744 replies to this topic

[Jetfire]

Airox, on 30 September 2014 - 06:05 AM, said:

I know others have already commented, but the JJ changes to clan mechs is a MAJOR blow to the Timberwolf. 5 crit slots allows for just about nothing in the side torsos.

All the other changes sound great and logically thought out.

This change however was clearly not thought out.

You get to pick which Ominpod you use. That's what makes the clans so cool. Keeping the JJ's hard wired to the pod makes all the sense in the world. Pick the grounded versions for more pod space.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 30 September 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

In light of two things:


1) S variant with non-S STs not locked into 5 full JJs - only with both S-STs
2) Russ reconsidering the S Side torso negative quirks


I just want to say that my initial assumption was wrong, and these changes aren't bad.

Speaking of which, I wonder if Russ is already reconsidering the Kit Fox S leg and side torso penalties, now that they will have tonnage and critslot penalties (forced JJs) for mounting them.

[HashtagComStarWasRight]

Sandtiger, on 30 September 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

Here is another link to the wiki. Please Note: "[color=#000000]In addition to standard weapons fire, a 'Mech with jump jets can perform a combat maneuver known as [/color]Death from Above"[color=#000000] [/color]
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jump_Jet

Death From Above has nothing to do with weapons fire. DFA is when you use jump jets to jump 'onto' another mech and do crushing damage. There is no way to simulate pop-tarting in the rules, as I said.

And since you can't substantiate your claims they become moot.

[dwwolf]

Could you post an overview of your proposed IS mech tiers for quirks and one of the quirks you intend to implement ? With the usual to be tested caveats ofcourse.

[Mogney]

Thanks for the tier list, a few debatable items, but looks very good.

[Deathlike]

Well, there's the tier list that was put up... with a few noted caveats (Victor being top tier, but after removing the quirks...)

There are some questionable/subjective discussion can be made about stuff slotted between Tier 3 and Tier 5, but for the most part... there is a whole lot of terrible IS mechs that exist, so it's hard to argue the list in a general sense.

[Big Tin Man]

Deathlike, on 30 September 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

Well, there's the tier list that was put up... with a few noted caveats (Victor being top tier, but after removing the quirks...)

Ummm yeah. Victor as top tier after being beat to death by the nerf bat, then the jump jet nerf bat, then the weapons nerf bat. You guys may want to look into that.

[Zyllos]

AS7-D-DC being a T2 mech. I wonder why that is?

Too easy to take out the side torsos for removal of GECM?

[Kirkland Langue]

Individually, these changes sound good....

... But at the same time - nobody really has any clue about balance until CW is released and people start playing "for real". Once players are actually competing to get their units on the map, and competing for LPs, and you get real stats on IS vs Clan and the popularity of different mechs.... only at that time will anyone have a clue.

These changes sound good.
The existence of a road map is good.

But how about getting CW deployed and THEN worrying about balance changes? It doesn't matter what you do to balance the game right now - players will STILL be asking for balance changes a year from now... Quit wasting your development hours with short sighted bandaids and put your effort into taking the game out of an Alpha state.

[Gorgo7]

Hades Trooper, on 30 September 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

So the Victor gets un nerfed and the TW is being nerfed?

Yakking....

Suck it up princess.

[Sandtiger]

HashtagComStarWasRight, on 30 September 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

Death From Above has nothing to do with weapons fire. DFA is when you use jump jets to jump 'onto' another mech and do crushing damage. There is no way to simulate pop-tarting in the rules, as I said.

And since you can't substantiate your claims they become moot.

Read it again. And then go back and read all of it. Your opinion to me is moot. =p

[DevilCrayon]

THANK YOU for flushing the negative quirks from the Victor!

[HashtagComStarWasRight]

Sandtiger, on 30 September 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Read it again. And then go back and read all of it. Your opinion to me is moot. =p

This is not the thread for arguing. Just accept that you bringing up DFA is irrelevant because it has nothing to do with firing weapons while using jump jets.

[FireDog]

As for the Jester, I have always thought if a weapon designer were to design a direct fire jumping Catapult, given the Missile Catapult’s chassis to work from, the last thing on their mind would be to sacrifice a single degree of the missile Cat's 120/0-16/35 degree arc of fire, possible even pushing it out to 16/45 like the K2’s.

I can understand limiting a catapult's arc due to gun recoil forces but not an all energy catapult. The current 95/0-16/30 is pretty restrictive given the missile chassis’ more permissive limits. And since it’s fighting style depends so much on the jump jets, why in the heck would some weapon system designer drop two from its capacity? These deviations from the standard chassis did not make any sense at all.

Anyway I'm hoping PGI will mitigate some of the heavy nerfing and buff it up during another round of quirks. Personally I'm hoping for the same missile mech version torso twist/arc of fire with the announced JJ bump plus maybe a better heat efficiently due to the Jester’s decided design as an all energy mech. (akin to the Awsome)

Honestly the Jester, like all the Cats, suffers enough from the massive Catapult CT while allows easy access from 275 degrees. This plus their XL engine friendly side torsos, makes it is appealing to light mechs that want to start a knife fight. This hero was never a pay to win mech, its just not top tier material, but it was FUN (pre-nerfs). I hope a re-address will allow it to fill the niche it was specifically designed to.

Edited by FireDog, 30 September 2014 - 04:03 PM.

[Macksheen]

Things I feel you've marked too highly:
KTO-GB ... it's so outclassed by the freaking 18.
CPLT-J ... it's like a Jenner, but slower and easier to hit. I love this mech, but it blows.
CN9-YLW ... I put this here as a placeholder for the upcoming new CN9 that can mount an AC20 ... the YLW can't move it's arms, making it worse than all the other CN9 regardless.
AS7-BH ... weapons in the arms - bad for Atlas and this one more than others is weak here.
Quickdraws ... they are really in a bad spot


Things I feel you've marked too low in a tier:
All the JM6 can go dual-guass or boom basically; they are all 2.
I don't think Awesomes are all that bad ... currently.
The Firestarter that mounts dual AMS needs to move up one category.
The ECM spider needs to move up a category.
There's no way the ECM cicada should be marked that low.
Blackjacks are better than you have rated.

[Mazerius]

AdamBaines, on 30 September 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

I agree Russ...please fix this so all the unholy Urbie lovers will stop their constant pestering!!!!

Not sure that Id go with unholy, Odd maybe? One with the trash can that is our one true master?

[Felicitatem Parco]

Quote

A Clan engine has a total of 10 critical engine slots and the destruction of a Side Torso in a clan ‘Mech means the loss of two of those slots, or 20%.

The way I interpret it:

"A Clan Engine will fail if it gets hit 3 times, so losing 2 critical slots would result in 66% damage."

Edited by Prosperity Park, 30 September 2014 - 04:51 PM.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Ultimatum X, on 30 September 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

In light of two things:

1) S variant with non-S STs not locked into 5 full JJs - only with both S-STs
2) Russ reconsidering the S Side torso negative quirks

Not sure if I care for the for the locked JJs myself, as that removes at least 2 tons of ammo/crit slots from the mechs I put JJs on in the first place

Edited by AnimeFreak40K, 30 September 2014 - 05:19 PM.

[Drake67]

1. Fall damage ok
2. JJ thrust scaling ok
3. JJ trun rate. Leave this alone. it is where it needs to be. add quicker turns for more JJ.
4. Omnimech locking JJ to the Timberwolf S pods NO! Personally would like to get rid of all locked JJ, Heatsinks and weapon slots.
5. Clan side torso- ok seems reasonable.
6. Rewards for using lights, or low volume mechs ok.
7. Quirk system overhaul. Kewl but still wont get me to play mechs that don't have loadouts I like.

[Acrius]

This is a great post, and all the changes sound interesting. In specific, I love the idea that the IS quirks will favor the stock builds. My hope is the Clan pass at quirks will be more generic (and less powerful). This will help re-enforce the specialization of the standard mech, and the flexibility of an OmniMech.