious new players everybody's worried about, because they don't have masteries in even ONE class, let alone all four.

[Brody319]

Vassago Rain, on 27 September 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

I don't know about you, but I don't really own any lights. The only heavy mechs I take out are my ancient catapults. They're all camo'd and pretty.

I'm not gonna buy a bunch of weaksauce lights so I can play the CW that I've been promised for two years, and no one else will, either. Forcing one of each also strains the precious new players everybody's worried about, because they don't have masteries in even ONE class, let alone all four.

I want to play heavier mechs. I got 3 timber wolves and 3 catapults I love and want to play. But with a weight maximum like they are proposing, it means I have to play lights in order to drop my heavy mechs. I'm saying a tonnage minimum would mean light players have to play more heavies and assaults. and bring each team closer to having the same tonnages allowing the game to be more balanced.

[Karamarka]

Brody319, on 27 September 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

boo hoo I have to let everyone participate. The game is already pretty jarring for new players, better just cut them off and tell them "NO!" to an entire game mode because they are new. Also this means you are better off buying 3-4 different mechs compared to buying 3 of a specific chassis and gaining XP for them. Thats pretty fair right. Experienced players get to come in, drop in any game mode, and bring a variety of specialized mechs, while new players are cut off from content and forced to buy specific mechs and have them under skilled compared to yours.

My point with the tonnage minimum is to help balance the game. It forces people to be between the min and max of the tonnage zone, meaning teams will be much much closer in power compared to if we just have a maximum. If you just set a maximum, people are going to be running mechs that get them as close to the max as possible, then the team that uses more tonnage compared to the other team has the advantage and will probably roflstomp the lighter team.

If you are gonna make me play lights/mediums, Don't see why you cant play at least 1 assault/heavy.

Just a interesting question about trials, (im not for or against) but how can a mercenary be given trials. Weird

[Eddrick]

Vassago Rain, on 27 September 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

In other games, very few participate fully, and if they want to, they need to qualify through grinding raid gear, getting into guilds, and learning mechanics.

They don't try to challenge the warlord max level guys with their starting free short sword and basic pants.

That's mostly the Guilds. They don't want anyone holding the raid back.

Some and the less serious Guilds will take what they have in the Guild and see if they can win. It doesn't always work. But, they try. I have partisipated in Raids with nowhere near max gear. We won some, we lost some. But, we still tried.

Later, a tool to help PUGs and Raid leader fill empty slots was added.

Unrestricted Faction fights over something, also exist. Some example: Faction based fights over entry to the Vault of Archeron in World of Warcraft. None-instanced Faction based fights over castles in Aion's Abyss. People attempting to take over a capital city generaly needed every possible person they could get (One Raiding party against 1/2 a server is not a fight anyone can win).

Edited by Eddrick, 27 September 2014 - 11:26 AM.

[Brody319]

Karamarka, on 27 September 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

Just a interesting question about trials, (im not for or against) but how can a mercenary be given trials. Weird

"I'll pay you to protect my mining facility. To make sure you got the right equipment I will let you borrow a mech"

[Hoax415]

Bloody go home you are drunk.

FACT:
1/1/1/1 no weight limits is more restrictive than any four mechs, max 240 tons. Doubly so when we consider that 1/1/1/1 really is code for 35/55/75/100 with a few exceptions.

Russ says we can lift the 1/1/1/1 restriction and switch to a less restrictive system, which also has a lot of added benefits.

Ever since then you are just crying and trying to punish these "light pilots" that you hate so much because you are apparently insane.

You can bring more heavier hardware than you could before under 1/1/1/1. You can now run 3 Catapults in a 65+65+65+45 or +40 config and you won't even have to take a light mech. You can run 75+75+50+45 once the Fenris is out. Or you can run TBR/TBR/SCR plus any clan light mech. You have more freedom now to pilot what you want than you did.

But instead of being happy about it you are angry and bitter because someone else might be more happy?

Edited by Hoax415, 27 September 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[Eddrick]

Brody319, on 27 September 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

&quot;I'll pay you to protect my mining facility. To make sure you got the right equipment I will let you borrow a mech&quot;

That basicaly, sums up the way it works. If the pilot had lost their previous Mech for some reason and couldn't afford another. They had no choice but to go that route.

We would see a lot of this happen if FULL Repair and Rearm was in the game.

[Brody319]

Hoax415, on 27 September 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

Bloody go home you are drunk.

FACT:
1/1/1/1 no weight limits is more restrictive than any four mechs, max 240 tons. Doubly so when we consider that 1/1/1/1 really is code for 35/55/75/100 with a few exceptions.

Russ says we can lift the 1/1/1/1 restriction and switch to a less restrictive system, which also has a lot of added benefits.

Ever since then you are just crying and trying to punish these "light pilots" that you hate so much because you are apparently insane.

You can bring more heavier hardware than you could before under 1/1/1/1. You can now run 3 Catapults in a 65+65+65+45 or +40 config and you won't even have to take a light mech. You can run 75+75+50+45 once the Fenris is out. Or you can run TBR/TBR/SCR plus any clan light mech. You have more freedom now to pilot what you want than you did.

But instead of being happy about it you are angry and bitter because someone else might be more happy?

Its a balancing thing. Before the release of the current 3/3/3/3 system, we had teams with lighter mechs being dominated by heavier mechs. When you see your team has 3 people running 4 lights and you get ripped up because the other team decided to properly manage their weight. This also helps prevent trollish builds like 4 ECM Spiders. At 150, you can run 3 lights, but you gotta bring a heavier mech. IF this is a war, do you think they will want their soldiers to go in under prepared for what the enemy brings?
From a gameplay stand point its perfectly fair. You have to run a heavy, but get to gain XP for all 3 of your light variants in one match. While I, running heavier mechs, has to play more matches to get the same XP. not being able to run 3 timber wolves in one match means I have to swap out between games.
I'm perfectly fine with a tonnage limit, the problem is, it means I have to run 2 heavies and 2 lights to be under the weight limit, while light players can run 4 of anything they want, or medium players can run 4 of anything they want and still be under the limit. While Assault players and Heavy players are punished. At 100 tons, an assault player can bring 1 assault mech. if they bring 2, they would have to run 2 lights at 20 tons, and none exist yet. At 1/1/1/1 at least EVERYONE has to play some mechs they don't like, rather than the tonnage system that only punishes assault and heavy players.