349 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

CyclonerM, on 02 December 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

I, for one, will be using it.I wish we had all our Dire Wolves and maybe Warhawks replaced by Gargoyles in our dropdecks. Finally, the day will come when assaults are not left behind anymore and a fast company of 12 'Mechs can move as a single at 81+ KPH.

Clan mechs were designed "as slow as they are*" for a reason. That reason was to walk together at the same speed, and better support each other.

*Slow by MW:O standard when it comes to mechs, meta, and their "supposed" speeds.

[Joanna Conners]

SoHxPaladin, on 02 December 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

CYCLONER:

while i completely understand that point, the lack of alpha strike firepower will make most players feel "underpowered"
that is why i make such a statment

You're probably right, but I'm willing to bet the average Gargoyle will have a better pilot than the average Dire Wolf and be a stronger threat.

[CyclonerM]

SoHxPaladin, on 02 December 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

CYCLONER:

while i completely understand that point, the lack of alpha strike firepower will make most players feel "underpowered"
that is why i make such a statment

It is obvious that it lacks firepower, but firepower should not be the only thing that matters in this game, quineg?

Tesunie, on 02 December 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

Clan mechs were designed "as slow as they are*" for a reason. That reason was to walk together at the same speed, and better support each other.

*Slow by MW:O standard when it comes to mechs, meta, and their "supposed" speeds.

"Slow"? Not sure if you are sarcastic. I wonder because i have seen many people complaining in the past about the "slow" Clan 'Mechs..

I can understand the Clan lights, they are slower but they have different roles.

I might understand the Nova, as my Hunchback is slightly faster than my Nova without speed tweak, but it compensates this lack with a lot of JJs. The two other Clan mediums currently in-game are considerably faster than my mediums and the average mediums i see, unless you consider those cases of fast 'Mechs like the Cicada (which is very comparable to the Ice Ferret) or over-engined Centurions etc.

I do not understand heavies. Even with a big XL engine, not all the IS heavies can go much faster than 81 KPH without speed tweak. Some, like the Thunderbolt and Orion, are much slower. I heard in closed beta it was the norm for a Hunchback to go at 64 KPH..

I can understand assaults, but not that much. I am not very familiar with them as i hate piloting them, but i do not think the fastest Atlases, Highlanders or Victors are so much faster than a Warhawk .. And the Dire Wolf is as slow as it should be. I think many IS assaults are only slightly faster than it. Do you want to talk about the Gargoyle?

[Noesis]

[alanely]

MEP MEP HUG TIME!!!

[Joanna Conners]

CyclonerM, on 03 December 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

It is obvious that it lacks firepower, but firepower should not be the only thing that matters in this game, quineg?

"Slow"? Not sure if you are sarcastic. I wonder because i have seen many people complaining in the past about the "slow" Clan 'Mechs..

I can understand the Clan lights, they are slower but they have different roles.

I might understand the Nova, as my Hunchback is slightly faster than my Nova without speed tweak, but it compensates this lack with a lot of JJs. The two other Clan mediums currently in-game are considerably faster than my mediums and the average mediums i see, unless you consider those cases of fast 'Mechs like the Cicada (which is very comparable to the Ice Ferret) or over-engined Centurions etc.

I do not understand heavies. Even with a big XL engine, not all the IS heavies can go much faster than 81 KPH without speed tweak. Some, like the Thunderbolt and Orion, are much slower. I heard in closed beta it was the norm for a Hunchback to go at 64 KPH..

I can understand assaults, but not that much. I am not very familiar with them as i hate piloting them, but i do not think the fastest Atlases, Highlanders or Victors are so much faster than a Warhawk .. And the Dire Wolf is as slow as it should be. I think many IS assaults are only slightly faster than it. Do you want to talk about the Gargoyle?

Factory Atlas runs the same speed as the Dire Wolf.

[Tesunie]

CyclonerM, on 03 December 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

It is obvious that it lacks firepower, but firepower should not be the only thing that matters in this game, quineg?

"Slow"? Not sure if you are sarcastic. I wonder because i have seen many people complaining in the past about the "slow" Clan 'Mechs..

Not sarcastic. I was mostly referring to people who have complained about how "slow" the clan light and the Nova was. They say it as a detriment, instead of an aid to stick with the team and encourage better teamwork. Not everyone saw the Nova's JJs as a boon, for some reason...

[Crockdaddy]

Atlas any variant can go toe to toe with a Dire Wolf ... just a matter of how far away you are when you start the shooting engagement.

Less than 300 meters ... 1v1 ... Atlas can and should win if both pilots are similar skill (Atlas burst fire and twist as it approaches the Dire Wolf). Beyond 300 ... Atlas is usually screwed without cover.

Also ... depends a bit on type of Dire ... Some dakkas are just too much to roll into with with pro level toros twisting Atlas pilots.

My thoughts are just based on experience and generalizations and assuming similar pilot skill. In each case the Atlass would be an AC20 / SRM brawler. There isn't any reasonable way an Atlas can face a long range Dire Wolf.

[SoHxPaladin]

CyclonerM, on 03 December 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

It is obvious that it lacks firepower, but firepower should not be the only thing that matters in this game, quineg?

with the way a majority of players pilot their mechs, it is (alpha power) what it boils down to for them. will be interesting to see the mech in game.

[Kain Demos]

Running the "D" with the "A" 4 energy arm will give 8 energy hardpoints with the nice touch of two being in the CT--useful if you lose your arms.

Running the Prime with both the 4 energy arm and one of the two energy arms will give 7 energy hardpoints.

Medium lasers don't weigh much but ghost eat will stop you from alpha striking with 7 or 8. I'm pretty sure we will be able to run max armor with a 7-8 C-ERML build (or maybe even mix in some C-MPL) and enough heat sinks to be usable as long as they are fired in two groups.

From what I can see it looks like 7 C-ERMLs will be possible with max armor and 27 DHS.

[Widowmaker1981]

Kain Thul, on 03 December 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

From what I can see it looks like 7 C-ERMLs will be possible with max armor and 27 DHS.

How is that a good build? the 65 ton Hellbringer can run 7 ERML with 29 DHS and ECM, running at the same speed....

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 04 December 2014 - 06:39 AM.

[Patzer]

The Dire Wolf is nasty mech but it think it comes down to the pilots abilities while using the Gargoyle that will determine the out come of the Gargoyle dethroning the Dire wolf.

[Phantom360]

Quote

How is that a good build? the 65 ton Hellbringer can run 7 ERML with 29 DHS and ECM, running at the same speed....

Ah but the Hellbringer is a heavy glass cannon built to dish the damage out but not take it.
Perhaps we could see the Gargoyle as a type of assault recon, providing support to light scouts and aiding ECM mechs in hit and run raids on the enemies flanks?.

Quote

The Dire Wolf is nasty mech but it think it comes down to the pilots abilities while using the Gargoyle that will determine the out come of the Gargoyle dethroning the Dire wolf.

Exactly. perhaps we shall see this mech being piloted more by people who have more experience in light-to-light medium scout mechs.

Edited by Phantom360, 04 December 2014 - 07:22 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Phantom360, on 04 December 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

Ah but the Hellbringer is a heavy glass cannon built to dish the damage out but not take it.
Perhaps we could see the Gargoyle as a type of assault recon, providing support to light scouts and aiding ECM mechs in hit and run raids on the enemies flanks?.

Its just an unfortunate commentary on why its a bad idea to install absurdly large engines into mechs to make them move faster than their weight class allows for.
The gargoyle is using 14.5 tons more than the hellbringer JUST on the engine, in order to move at EXACTLY the same speed, its internal structure is 1.5 tons heavier, so all else being equal it has 1 ton LESS than a mech 15 tons lighter to spend on other gear. this is very inefficient, obviously. In a world where total weight matters (CW drop decks) the Gargoyle will have no place.. (unless its hitboxes are godly maybe) simply because a lighter mech does everything it does and more.

Assaults should be slow(ish) and heavily armed, anything else is silly.

Having said that the Gargoyle wont be DOA or any such nonsense, it will be playable, just very sub-optimal.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 04 December 2014 - 07:36 AM.

[Patzer]

While I am not the best player I will give it a chance. Mediocre or excellent we will see.

[Kain Demos]

Widowmaker1981, on 04 December 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

How is that a good build? the 65 ton Hellbringer can run 7 ERML with 29 DHS and ECM, running at the same speed....

100 more armor.

[Widowmaker1981]

Kain Thul, on 04 December 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

100 more armor.

you mean 16 more armour (in the CT, the only place that really matters), but that has to contest with a larger profile, likely with a worse movement archetype due to it being an assault not a heavy. pretty much moot tbh.

[Patzer]

If you are damaged bad and it's in good shape it wil knock you on your ass in a close up fight..depending on weapons configuration...let's see.

[Tesunie]

Widowmaker1981, on 04 December 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

Kain Thul, on 04 December 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

You each present very good, and correct, points to the table. Thus, I think this mech should be deemed (as would be appropriate) a "See how it is when it gets here" mech. It's speed may end up being it's saving grace. On the flip side, it's lack of pod space may be it's downfall.

I see this mech being a design that wont fit into everyone's skill set and play style preference. But I do see it being very lethal in the right hands and with the right skill set.

Overall, I think this mech will be strongly dependent upon who is at the controls. (Heck, to be honest here, most of the "tier 5" IS mechs are the mechs I preform best in...)

[Grantham Besat]

You know it just clicked in my head that the Executioner will have the same issues. After the hard wired jjs and 380xl with masc your looking at 23 tons of pod space maybe 24. Thats with stock armor which is only 13.5 tons. It will be another energy centric set of hard points which are mostly low slung in arm mounts.

Edited by Grantham Besat, 05 December 2014 - 01:08 AM.