744 replies to this topic

[Xeren KelDar]

PhoenixFire55, on 30 September 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

Yeah, that is ONE person our of billions of people, one out of tens of thousands of Centurions manufactured that has been customized. And even then it wasn't customized, its was built different, it is a unique mech that had nothing to do with other Centurions. The build on it didn't change after mech was built. Nor any other battlemech.

Wrong. It was a secondhand mech that Justin had modified for Solaris. Even if it was built that way your argument for the Yen Lo Wang is still wrong. Hanse Davion had it modified for Kai Allard Liao for refusing the Daishi and allowing it to go to Victor. Hanse rewarded Kai because Victor would now have a Daishi just like Hohiro and it allowed the two houses to remain equal with their future leaders having a clan omnimech as their personal ride.

Kai Allard Liao's Yen Lo Wang was equipped with a gauss rifle, 4 medium pulse, triple strength myomer, and a 200 XL engine. That is definitely a different loadout than what Justin used. It got another loadout later on when Kai's great-niece piloted it.

Custom mechs weren't common, like MWO, but they did exist and they did change throughout their lifetimes.

Edited by Xeren KelDar, 30 September 2014 - 09:59 AM.

[Sprouticus]

wanderer, on 29 September 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

Um, no. Not without a compact engine/gyro, which no current Atlas (or indeed, any other 3050-era design) is capable of.

You come back to the thread when you've got a solid understanding of how a 'Mech gets built in TT. Here.

http://www.solarisskunkwerks.com/

Right now, you'd be building with advanced rules, Age of War/Star League era if you wanted anything even remotely like what MWO for the Inner Sphere is at the moment- and a little time with the 'Mech builder there will show you there's piles of stuff that haven't even made it into MWO for the era.

Although I'd agree on one thing. Having someone with a deep, solid grip on the TT game and adapting the spirit of it into MWO would go miles towards improving it. Basic things like thinking "10 crit space engine must mean each crit destroys 10% of engine" when it's 3 crits, that's it (hint: this is why IS XL engines go boom when you kill a side torso and Clan XL don't) need to be understood, and more importantly the WHY these things exist need to be understood and embraced by the devs to get a game that doesn't end having to deal with yawning gaps in balance issues like Clan XLs as they are now.

Dude, baby steps for balance. (not saying you are wrong, I think 20% is too low. I am guessing the balance point will be closer to 50%)

say it with me....baby steps for balance.

[Ramsess]

The quirk pass on some mechs pretty much proves something you kept protecting for the past 2-3 years...
You need hardpoint sizes as in MW4.
Right now yourselves are saying this mech should be using this and not that.
Please think about it.

Second request... BV needs to be added thx.

[Ultimax]

In light of two things:


1) S variant with non-S STs not locked into 5 full JJs - only with both S-STs
2) Russ reconsidering the S Side torso negative quirks


I just want to say that my initial assumption was wrong, and these changes aren't bad.



Also really amazing having Russ engage with us so much on new developments.

Keep up the great work.

[Gas Guzzler]

Russ Bullock, on 29 September 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

The key is a boost without resurrecting pop tarting

I understand the concern for that, but a Highlander spending 8 tons on Jump Jets should be able to poptart reasonably effectively. The initial goal was to bring poptarting inline with other tactics, not decimate it. They are slow and good pilots can take out their side torsos quite easily (all poptarting HGN's have XLs). With PPCs being slower now I don't think there will be as much of a problem as before even if this thing can get some altitude. It sounds like you guys are on the right track though, a small boost would be nice and then turning effectiveness will be interesting to see as well. Curious as to whether or not we can expect full JJs to get a boost in jump turning or just minimum JJs get penalized.

Thanks for all the great communication!!

Edit: NVM I see you already answered that last question

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 30 September 2014 - 09:47 AM.

[Sprouticus]

FupDup, on 30 September 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

That seems fair enough, given that it's about to have the built-in negative quirk of -2 tons and -2 slots per side torso.

I dont know if that is a negative quirk since you also get 2 JJ's. Maybe a slight negative quirk....maybe it is a wash.

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

Russ Bullock, on 30 September 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

UI 2.0 has a full time developer who continues to make improvements - store got a round of improvements this last time as well as some more in the mechlab - we will get to the smurfy style improvements eventually. Every time we have a spare moment we fix some bugs and make some improvements in UI 2.0

UI 2.0 doesn't have bugs. It is a bug itself! It's a monstrosity designed to turn people off. It's really so much easier to quit the game, than to issue any changes to the mech. And even to quit the game you need no less than 4 (four) clicks! No game had a worse interface, that's a fact. You can't fix or improve it, it's impossible, 2.0 is a dead end. Smurfy does all that on a single screen and gives more information! It's incomparable.

As for engine crits.. So, losing a side torso, IS mech dies, Clan mech loses 2-3 heatsinks. And you say it's enough? Please... Don't make special rules for side torsos, just make proper engine crits, and they will count when Clan XL loses a torso. Go from general to specific.

JumpJets in MWO is a morbid joke. It doesn't get any better, if the Summoner will now climb his 3 meters up faster with 5JJ than it would with 2.
Glide-turning is the main idea for JJ in MWO, and it's no good.
Give us Jump Jets, not Glide Jets! There are tons of ideas across the Forums about how to make it balanced.

And take JJs from Timber Wolf! S variant is too far down the list, it's uncommon, and TWolf having JJs makes Summoner even more obsolete. Though I understand, that it's too late to do that.

Edited by Duncan Jr Fischer, 30 September 2014 - 09:50 AM.

[Foxwalker]

Russ Bullock, on 29 September 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

The key is a boost without resurrecting pop tarting

My thinking is that even if maxing jump jets made pop tart tactics work, it would be limited by reduced ammo, armor or heat sinks, thus greatly reducing the viability of the tactic over the length of a game.

[Jon Gotham]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 29 September 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

Please let us know your thoughts on Russ' latest update!

Spoiler

This sort of thing is exactly what you should be doing.
Nothing but positive thought about this, good job.

[Hades Trooper]

Wintersdark, on 30 September 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

Russ already announced that Victors are being un-nerfed in the quirk pass. They won't receive positive quirks as well, but their current agility nerfs are going away.

The OP covers why they're just nerfing HS and not speed. Maybe speed as well will be required, but I for one am very happy that Russ is taking baby steps here; you don't want to over-nerf Clan mechs. If more is required later, then so be it, but baby steps.

So the Victor gets un nerfed and the TW is being nerfed?

Can anyone say not buying mechs from Wave 2 now?

I'm serious, its already at the point where IS are better than or just equal to clan mechs now and we gonna suffer again as the IS get effectively a buff?

I"m sorry but i thought the clans where brought in fairly well but with each passing patch there getting more and more trashed.

Perhaps it's time to take another 6 month break and see if the games gotten any better as it's seriously becoming a bad joke again.

The thing thats needs to be fixed pronto is the mixed que dropping, we NEED Clan vs IS ALREADY!.

TW by themselves aren't OP, if u think so then your dreaming, whats OP is when u combine the best of the clans with the best of the IS, thats whats OP.

Pure clan vs IS yes the TW is good but when it's partnered up with nova,s kits foxs and summoners it's own side is going to be enough of a down side that they won't need nerfs.

Nova is 50 tonnes, same height as a catapraht and wider with maybe even lower slung arms and it's 15 tonnes lightly than the 65 tonne IS.

Fixed JJ is gonna make the kit fox ballsistic option a joke. the increased heat from lasers has forced me into a ballsitic build and now u tell me i can't put a JJ in the leg and thus can only use a machine gun in the left torso?

OMG how i wished i'd paid c-bills instead of cash for my direwhale package.

As for the direwolf being OP. slowest base move mech in the game that can't mod it's engine, worst torso twist of anything i've driven and i thought stalkers where bad, laughable turn radius also to boot and its OP? so lets nerf ppc also, and take away the ER from the ER PPC.

So now yes the IS have slow ppc's like me, but then they get the option of non er version for lower heat, cause the range means nothing now since the travel speeds was cut.

can't have 15 points of pin point damage, but you can have the heat and splash damage thats is half wasted if u hit a leg or arm.

the list goes on,.

IS won't need to defend Terra, the clans will never get near it with how much they {Dezgra} and moan like $5 hookers on payday.

Learn, adapt or die, instead it's {Dezgra} moan and let pgi save us.

Here comes some marvel heroes and battlefield 4 for me in the near future


JUST FOR FRIGGAN SAKE UNNERF THIS GARBAGE AND MAKE IT 10V 12 ALREADY.

[HashtagComStarWasRight]

PhoenixFire55, on 30 September 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

Yeah, that is ONE person our of billions of people, one out of tens of thousands of Centurions manufactured that has been customized. And even then it wasn't customized, its was built different, it is a unique mech that had nothing to do with other Centurions. The build on it didn't change after mech was built. Nor any other battlemech.

Nope, it was a stock CN9-A that was customized after being built.

There are plenty of other examples (the canon Heavy Metal comes to mind) too.

[Kael Posavatz]

This fixed jump jet thing only affects two mechs, the Timberwolf, and the Kit Fox.

Most of the Timberwolf builds can survive this. It is, for example, still possible to run an energy-brawler, or a quad LRM-15/quad ER-Med package (though ammunition will be severely limited).

The Kit Fox is another story. It will now be impossible to run an LB-X-10 autocannon, for example. Want to run machine guns? those will cost you a half-ton...plus a (literally) ton of jump jets regardless of whether you need or even want them. No light mech has tonnage to spare that it can eat that kind of penalty if the build does not need it.

Nobody has mentioned it yet--if they have and I have missed it I apologize--but the Kit Fox is the only ECM mech the Clans have, and will continue to have well into November when it will be joined by the Mist Lynx. Remind me again how many Commandos we see running around? The Hellbringer will not be available until December, neither will be available for C-bills until spring, and in the meantime we have Community Warfare Phase Two coming in 'late fall', where the Kit Fox will presumably be pressed into service as the Clans' ECM unit, crippled ballistics and hampered by possibly unnecessary weight or no.

I am not adverse to removing the Clans' ability to place jump jets in any torso or leg component. A hardpoint system for jump jets would restrict where they could be placed while giving the Clan players to run them or not.

Removing he Timberwolf-S side torso de-buffs is probably a mistake. They (and this fixed jump jet thing, though I am reluctant to admit it) will encourage players to diversify into the Mad Dog for the LRM/Energy support role. Remove the de-buffs, and the available tonnage is going to be similar enough that with the Timberwolf's heavier armor it is still going to be used as a heavy missile boat, IS players are still going to scream about Clan LRMs being over-powered, and 'data' will be cited to hit the Clans with a blanket penalty...again.

[Kain Demos]

Does anyone know the appropriate timelines for the different Timberwolf variants? I know obviously any with ATM launchers or Heavy Lasers are clearly not on the table but I think the A, B or D would have been better choices than the S.

I guess its too late since we already have the "S" in the game but it being one of the first 3 variants was probably a huge mistake and a disservice to the Summoner.

Edited by Kain Thul, 30 September 2014 - 10:10 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

so im liking most everything about this Oct road map but one thing,

the fixed JJ, personally i feel this is wrong,
as stated by some one i feel has better understanding then me,

FupDup, on 30 September 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:

Because that's literally how the Omnimech rules work.

Each Omni has what is called a "base" configuration. This base includes armor, internal structure, engine, weapons, heatsinks, and/or other equipment for the chassis to use. Anything present on the base config is permanently stuck to the Omnimech forever and can't ever be removed. This includes the Summoner and Nova Jump Jets. They are built into the base configuration, so you don't ever get to remove them.

The Mad Cat, however, does NOT feature Jump Jets on its base configuration, which means they are not required equipment for all builds. The Omnimech rules just so happen to allow items like JJs to be added to any Omnimech config up to a mech's walking MP (in this case, 5 jets for the Mad Cat if he optionally chose to install them). Jump Jets work the same way as most other equipment on Omnis does. Those ER Medium Lasers on your Nova's arm aren't hardwired to the base config, they can be added and removed at will. The same goes for heatsinks. You can add or remove more at any time (excluding the default hardwired number) so long as you have the slots and tonnage for it.


A better solution than forcing JJ usage on mechs that weren't designed to require JJs would be to actually MAKE IT WORTHWHILE TO USE THAT MANY JETS in the first place.

Let's use the variable "X" to represent how "good" a single Jump Jet would be. So, this means that using 2 JJs should give 2X effectiveness. 3 JJs should be 3X the power. 5 JJs should be 5X the power. So on and so forth. Then, people who forked over the tonnage and slots for more than 2-3 JJs would be appropriately rewarded for their sacrifice, and we could have avoided this whole situation. But nope, PGI wants to have a "diminishing returns" system for their JJs, rather than a directly linear scale.

Few would try to deny that the Mad Cat could use some form of nerf (I've suggested some nerfs of my own, in other threads) but the problem that some players (including myself) have with this specific idea is that it doesn't just hurt the Mad Cat a bit, it hurts any future Omnimechs that use pod-mounted JJs instead of hardwired. The Cute Fox already fits the bill for that, and is at least slightly nerfed (arguably undeserving) by this "solution."

We should have had some kind of nerf that affected the Mad Cat and only the Mad Cat, not some arbitrary across-the-board global nerf just to spite everybody's favorite 75 ton heavy. We need to stop making balancing adjustments that are intended to target the Mad Cat but hit everybody else just as hard, because it won't disrupt the relative standing of the Clan lineup (i.e. the best ones still stay the best, the sub-par ones stay sub-par).

i agree with the above, and when people say,
"well its not that bad, ive always had 5 JJ on my TBR"
well then you don't understand, you have a bias for this,

your not looking at this like the people who need those Tons or ST space,
your looking at it as well i wont effect me so i don't care and wont worry about it,
people need to understand what this will do to current and up and coming Omni-Mechs,
fixing this leads to more fixed equipment across the board

what you replied once before, in my "Let Us Remove Fixed Omni Jump-Jets" topic

Russ Bullock, on 20 September 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

I was pushing to do this a while ago but the plan was to first make all our JJ changes. Well now we have and although it has helped reduce the power of the 1 JJ timber wolf and other 1 JJ mechs.

I still this is a valid point that I will need to bring up again.

this got a lot of people hyped and exited for this,
but as this is just the opposite, this hype has turned to frustration,
people loved this and we got amazing support following your comment,
but not this idea is worrying people, what else will be come fixed now,

i understand your process, but please reconsider,
if this goes through people will be forced to use JJ,
even if they don't want to, even if they don't like to,
and to not use them they take a weight penalty,

Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 30 September 2014 - 10:13 AM.

[Andross Deverow]

Russ,

In regards to quirks for IS mechs. PLEASE GOD MAKE THE ATLAS SOMETHING TO BE FEARED!.. LOL!

Just seems to be awful non-assaultish as it gets nuetered immediately on the first fight. Bye Bye ballistic weapon in a few seconds. Please give us quirks that will help it meet the Sarna description regarding its original design.

“ A 'Mech as powerful as possible, as impenetrable as possible, and as ugly and foreboding as conceivable, so that fear itself will be our ally. ”
Currently not a single mech in game is afraid of an Atlas because they are not very durable and become toothless so quicky...

Just an observation and a request..

Regards

[Ovion]

I'm not sure if it's been asked, or posted, but I (and I'm sure other people) would be interested to see the list of Tiers (even if it is due to change).

If it HAS been posted, then please direct me to it! xD

[rangergord]

Russ Bullock, on 29 September 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

Again I think this ends up helping build diversity.

When I currently run my Dragon mechs it seems each one looks dang similar. AC10, medium lasers and SRM.

Now I might actually make my 5N about AC2 and my FANG about AC10 and my 1C about Gauss etc. A reason to diversify my Dragon mech's from each other.

The alternative is just buffing all weapons for every Dragon so you have the same issue you have now where I take the same thing out in my 5N that I take out in my 1C or near enough.

It looks like this is targeting people who have all of the mechs or just really, really like a specific chassis. It seems like it will increase build diversity for them while decreasing diversity for those who don't.

Edited by rangergord, 30 September 2014 - 10:19 AM.

[HashtagComStarWasRight]

Kael 17, on 30 September 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

The Kit Fox is another story. It will now be impossible to run an LB-X-10 autocannon, for example. Want to run machine guns? those will cost you a half-ton...plus a (literally) ton of jump jets regardless of whether you need or even want them. No light mech has tonnage to spare that it can eat that kind of penalty if the build does not need it.

Nobody has mentioned it yet--if they have and I have missed it I apologize--but the Kit Fox is the only ECM mech the Clans have, and will continue to have well into November when it will be joined by the Mist Lynx. Remind me again how many Commandos we see running around? The Hellbringer will not be available until December, neither will be available for C-bills until spring, and in the meantime we have Community Warfare Phase Two coming in 'late fall', where the Kit Fox will presumably be pressed into service as the Clans' ECM unit, crippled ballistics and hampered by possibly unnecessary weight or no.

I actually updated my KFX builds this morning in anticipation of the JJ changes... both of my KFXs now have dual -S legs and 4xJJ, and I actually prefer them this way. Jump jets really shine on light mechs, and my Kit Foxes get around like little demons now.

True, you won't be able to mount an LB10X, but you can fit an LB5X. The 10X is a pretty huge gun for a 30-tonner to begin with, and you end up sacrificing your other weaponry to boot.

I just finished a set of matches in my KFX-D (Max armor, ECM, AMS(1t), 4xJJ, cLPL, 2xcMPL) and it actually performs better than my pre-change builds.

[Jabilo]

Dear Russ,

Love every change you have mentioned, especially the jump jet buffs - seems very well thought out.

Jump jets needed love and they needed to scale better so that they are significantly buffed, BUT only for those prepared to spend significant tonnage maxing them out. Seems like you will take a step towards this.

I would also like to see more vertical thrust to avoid the hoverboard effect and knee clipping we are seeing at the moment. Please have a look at vertical to horizontal thrust ratio when you refine the numbers.

11/10 for the road map post and subsequent community interaction. I know you are busy but it really makes a difference.

One item of feedback, the queue rewards should be for whatever mech is needed at the time. Heavy and assaults are high right now because of the Direwolf and Timberwolf, but expect the medium queue to go up once the Stormcrow becomes available for C Bills.

/Bravo

[Nomex 99]

fleshwoundNPG, on 29 September 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

Yep, this is the Timber Wolf Nerf a lot of you have been waiting for

It's just fraud. A lot of people spend $ for their Clan Mechs.