744 replies to this topic

[Kain Demos]

E N E R G Y, on 29 September 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

Looking VERY GOOD.

You consulted with some of the competitive community (would prefer LORDS/ SJR even top european teams) and are re-visiting some important issues.

I would still love to see the PPC re-touched a bit ( a slight buff) just to see it into gameplay again because it's virtually non-existent as is poptarting, but small progress steps nevertheless!

With the current slow speeds and lack of pinpoint damage compared to the IS I would like to see the full 15 damage applied to imipact instead of the 2.5 splash damage to 2 components.

[Sandtiger]

Since you are going to implement side torso destruction penalties on XL engines for clan tech. Would it not be fair to the community of Clan Players to allow them standard engines? Or even the ability to upgrade their engines for additional speed and heat distribution? This would cut down their ability to mount more weapons and equipment because they simply wouldn't have as much tonnage to utilize.

Edited by Sandtiger, 29 September 2014 - 02:46 PM.

[Kain Demos]

fleshwoundNPG, on 29 September 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

The fixed JJs will ruin a couple of my Timber Wolf builds (not just the S), for I do not use JJs and use an omnipod S on a couple of my builds. Would be easier/better to just quirk the hell out of the Summoner/Nova/etc. with the fixed JJs.

...but I understand why this is being implimented. Damn, just spent a boatload of c-bills modding my T-Wolf with an S omnipod this morning...

(EDIT: Yep, this is the Timber Wolf Nerf a lot of you have been waiting for)

The only thing this is going to kill for me is the use of the TBR-S at all.

Currently I have removed all JJs from it and replaced the LT and RT with other omnipods and run it as a 2 CERPPC/CGAUSS build and man, it just barely holds it now.

If the JJs are fixed then I lose 1 ton to the CT JJ and the only place I could lose weight would be a ton of ammo and 20 rounds just won't cut it. When the Timberwolf comes out for C-bills I'll just have to buy another TBR-C or Prime.

[Sadist Cain]

Sandtiger, on 29 September 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

Nice! Now get rid of ghost heat, so that the game actually makes sense! ~Smirks

The devil is in the detail...

Quote

we have decided to not make movement a part of the penalty but to save that for some future implementation on the effects of heat on your 'Mechs functionality.

Sneaky sneaky

[Russ Bullock]

fleshwoundNPG, on 29 September 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

The fixed JJs will ruin a couple of my Timber Wolf builds (not just the S), for I do not use JJs and use an omnipod S on a couple of my builds. Would be easier/better to just quirk the hell out of the Summoner/Nova/etc. with the fixed JJs. ...but I understand why this is being implimented. Damn, just spent a boatload of c-bills modding my T-Wolf with an S omnipod this morning... (EDIT: Yep, this is the Timber Wolf Nerf a lot of you have been waiting for)

Yes I suppose it is a nerf. I considered allowing the Summoner to just remove the JJ but then you need to consider every other aspect of fixed location items. I think this is the most logical and fair way to deal with fixed JJ slots. The S variant always should have had fixed JJ's I feel.

[Kain Demos]

Russ Bullock, on 29 September 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

Yes I suppose it is a nerf. I considered allowing the Summoner to just remove the JJ but then you need to consider every other aspect of fixed location items. I think this is the most logical and fair way to deal with fixed JJ slots. The S variant always should have had fixed JJ's I feel.

Seeing as how they are locked on the Nova and Summoner then I agree.

I know if I could strip the JJs off of my Nova I'd do it in a second.

[Noober]

Awesome set of changes...

Looking forward to dusting off my locusts!

[Russ Bullock]

Sandtiger, on 29 September 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

Since you are going to implement side torso destruction penalties on XL engines for clan tech. Would it not be fair to the community of Clan Players to allow them standard engines? Or even the ability to upgrade their engines for additional speed and heat distribution? This would cut down their ability to mount more weapons and equipment because they simply wouldn't have as much tonnage to utilize.

Perhaps this will be necessary but remember were still chasing a competitive balance with IS mechs at the moment. Yes IS mechs have some advantages with their pin point damage and ability to swap engines around - but at the moment these items are what are making them approach competitiveness with the Clan mechs.

So I cannot start giving more flexibility to the Clan mechs until we know the impact of the IS quirks and these changes to Clan Side Torsos.

[VeryVizzy]

Regarding tiers, have you tiered each mech type or every variant? Ravens, Spiders & Atlus' at the top of my head (I'm sure there are more) are mechs where one or two variants are clearly better than others; the 'sub-optimal' variants could really do with a bigger boost than the good variants.

Also, any chance we get to see which tier you've placed each mech in? Knowing the quirks each mech would be receiving would obviously be awesome but in the mean time just knowing roughly how you rate our favourite mechs would be great.

Thank you for the comprehensive update, please let this be a regular thing.

Edited by VeryVizzy, 29 September 2014 - 02:54 PM.

[Creovex]

Regarding Russ.....

Who the **** does this guy think he is???? Just because you kicked out your fat ***** ex-wife IGP doesn't make you Samuel L Jackson in Shaft.....

Nice work you "bad aszs *****.. Shut your mouth!"!!

This is the company I ENJOY spending money on...

[Russ Bullock]

Kain Thul, on 29 September 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

The only thing this is going to kill for me is the use of the TBR-S at all. Currently I have removed all JJs from it and replaced the LT and RT with other omnipods and run it as a 2 CERPPC/CGAUSS build and man, it just barely holds it now. If the JJs are fixed then I lose 1 ton to the CT JJ and the only place I could lose weight would be a ton of ammo and 20 rounds just won't cut it. When the Timberwolf comes out for C-bills I'll just have to buy another TBR-C or Prime.

Let's keep in mind that the Timber Wolf is flat out a tier 1 mech and it will remain a tier 1 mech when this change goes live.

[ImperialKnight]

Brace yourselves, Timberwolf Nerf is coming

[Amigoid]

Regarding the side torso damage for clan mechs resulting in heat sink damage, I have to say I like it, AND you have figured out how to show some love for the hot maps (where an IS mech may gain an advantage over the clan variants). Looks like my shadowhawks and hunchies will get more attention soon, along with my spiders.

[Russ Bullock]

VeryVizzy, on 29 September 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

Regarding tiers, have you just tiered each mech type or every variant? Ravens, Spiders & Atlus' at the top of my head are mechs where one or two varients are clearly better than others, where the 'sub-optimal' variants could really do with a bigger boost than the good ones. Also, any chance we get to see which tier you've placed each mech in? Knowing the quirks each mech is receiving would obviously be awesome but in the mean time just knowing roughly how you rate our favourite mechs would be great. Thank you for the comprehensive update, please let this be a regular thing.

yes this is per variant. For instance The majority of Dragons are considered tier 5 but the Flame is a tier 3 mech.

Creovex, on 29 September 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

Regarding Russ..... Who the **** does this guy think he is???? Just because you kicked out your fat ***** ex-wife IGP doesn't make you Samuel L Jackson in Shaft..... Nice work you "bad aszs *****.. Shut your mouth!"!! This is the company I ENJOY spending money on...

lol I didn't quite get it. But I like it.

[ImperialKnight]

Russ Bullock, on 29 September 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

Let's keep in mind that the Timber Wolf is flat out a tier 1 mech and it will remain a tier 1 mech when this change goes live.

Kain's point is that it will kill one variant of the mech entirely. People will just use the Prime and C exclusively after Basic-ing out the S variant. But that's not something new to this game, *cough Stalker*

[Russ Bullock]

knightsljx, on 29 September 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

Brace yourselves, Timberwolf Nerf is coming

The S variant fixed JJ slots?

Yes I suppose but didn't it kind of feel like an exploit before?

[Kain Demos]

Russ Bullock, on 29 September 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

Let's keep in mind that the Timber Wolf is flat out a tier 1 mech and it will remain a tier 1 mech when this change goes live.

No arguments from me. I just don't use jumpjets if given the choice (I prefer to dedicate all of my tonnage to MOAR WEAPONS) so this just means I no longer will use the TBR-S that is currently in my inventory. I still have two others to play with and will certainly buy a third (fouth) when they are out for C-Bills.

Edited by Kain Thul, 29 September 2014 - 02:54 PM.

[Jin Ma]

Thanks for the update.. before october even!

Amazing work with balance Russ. These are all very reactive and addresses some key issues at the heart instead of the balance chances we have been used to.

Feedback time!

Clan balance:
I don't really understand the point of loosing heat sinks when a clan side torso is lost from a balance perspective. I mean it doesn't really add much since Once a clan loses its side torso, it loses half its weapons, its not going to need half its heat sinks anyway.

I think a speed penalty is really the way to go.
Simply loosing half the weapons is not enough of a penalty for the advantage given by the XL engine.

In an IS mech, the advantages of a light XL is offset by the destruction of the ENTIRE mech when one side torso is gone. Nevermind half its weapons.

I think it would be a good idea to meet half way. And give clans the advantage of the XL engine, but only part of the disadvantage; In that the entire mech does not get destroyed, instead it will loose some speed.


IS Variant Balance:
Great work with the quirk system. Giving some variants a weapon proficiency nitch will really help to set them apart.
Besides quirks I think addition of hardpoints to some underused variants will really help allow these mechs to be played at full potential.
One example being the CDA-3C, which has 4B, 1E hard points; same as a spider. No amount of quirks will help this mech, whereas the change up to 2E hardpoints at the RT would really hit the spot and get the mech on par with its chassis peers

Edited by Jin Ma, 29 September 2014 - 03:16 PM.

[Rise or Die]

Great. Now you ruined all 3 of my Timberwolf builds since EVERYONE uses at least one Timberwolf-S omnipod and no jump jets. And now all three are broken.

If there are more fatal nerfs that break the Timberwolf even more im not playing this game anymore. Ive spend a lot of money the last 2 years for this.

Edited by Rise or Die, 29 September 2014 - 03:29 PM.

[1453 R]

Kanajashi, on 29 September 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

With 2 JJs fixed in the side torsos, there wont be any space to use the gauss on that TBR-S RT. 7 out of the 12 will be already used (2 armor, 1 structure, 2 engine, 2 JJs) leaving only 5 which is 1 too small for the 6 crit gauss.

Ergo, switch to the Prime RT and lose a laser in order to get the gun back on the 'Mech

Dunno whether I'll pop another heat sink onto it or bump the TC up to a Mk. II, though. Probably the heatsink option, though dropping a C-ERML out of the mix will do wonders for my heat bar anyways. If not my damage numbers/killing potential.

Le sigh...maybe one day I'll get a 1B/1E RT sans jump jets again. Anything's possible. And 6x C-ERML alongside a C-Gauss is still pretty solid.