But it would also bring in all the Epeeners from other games who avoid this one like the plague because its Quake 3 Instagib.
4
Cof/unpredictable Randomness As A Fix For High Alphas/spike Damage? Who Needs It?!?
Started by Pht, Sep 27 2014 10:17 AM
161 replies to this topic
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:15 AM
KraftySOT, on 29 September 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:
The upper gun can also only traverse up and down and the entire turret rotates.
Note the weapons on mounts^
^ no way its moving on a mount
Pintlemount rules
http://battletech.rp...aponname=Pintle
Turret rules
http://battletech.rp...elected_eqid=52
Trying to find the ones that are newish that allow those to be on mechs, to make sure the Maraduer and such gets its pintle mounts.
Marauder 2 dorsal gun seems to be able to move at least a little sideways. But, there wouldn't be much reason to give it the full ability to move like a turret, without a weapon camera on it.
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:24 AM
I mean look at the queues....wheres the lights and mediums?
Same place as all the PDWs in battlefield 4. Theyre sittin on a shelf while people snipe. Theyre useless is a wide open environment where every weapon is more accurate than yours. They arent fun to use because you just die, using them. Everyone gravitates towards the best stuff.
Whats hilarious though, is that our weapons are even more accurate that contemporary titles, like Hawken, Heavy Gear, Titanfall, or Planetside.
Those guys come here, load up a mech, and EXPECT their weapons to be less accurate...when they fire, theyre dismayed, and when they get killed, they log off, because its not immersive for a modern game, especially one about giant robots, and its a fundamental break in the expectation vs reality paradigm they bring to the game from other games.
When you move in a game, your accuracy reflects that, even in tank and aircraft games, other mech games, sci fi games...its expected for an FPS.
When you dont see that...its hard to overcome. You instantly know, well thats why I got one shot killed, because weapons are so accurate...and unless thats your schtick...you log off in frustration.
I mean Quake 3 instagib was popular...not as popular as DM, but still...but its only popular to the people who want to do that. Everyone else just walks away.
And thats a fundamental issue with this game..youve got two customer bases...the TT people and IP lovers...and the instagibbers.
Youre never, ever, ever, going to convince someone who plays an FPS like the other FPSs out there, to play this because of it.
Same place as all the PDWs in battlefield 4. Theyre sittin on a shelf while people snipe. Theyre useless is a wide open environment where every weapon is more accurate than yours. They arent fun to use because you just die, using them. Everyone gravitates towards the best stuff.
Whats hilarious though, is that our weapons are even more accurate that contemporary titles, like Hawken, Heavy Gear, Titanfall, or Planetside.
Those guys come here, load up a mech, and EXPECT their weapons to be less accurate...when they fire, theyre dismayed, and when they get killed, they log off, because its not immersive for a modern game, especially one about giant robots, and its a fundamental break in the expectation vs reality paradigm they bring to the game from other games.
When you move in a game, your accuracy reflects that, even in tank and aircraft games, other mech games, sci fi games...its expected for an FPS.
When you dont see that...its hard to overcome. You instantly know, well thats why I got one shot killed, because weapons are so accurate...and unless thats your schtick...you log off in frustration.
I mean Quake 3 instagib was popular...not as popular as DM, but still...but its only popular to the people who want to do that. Everyone else just walks away.
And thats a fundamental issue with this game..youve got two customer bases...the TT people and IP lovers...and the instagibbers.
Youre never, ever, ever, going to convince someone who plays an FPS like the other FPSs out there, to play this because of it.
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:29 AM
Eddrick, on 29 September 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:
Marauder 2 dorsal gun seems to be able to move at least a little sideways. But, there wouldn't be much reason to give it the full ability to move like a turret, without a weapon camera on it.
Rear firing weapons are pretty common in Btech, and I think the swivel mount can fire backwards...I have no idea...I do know t has a Search Light.
Since I think the Marauder can 'flip arms' it would make sense that the mounted cannon could traverse to the rear arc.
Ive seen house rules do all sorts of crazy things with the lore.
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:33 AM
Also I dont remember the Jager, Rifleman, or any other arm flippers having issues firing at stuff behind them...though I seem to recall it being on issue on the Archer and Centurion...
But its been a while since ive played the TT native to a TT and the rules change so damned often.
Now its Megamek...and while they try and label which rule is from what...ive been corrected a few times here since ive been doing Megamek so much. Its hard to remember whats a house rule, whats MW RPG, whats canon, whats fluff, and whats the new rules vs CBT.
But its been a while since ive played the TT native to a TT and the rules change so damned often.
Now its Megamek...and while they try and label which rule is from what...ive been corrected a few times here since ive been doing Megamek so much. Its hard to remember whats a house rule, whats MW RPG, whats canon, whats fluff, and whats the new rules vs CBT.
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:33 AM
KraftySOT, on 29 September 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:
I mean look at the queues....wheres the lights and mediums?
Same place as all the PDWs in battlefield 4. Theyre sittin on a shelf while people snipe. Theyre useless is a wide open environment where every weapon is more accurate than yours. They arent fun to use because you just die, using them. Everyone gravitates towards the best stuff.
Whats hilarious though, is that our weapons are even more accurate that contemporary titles, like Hawken, Heavy Gear, Titanfall, or Planetside.
Those guys come here, load up a mech, and EXPECT their weapons to be less accurate...when they fire, theyre dismayed, and when they get killed, they log off, because its not immersive for a modern game, especially one about giant robots, and its a fundamental break in the expectation vs reality paradigm they bring to the game from other games.
When you move in a game, your accuracy reflects that, even in tank and aircraft games, other mech games, sci fi games...its expected for an FPS.
When you dont see that...its hard to overcome. You instantly know, well thats why I got one shot killed, because weapons are so accurate...and unless thats your schtick...you log off in frustration.
I mean Quake 3 instagib was popular...not as popular as DM, but still...but its only popular to the people who want to do that. Everyone else just walks away.
And thats a fundamental issue with this game..youve got two customer bases...the TT people and IP lovers...and the instagibbers.
Youre never, ever, ever, going to convince someone who plays an FPS like the other FPSs out there, to play this because of it.
Same place as all the PDWs in battlefield 4. Theyre sittin on a shelf while people snipe. Theyre useless is a wide open environment where every weapon is more accurate than yours. They arent fun to use because you just die, using them. Everyone gravitates towards the best stuff.
Whats hilarious though, is that our weapons are even more accurate that contemporary titles, like Hawken, Heavy Gear, Titanfall, or Planetside.
Those guys come here, load up a mech, and EXPECT their weapons to be less accurate...when they fire, theyre dismayed, and when they get killed, they log off, because its not immersive for a modern game, especially one about giant robots, and its a fundamental break in the expectation vs reality paradigm they bring to the game from other games.
When you move in a game, your accuracy reflects that, even in tank and aircraft games, other mech games, sci fi games...its expected for an FPS.
When you dont see that...its hard to overcome. You instantly know, well thats why I got one shot killed, because weapons are so accurate...and unless thats your schtick...you log off in frustration.
I mean Quake 3 instagib was popular...not as popular as DM, but still...but its only popular to the people who want to do that. Everyone else just walks away.
And thats a fundamental issue with this game..youve got two customer bases...the TT people and IP lovers...and the instagibbers.
Youre never, ever, ever, going to convince someone who plays an FPS like the other FPSs out there, to play this because of it.
Well said. Pin point convergence appeals to a specific segment and it can be detrimental to walk away from the realism thats present in many other FPS. IF i wasn't an IP fan id have been gone years ago.
I under stand peoples fear of a WOT COF... but how successful is WOT. It drives me nuts when i know PGI can deliver a better system/game play experience then WOT but with mechs.... Its just PGI is trying to hard to not be or have the WOT circle of error probable where 95 or 100% of your shots will land: aka the COF.
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:38 AM
Exactly, the IP is all that keeps me here.
And it doesnt have to a WOT COF thing, it just has to be different than it is. Theres plenty of ways to spread out the fire without using random X,Y coords, or "cone of fire" stuff, and ive seen alot of great examples.
I think simple is the best though.
And I dont think changing unrelated aspects (heat, weapons groups, how many weapons in a group, jump jets) are the way to attain what I think, all of us but the instagibbers want. Which is a more well thought out approach to accuracy which leads to slightly slower more tactical gameplay, and less of the "I was just vaporized instantly at 700m" aspect.
Thats cool in a game with respawning and fast paced action.
If you jump out of your spawn in Battlefield 4 and get sniped and die...so what, 8 seconds later youre back and fighting.
In MWO this is unacceptable to everyone who either doesnt like instagib, or doesnt love the TT so much theyll put up with just about anything.
And it doesnt have to a WOT COF thing, it just has to be different than it is. Theres plenty of ways to spread out the fire without using random X,Y coords, or "cone of fire" stuff, and ive seen alot of great examples.
I think simple is the best though.
And I dont think changing unrelated aspects (heat, weapons groups, how many weapons in a group, jump jets) are the way to attain what I think, all of us but the instagibbers want. Which is a more well thought out approach to accuracy which leads to slightly slower more tactical gameplay, and less of the "I was just vaporized instantly at 700m" aspect.
Thats cool in a game with respawning and fast paced action.
If you jump out of your spawn in Battlefield 4 and get sniped and die...so what, 8 seconds later youre back and fighting.
In MWO this is unacceptable to everyone who either doesnt like instagib, or doesnt love the TT so much theyll put up with just about anything.
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:38 AM
Zyllos, on 29 September 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:
Please give some talking points behind why this is a nerf to Lights and Mediums?
Is it that Lights and Mediums will spread damage to a Heavy and Assault mech, making them last much longer?
Is it that Lights and Mediums can't move maximum speed without spreading damage?
Need more than "Bad idea!", please.
Both of those. Also add in reinforcing camping, promoting high alpha & high armor mechs, with a dash of Dashi, and a side of nerfed brawling. Lights and mediums not having the life/firepower needed to trade will be for dessert.
If you want to see what your idea is like in practice. Get a Streak mech. Take it into the testing grounds. Shoot at an atlas. That would be your lights and mediums. To see how the dire wolf is effected........well.....I guess just play a match in a dire wolf.
Edited by 3rdworld, 29 September 2014 - 11:42 AM.
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:45 AM
Honestly, I wouldn't expect weapons on a Mech to be able to move in their mounts. Even if they could. The movement would be very limited. Because, something would get in the way.
However, I would expect each Arm to have at least a full 135 degree range of motion. Which, would requier the crosshairs to seperate. But, that would only make weapons on the two Arms converging a little more tricky. Which, is a good thing.
However, I would expect each Arm to have at least a full 135 degree range of motion. Which, would requier the crosshairs to seperate. But, that would only make weapons on the two Arms converging a little more tricky. Which, is a good thing.
Edited by Eddrick, 29 September 2014 - 11:48 AM.
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 11:57 AM
KraftySOT, on 29 September 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:
In MWO this is unacceptable to everyone who either doesn't like instagib, or doesn't love the TT so much theyll put up with just about anything.
This thread is about MWO 2.0. The produce design specs are open for an alternate aiming system. I understand PGI's aversion to change anything at this point and risk looseing customers. but the long term health of the game needs a huge player base. that means an aiming systems that appeals to the majority of people. I know a system that allows for instant min max kill is fun for some not its not for me, unless its a shot gun to the face.
If it's simply a L2P or a lack of skill situation... how long are those people going to stay... its why i never played any of the other MW multiplayer games. your dead in seconds.... not fun. how long a person plays i'm sure has an affect on how much money they spend.
So what other non COF systems would people like to see. i would want a COF but with a pilot skill tree to off set the COF and allow a player to regain the current level of accuracy... best of both worlds.
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 12:08 PM
I think the convergence being removed from torsos, or a convergence setting in the mechlab are great ideas.
I also liked the idea that someone had where each weapon had its own little crosshair and when you aimed at something that could be damaged, they converged on that over a few seconds. Like World of Tanks, but you could tell where your individual shots would go before they fully 'locked on'. I think PGI said that idea was impossible though.
You could also just increase the converge time...that Pin Point module doesnt even do anything currently since they messed with this.
Clan mechs seem to have a much more "fluid" crosshair for their torso weapons, you could expand that a little and let it have "inertia" so that twisting around the cross hair would 'over aim' and have to settle back. Could apply it with various quirks to IS mechs as well.
Another good idea I heard was a "pattern" you set in the mechlab, so whenever you alpha'd, the "COF" would be the pattern you took. Kind of like specialized shotgun loads, cluster munitions, how artillery works, or even bombers back in the day of bomb bays and free fall bombs. You could set a pre determined pattern. Whenever you didnt alpha it would just be like normal.
When you did it would be in an X, O, T, +, I, or whatever you picked.
And last but not least, I liked the idea someone had about the mech weapons being tied to the animations of the mechs.
The mechs already bounce up and down alot when they move, having the crosshair move with them helps. Like in any other FPS when youre jumping or running, the crosshair is bouncing all over the place.
That would help.
I also liked the idea that someone had where each weapon had its own little crosshair and when you aimed at something that could be damaged, they converged on that over a few seconds. Like World of Tanks, but you could tell where your individual shots would go before they fully 'locked on'. I think PGI said that idea was impossible though.
You could also just increase the converge time...that Pin Point module doesnt even do anything currently since they messed with this.
Clan mechs seem to have a much more "fluid" crosshair for their torso weapons, you could expand that a little and let it have "inertia" so that twisting around the cross hair would 'over aim' and have to settle back. Could apply it with various quirks to IS mechs as well.
Another good idea I heard was a "pattern" you set in the mechlab, so whenever you alpha'd, the "COF" would be the pattern you took. Kind of like specialized shotgun loads, cluster munitions, how artillery works, or even bombers back in the day of bomb bays and free fall bombs. You could set a pre determined pattern. Whenever you didnt alpha it would just be like normal.
When you did it would be in an X, O, T, +, I, or whatever you picked.
And last but not least, I liked the idea someone had about the mech weapons being tied to the animations of the mechs.
The mechs already bounce up and down alot when they move, having the crosshair move with them helps. Like in any other FPS when youre jumping or running, the crosshair is bouncing all over the place.
That would help.
Edited by KraftySOT, 29 September 2014 - 12:10 PM.
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 12:16 PM
Also I think a single 1,000m convergence for all weapons would be very easy to do, and just completely remove dynamic convergence altogether. Since most weapons dont even go that far, at less than that range, you wont be getting a pinpoint hit, but a spread based on your own mounts. Its not random at all. It will always go the exact same place no matter what youre aiming at.
Saves you on resources too since youre not dynamically converging anymore.
But all those ideas imho are legit.
Id do a COF personally but I realize not everyone wants that, and it requires alot of coding to accomplish.
What sucks though is that they licensed the crysis engine with the scripts for COF included...they had to alter those to get what we have now. And over the past two years it looks like theyve played around with it to no avail.
Saves you on resources too since youre not dynamically converging anymore.
But all those ideas imho are legit.
Id do a COF personally but I realize not everyone wants that, and it requires alot of coding to accomplish.
What sucks though is that they licensed the crysis engine with the scripts for COF included...they had to alter those to get what we have now. And over the past two years it looks like theyve played around with it to no avail.
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 12:21 PM
KraftySOT, on 29 September 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:
Not according to Sarna or the books.
WTH? I post excerpts of the Tech Manual - with page references - and you say it's not so?
KraftySOT, on 29 September 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:
The neurohelmet can both send and receive, and you can actually feel where your extremities (the mechs arms and legs) are, and have input into those processes, depending on your ability or a surgical implant or a direct link (though only one person that anyone knows of, actually attached it to the brain stem)
There's no "surgical implants". Please read - read! - the following Tech Manual excerpts:
(Tech Manual, p. 41)
(Tech Manual, p. 43)
Key quote: "The key to remember here is that current neurohelmets are not good enough to deliver real-time “mind reading” necessary for direct control of a BattleMech’s movements."
KraftySOT, on 29 September 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:
Aiming isnt a matter of moving a crosshair (a crosshair thats attached to torso movement) with a joystick onto the target.
The Tech Manual disagrees:
(Tech Manual, p. 40)
Key quote, paragraph one: "it’s not because the MechWarrior links directly with the BattleMech through the neurohelmet. Leave that notion to the cheap holovids. No, this simplicity is because the BattleMech itself does most of the work."
Paragraph two: "Yes, despite all the arms and adjustable guns on a ’Mech, you just point and click to fire."
KraftySOT, on 29 September 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:
How else would you trip a mech? Or grapple? Or fist fight? Or use a chainsaw or a hatchet? Load a piece of rebar into your gauss rifle?
See the Tech Manual excerpt about controls above, especially paragraphs 4-6.
KraftySOT, on 29 September 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:
And by "control stick"
They basically mean a wii remote.
They basically mean a wii remote.
Again, see the Tech Manual excerpts about controls. It's a physical joystick-type control.
KraftySOT, on 29 September 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:
Activision made you soft St Jobe 
Hardly. They were still doing Atari 2600 and Infocom text adventures when I started playing BattleTech.
KraftySOT, on 29 September 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:
I still love your posts and think youre great, I just disagree.
You're perfectly welcome to disagree, just not on the facts of the lore.
KraftySOT, on 29 September 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:
And notice the helms dont even have visors.
Theres no HUD.
Its the helmet sending that information straight to your brain. Youre seeing the hud in your eye, via the transmissions from the helmet. Its not like a modern apache helicopter where the hud is on a visor, and its not like Korea or Vietnam in a fighter plane where the hud is on a piece of glass infront of your optical sight.
Theres no HUD.
Its the helmet sending that information straight to your brain. Youre seeing the hud in your eye, via the transmissions from the helmet. Its not like a modern apache helicopter where the hud is on a visor, and its not like Korea or Vietnam in a fighter plane where the hud is on a piece of glass infront of your optical sight.
Again, the Tech Manual disagrees; you're not seeing the HUD "in your eye"; it's either a "dashboard display" or displayed on the Neurohelmet visor:
(Tech Manual, pp. 40-41)
Key quote: "In addition to dashboard displays, neurohelmets have often incorporated some displays".
I don't know whether you've made up your own version of the tech, or if you're mixing it up with some other IP, but what you're describing is most certainly not BattleTech - an IP well-known to be low-tech dark and gritty sci-fi, not hi-tech with wetjacks, cybernetic interfaces, and shiny sleek white plastic.
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 12:28 PM
stjobe, on 29 September 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:
WTH? I post excerpts of the Tech Manual - with page references - and you say it's not so?
There's no "surgical implants". Please read - read! - the following Tech Manual excerpts:
(Tech Manual, p. 41)
(Tech Manual, p. 43)
Key quote: "The key to remember here is that current neurohelmets are not good enough to deliver real-time “mind reading” necessary for direct control of a BattleMech’s movements."
The Tech Manual disagrees:
(Tech Manual, p. 40)
Key quote, paragraph one: "it’s not because the MechWarrior links directly with the BattleMech through the neurohelmet. Leave that notion to the cheap holovids. No, this simplicity is because the BattleMech itself does most of the work."
Paragraph two: "Yes, despite all the arms and adjustable guns on a ’Mech, you just point and click to fire."
See the Tech Manual excerpt about controls above, especially paragraphs 4-6.
Again, see the Tech Manual excerpts about controls. It's a physical joystick-type control.
Hardly. They were still doing Atari 2600 and Infocom text adventures when I started playing BattleTech.
You're perfectly welcome to disagree, just not on the facts of the lore.
Again, the Tech Manual disagrees; you're not seeing the HUD "in your eye"; it's either a "dashboard display" or displayed on the Neurohelmet visor:
(Tech Manual, pp. 40-41)
Key quote: "In addition to dashboard displays, neurohelmets have often incorporated some displays".
I don't know whether you've made up your own version of the tech, or if you're mixing it up with some other IP, but what you're describing is most certainly not BattleTech - an IP well-known to be low-tech dark and gritty sci-fi, not hi-tech with wetjacks, cybernetic interfaces, and shiny sleek white plastic.
There's no "surgical implants". Please read - read! - the following Tech Manual excerpts:
(Tech Manual, p. 41)
(Tech Manual, p. 43)
Key quote: "The key to remember here is that current neurohelmets are not good enough to deliver real-time “mind reading” necessary for direct control of a BattleMech’s movements."
The Tech Manual disagrees:
(Tech Manual, p. 40)
Key quote, paragraph one: "it’s not because the MechWarrior links directly with the BattleMech through the neurohelmet. Leave that notion to the cheap holovids. No, this simplicity is because the BattleMech itself does most of the work."
Paragraph two: "Yes, despite all the arms and adjustable guns on a ’Mech, you just point and click to fire."
See the Tech Manual excerpt about controls above, especially paragraphs 4-6.
Again, see the Tech Manual excerpts about controls. It's a physical joystick-type control.
Hardly. They were still doing Atari 2600 and Infocom text adventures when I started playing BattleTech.
You're perfectly welcome to disagree, just not on the facts of the lore.
Again, the Tech Manual disagrees; you're not seeing the HUD "in your eye"; it's either a "dashboard display" or displayed on the Neurohelmet visor:
(Tech Manual, pp. 40-41)
Key quote: "In addition to dashboard displays, neurohelmets have often incorporated some displays".
I don't know whether you've made up your own version of the tech, or if you're mixing it up with some other IP, but what you're describing is most certainly not BattleTech - an IP well-known to be low-tech dark and gritty sci-fi, not hi-tech with wetjacks, cybernetic interfaces, and shiny sleek white plastic.
http://www.sarna.net...nhanced_Imaging
http://www.sarna.net..._Neural_Implant
Bionics[color=#555555][[/color]edit[color=#555555]][/color]
[color=#252525]
Neural engineering, particularly in the form brain-computer interfaces, is not uncommon in the BattleTech universe. Its principal application is the "neurohelmet", a device used in nearly all BattleMechs that gives the 'Mech's pilot the ability to control some aspects of the machine's behavior simply by thought. The neurohelmet provides balance information to the 'Mech to assist in walking and maneuvering. It also acts as a security device, limiting access to authorized users via alpha brain wave pattern recognition (many BattleMechs mentioned in the novels also incorporate more conventional security measures such as voice-recognition and personalised codes). Enhanced Imaging (EI) technology developed by the Clans uses a subdermal skein of wiring to grant better control over a machine.[/color]
[color=#252525]
More advanced neural engineering technologies include the experimental Direct Neural Interface (DNI), a system that provides a MechWarrior fuller mental control over a 'Mech than offered by a standard neurohelmet.[31] The system's potential for serious neurological damage to the MechWarrior prevented the technology from advancing beyond the prototype stage, though Vehicular Direct Neural Interface (VDNI) was later successfully deployed by theWord of Blake to create the "cyber-soldiers" of the Manei Domini.[/color]
[color=#252525]
Other applications of bionics range from prosthetic limbs, such as the hand of Justin Xiang,[31] to elective implants intended to improve strength or enhance the senses.[32] An extreme example of bionic augmentation was Captain-General Gerald Marik who in 2667 received extensive implants following a life-threatening injury.[33]
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Manei_Domini
[/color]
None of that is completely foreign to the IS, nor is it strictly beyond the timeline.
Its in most of the novels (not saying it did the IP any favors) and its definitely (its on my lap) in the Mechwarrior RPG rules.
Implants are everywhere. I have no idea where you got the ideas that you got. But the lore surrounding the Neurointerfaces has greatly expanded, and im still just going by the stuff from the 90s.
Sorry. Youre not correct.
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 12:34 PM
The neurohelmet reads the brainwaves of the pilot. The basic model of neurohelmet focuses on the human sense of balance. With a multi-ton gyroscope and powerful myomers in the limbs, BattleMechs can stand upright and remain balanced on their own, but the limited intelligence of BattleMechs and natural conservatism of their control computers means they often need to be told when it is acceptable to be off balance, which may be helpful in battle as MechWarriors push their machines. The neurohelmet also provides feedback to the MechWarrior, helping them retain their own sense of balance as they sit 10 to 12 meters in the air atop a swaying, weaving bipedal giant robot.
More advanced neurohelmets provide additional input and output beyond a sense of balance, though they never amount to "Direct Neural Interface" technology. A neurohelmet can provide the MechWarrior with a kinesthetic sense - a sense of how the 'Mech's limbs are positioned - and Star League aerospace fighter neurohelmets served to provide a weak virtual reality to the pilots. In return, MechWarriors can use neurohelmets to provide some clarification the simple commands they are supplying to a 'Mech through joysticks, triggers, and pedals.
Early neurohelmets had to be carefully calibrated to the brain of the pilot. If the calibration was not exact (or if there was the wrong pilot wearing the helmet), this could lead to a host of effects, including headache, dizzy sight, balance problems and disturbing buzzing inside your head (a very weak buzzing remains even if the calibration is correct). Such out-dated neurohelmets are still in use in Clan Sibkos and in old 'Mechs in the Periphery. Modern neurohelmets are more advanced and no longer depend on a specific pilot.
----
The reason its blurring your vision is because its sending inputs.
They keep saying Joystick, but this is not whats shown in the artwork, in the cartoon, mentioned in the books. At most, a few switches are here and there and theres a trigger...somewhere...for weapons.
And you cant argue with the cartoon. The mechs move like Robotech mechs. Theyre nimble, they can move like human beings, they can jump, dodge, duck, roll, grapple, trip...
And the rules go by this too...picking up clubs, using rubble in a gauss, tripping, climbing, going prone..
This is impossible to achieve with joysticks. The way its done is with a connection to the electrical impulses in your brain that are being read AND FED by the neurohelmet, and any assisting implant.
Clans use this all the time.
The IS uses it all the time.
Pirates...house lords...mercs...
If you can afford an implant, and want to take the risk, go for it.. Its in every major star port at every major mall or military base.
Theres implants so you can read Comstar news on your coffee break.
Getting an implant was one of the first freaking missions in Crescent Hawks Inception....its like...the first thing you do.
More advanced neurohelmets provide additional input and output beyond a sense of balance, though they never amount to "Direct Neural Interface" technology. A neurohelmet can provide the MechWarrior with a kinesthetic sense - a sense of how the 'Mech's limbs are positioned - and Star League aerospace fighter neurohelmets served to provide a weak virtual reality to the pilots. In return, MechWarriors can use neurohelmets to provide some clarification the simple commands they are supplying to a 'Mech through joysticks, triggers, and pedals.
Early neurohelmets had to be carefully calibrated to the brain of the pilot. If the calibration was not exact (or if there was the wrong pilot wearing the helmet), this could lead to a host of effects, including headache, dizzy sight, balance problems and disturbing buzzing inside your head (a very weak buzzing remains even if the calibration is correct). Such out-dated neurohelmets are still in use in Clan Sibkos and in old 'Mechs in the Periphery. Modern neurohelmets are more advanced and no longer depend on a specific pilot.
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The reason its blurring your vision is because its sending inputs.
They keep saying Joystick, but this is not whats shown in the artwork, in the cartoon, mentioned in the books. At most, a few switches are here and there and theres a trigger...somewhere...for weapons.
And you cant argue with the cartoon. The mechs move like Robotech mechs. Theyre nimble, they can move like human beings, they can jump, dodge, duck, roll, grapple, trip...
And the rules go by this too...picking up clubs, using rubble in a gauss, tripping, climbing, going prone..
This is impossible to achieve with joysticks. The way its done is with a connection to the electrical impulses in your brain that are being read AND FED by the neurohelmet, and any assisting implant.
Clans use this all the time.
The IS uses it all the time.
Pirates...house lords...mercs...
If you can afford an implant, and want to take the risk, go for it.. Its in every major star port at every major mall or military base.
Theres implants so you can read Comstar news on your coffee break.
Getting an implant was one of the first freaking missions in Crescent Hawks Inception....its like...the first thing you do.
#96
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- The 1 Percent
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 12:41 PM
You have to have it to pilot the Pheonix Hawk LAM youre getting...
The only way this is confused is if youre cherry picking an era of the TT rules. If you just accept it all, even the contradicting stuff...there are neuralinterfaces all over the IS, in Aerospace, in mechs, tanks, in an infantrymans helmet. His commander has a direct link to him not unlike GPS links and comm links are soldier specific today.
All this stuff was based on things that were technogically, expected to be right around the corner in the 80s.
Everyone has too much attachment to the idea that its a place where technology has completely gone back to the stone ages. They made alot of advancements in neurohelmets since the fall of the Star League, and at the time, neurohelmets werent the only, or perferred, way of controlling a mech.
It could kill you or drive you insane.
It wasnt until around 3000 that the advancements in that technogy went PAST the Star League Era, and most new mechs were outfitted with these devices by 3025...
C3 works the same way a modern tactical integration system works, just the HUD isnt a glass visor, its actually transmitted directly to your brain.
This way they can show you, literally show you, exactly what someone else is seeing, without the need for high bandwidth data transfer.
The only way this is confused is if youre cherry picking an era of the TT rules. If you just accept it all, even the contradicting stuff...there are neuralinterfaces all over the IS, in Aerospace, in mechs, tanks, in an infantrymans helmet. His commander has a direct link to him not unlike GPS links and comm links are soldier specific today.
All this stuff was based on things that were technogically, expected to be right around the corner in the 80s.
Everyone has too much attachment to the idea that its a place where technology has completely gone back to the stone ages. They made alot of advancements in neurohelmets since the fall of the Star League, and at the time, neurohelmets werent the only, or perferred, way of controlling a mech.
It could kill you or drive you insane.
It wasnt until around 3000 that the advancements in that technogy went PAST the Star League Era, and most new mechs were outfitted with these devices by 3025...
C3 works the same way a modern tactical integration system works, just the HUD isnt a glass visor, its actually transmitted directly to your brain.
This way they can show you, literally show you, exactly what someone else is seeing, without the need for high bandwidth data transfer.
Edited by KraftySOT, 29 September 2014 - 12:42 PM.
#97
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- Legendary Founder
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- LocationOn your six, chipping away at your rear armour.
Posted 29 September 2014 - 12:47 PM
Enhanced Imaging is for ProtoMechs, and has certain... disadvantages:
"The E.I. will be the hardest part. Currently, the data we have shows that the effective lifespan of Clan pilots with E.I. is 2.3 years. First, we have to deal with highly invasive neural surgery. After recovery from that, pilots need physical therapy time to reclaim full control of the body and learn to use the E.I. Next, the user suffers tremendous strain from neural feedback when his vehicle gets damaged. Finally, the user develops psychosis, generally involving paranoia."
(Tech Manual, p. 78, Transcript from meeting Update on Proto R&D Progress and Assignment of Actions, 3067)
Lots of Star League era Tech is lostech.
For the record, the word "implant" occurs twice in Tech Manual, both in reference to the ProtoMech E.I., and not at all in Total Warfare.
Also, while sarna is a great resource, it does not trump the actual rule books.
"The E.I. will be the hardest part. Currently, the data we have shows that the effective lifespan of Clan pilots with E.I. is 2.3 years. First, we have to deal with highly invasive neural surgery. After recovery from that, pilots need physical therapy time to reclaim full control of the body and learn to use the E.I. Next, the user suffers tremendous strain from neural feedback when his vehicle gets damaged. Finally, the user develops psychosis, generally involving paranoia."
(Tech Manual, p. 78, Transcript from meeting Update on Proto R&D Progress and Assignment of Actions, 3067)
Lots of Star League era Tech is lostech.
For the record, the word "implant" occurs twice in Tech Manual, both in reference to the ProtoMech E.I., and not at all in Total Warfare.
Also, while sarna is a great resource, it does not trump the actual rule books.
#98
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- The 1 Percent
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 12:48 PM
And apparently, its also addicting...as Smoke Jaguar found out.
Theres support groups for people with implant shock and 'integration' dependency.
Theres support groups for people with implant shock and 'integration' dependency.
#99
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- 2,818 posts
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 12:49 PM
Adiuvo, on 29 September 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:
Uh yeah, it's both of those. Heavies and assaults can afford to slow down for shots, and often do anyways. Lights/meds do not.
Well, it makes sense for Heavies and Assaults to slow down to take shots because they have more armor. But the penalty still remains in that most Heavies and Assaults take time to slowdown to take a shot and if they want accurate shots, they have to slow down to very low speeds (66% of maximum speed, which is generally pretty low for an already low value). This places them in positions that if they slow down to take a shot at the wrong time, they will be easily out maneuvered or out of position.
Sure, that Heavy or Assault that is standing still will be dangerous to Mediums and Lights. But with Medium and Lights moving around, if the damage doesn't take out the Medium or Light, that Heavy or Assault is going to also be spreading out damage, if not out right missing when firing everything they have while trying to move to keep a Medium or Light in their front arc.
And the odds of a Heavy or Assault taking out a Medium or Light instantly is basically non-existent due to spread caused by firing multiple weapons at the same time. But that same Medium or Light couldn't do it for long as they will take hits over time.
Edited by Zyllos, 29 September 2014 - 12:50 PM.
#100
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- The 1 Percent
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Posted 29 September 2014 - 12:52 PM
Then pick up the MW rule book?
Besides implants that help you pilot a mech or do something specific...there are implants like sub dermal armor so you can take more damage when youre mugged in an alley.
The word of blake didnt just invent this stuff themselves. It had been around for a long time...and its one of the ONLY areas of technology that was never effected by the fall of the star league.
Starleague helmets are crap.
A 3025 helmet will be better, by far.
And it wont drive you bonkers.
And IS implants are actually better.
The EI clan implants come from the same tech, but spiraled off in a different way.
Then you have the elementals.
Theyve been around for 60 years before the invasion.
Theyre completely wired up.
Besides implants that help you pilot a mech or do something specific...there are implants like sub dermal armor so you can take more damage when youre mugged in an alley.
The word of blake didnt just invent this stuff themselves. It had been around for a long time...and its one of the ONLY areas of technology that was never effected by the fall of the star league.
Starleague helmets are crap.
A 3025 helmet will be better, by far.
And it wont drive you bonkers.
And IS implants are actually better.
The EI clan implants come from the same tech, but spiraled off in a different way.
Then you have the elementals.
Theyve been around for 60 years before the invasion.
Theyre completely wired up.
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