744 replies to this topic

[focuspark]

How will stacking work of bonuses with modules?

For example:

The CN9-D gets a 40% reduction in cooldown time for the LB-10-X. A LB-10-X cooldown module could be slotted with skills at level 5, giving a 30% reduction in cooldown time.

How does this combine?

The LB-10-X has a unmodified cooldown time of 2.50 sec.

Is the multiplicative method used 2.5 * (1 - 0.4) * (1 - 0.3) = 1.05 sec
Or the additive method used 2.5 * (1 - (0.4 + 0.3)) = 0.75 sec

I'm assuming the multiplicative, but I thought I should check. Thanks!

Edited by focuspark, 20 October 2014 - 07:41 PM.

[YueFei]

focuspark, on 20 October 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

How will stacking work of bonuses with modules?

For example:

The CN9-D gets a 40% reduction in cooldown time for the LB-10-X. A LB-10-X cooldown module could be slotted with skills at level 5, giving a 30% reduction in cooldown time.

How does this combine?

The LB-10-X has a unmodified cooldown time of 2.50 sec.

Is the multiplicative method used 2.5 * (1 - 0.4) * (1 - 0.3) = 1.05 sec
Or the additive method used 2.5 * (1 - (0.4 + 0.3)) = 0.75 sec

I'm assuming the multiplicative, but I thought I should check. Thanks!

I read somewhere that it's non-intuitive, and that it speeds up the cooldown *rate*, not the cooldown time.

In other words, if you have a quirk that speeds up the cooldown rate by 100%, that doesn't mean the weapon has a cycle time of 0. It means it recycles twice as fast. You fire it twice as fast, the cooldown time is cut in half.

So you gotta invert it. 40% increase in cooldown rate would translate to 1/1.4 of the original recycle time, or 71.42% of the original cycle time. That makes it fire every 1.78 seconds, not every 1.05 seconds.

At least, that's what I think is going on. I could be wrong.

[Thorqemada]

In the new Quirk example i wonder that the Tier 4 HBK has way better Energy Wpns than the Tier 5 HBK - especially the Medium Laser be way way better for the Tier 4 HBK.

[focuspark]

YueFei, on 20 October 2014 - 08:10 PM, said:

I read somewhere that it's non-intuitive, and that it speeds up the cooldown *rate*, not the cooldown time.

In other words, if you have a quirk that speeds up the cooldown rate by 100%, that doesn't mean the weapon has a cycle time of 0. It means it recycles twice as fast. You fire it twice as fast, the cooldown time is cut in half.

So you gotta invert it. 40% increase in cooldown rate would translate to 1/1.4 of the original recycle time, or 71.42% of the original cycle time. That makes it fire every 1.78 seconds, not every 1.05 seconds.

At least, that's what I think is going on. I could be wrong.

That actually makes sense - it also means that they've copied the maths from WoW.

[PitchBlackYeti]

Hunchback 4G - Tier 5 Brawler

Additional Armor (RT) +18
Additional Structure (RT) +12
AC/20 Range +12.5%
Ballistic Weapon Range +12.5%
AC/20 Cooldown +12.5%
Ballistic Weapon Cooldown +12.5%
AC/20 Velocity +12.5%
Ballistic Weapon Velocity +12.5%
Energy Weapon Heat Gen -15%
Energy Weapon Range +15%

The newest approach to the quirks is great! That's exactly what many of us were hoping for, general bonuses with a cherry on top if you pick the "preferred" weapon but not as severe to discourage the use of other loadouts! Keep it up, I hope the Awesome will also keep general energy bonuses with small bonus to PPC

Edited by PitchBlackYeti, 20 October 2014 - 10:28 PM.

[PaGn]

Quote

IS Quirk pass update

Splitting the boni is an excellent idea!
I was a bit afraid that the stacking of weapon-specific quirks would create a lot of One-Trick-Mechs and little space for individual builds.

Keep up the good work!

[Ovion]

Split bonuses is good, and what was described originally.

Each mech getting 2 Bonuses per level of Tier at *2.5 the Tier works out pretty nicely tbh.
Now, if that translated into the ECM/JJ thing of removing 1 quirk, so that say, the Jester at Tier 3 would have 6, reduced by 1 for JJ to 5, that'd be better too. (It'll probably be still 2(4), but we can dream)

technopredator, on 20 October 2014 - 10:48 PM, said:

Well I think the efficiency of the weapons are increasing while the armor stays the same, I made a suggestion for armor points to increase but wasn't even read by the mods/admins of this forum, and some people that are knowledgeable of Battletech has told me that no IS nor Clan weapons fire the damage they do on MWO, was a lot less and it should specially with the clan weapons, that are ridiculous overpowered and the reason I almost don't play this game anymore, tire to lose 12-0 several times in a raw by Timerwolfs, Direwolfs and StormCrows, the number of weapons is 2x of IS 'mechs and their firepower higher,
so this makes a c-'mech potentially 2-4x a IS 'mech, stupidly unfair and really short battles, so keep the unbalance and bringing more firepower with new 'mechs and weapons and you'll see the players playing this unbalanced game way down, myself included.

MWO armour (and I believe internal structure) values are doubled from Tabletop values.

TT is also an abstraction where a weapon can only fire once every 10 seconds (turn).
Logically, using MWOs base stats this should mean a weapon does twice the damage it would a turn, every 10 seconds in game. ('m not sure how the numbers work out, but it probably doesn't - maybe I'll go check)

[DeeSaster]

The new spin to the quirk system is very much appreciated! Terrific spin to the already good system. Very well done PGI!

[Antonius Prime]

In regards to the JJ changes, I have heard that JJ capable mechs will get 1 less quirk.

This makes sense, but can this not apply to the Jester? It has a max of 2 JJ and can't even jump onto terrain that is cockpit height currently (I think it is like 9.6m or something). This has completely neutered a large reason that I purchased it (and keep in mind that it is a Hero mech).

Instead of giving it one less quirk because of it having JJ, would you consider giving it that quirk and making it enhance the performance of the JJ it does have? So, if it would get 4 quirks, but that is reduced to 3 due to having JJ, make the 4th quirk a JJ enhancement quirk.

I ran it a few times after the first major thrust nerf, felt deflated at its JJ performance, and haven't been able to bring myself to run it since. I can only imagine the changes going on right now, such as thrust/JJ and turn/JJ, only hurting it even more. The mech is a Heavy with a maximum of 2 JJ. I miss my poor Jester.

Thank you for your consideration.

[MadLibrarian]

How about we just call it "Recycle Rate: +25%" or "Recycle Time: -25%" instead, since cooldown is generally a term used regarding Heat. Now is the time to make these minor changes that prevent confusion. (While you are accessing the quirks DB regularly.)


I hope PGI revisits some of the clan mechs as well, mostly just for the Nova. It can pretty much only boat beam weapons with ballistics being the only other hardpoint, but no tonnage for real usefulness. Doesn't need big changes, but -5%heat generation for C-ML or -5% Heat Scale penalty per weapon (even before hitting the 'ghost heat' range [I.e. 6xC-ML at once]. Just needs a little bit to get it back into the sweet spot of being able to fire 12xC-ML by sixes a half second apart effectively.

[JT Black]

Greetings, these are exciting times and much is being changed. There is no difference then older changes.

In MWO much is implemented,tested,taken advantage of for a period of time,not used or just changed at some point.Look back since closed beta and see how much was changed for the better.

We all have to live with it but having a discusdion is always a positive sign.

Just never get too attached to something that can still be subject to change.

At the end of the day both PGI staff and in particular Russ Bullock are updating us with dedicated work which unfortunately can't please everyone but i am positive that most is for the better.

Pacience and lets allow time for new changes to be implemented and tested.

PGI has a record of making things right.
Lets give them breathing space.

Kind regards Russ and the team behind you.

JT

[Duke Nedo]

Lovely decision, love it!!

[Neput Z34]

I wounder, wouldn't it have been simpler...

To rewrite the match maker, to take into the account estimated C-Bill value of Team A vs.Team B, instead of changing stats on all the IS mech to make them competitive with Clan mechs?

Each mech when saved would have the total value of it's weapons, upgrades, equipment, modules, ammo and engine rounded to the nearest 100k C-Bills. That value then assigned to mech ID, for example CTF-3D with a value of 11.3 mil C-Bills. Clan mech of approximately equivalent value would be a Storm Crow / Ryoken.

This creates a very distinct possibility that a Clan mech only team will be out toned, as they should be, considering their superior mechs and equipment.
Unfortunately not all clan and IS mechs live up to their price tags.

The search time may be horrendously long, but hopefully it will keep players with builds, circa 3025, going up against all Clan mech teams.

All we can do is wait and see, if the proposed "buffs" will make the IS mechs competitive with Clans, out side the light class.

[Escef]

Neput Z34, on 21 October 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

To rewrite the match maker, to take into the account estimated C-Bill value of Team A vs.Team B, instead of changing stats on all the IS mech to make them competitive with Clan mechs?

Simpler? Sure. Effective? THIS would be, by your standards, competing almost directly against the Stormcrow. Do your really think any Stormcrow jock that has any clue what he's doing wouldn't be able to eat that in seconds?

[Pjwned]

I'm happy to see the most recent quirk update is seeing weapon-specific quirks split up so that other weapons can at least partially benefit as well.

[Bluefalcon13]

Russ,

I know today and yesterday has required a flame proof suit in order to visit the forums... but I can think of one solution that would ease some of that. People are pretty upset about the timberwolf s side torso changes. I'm OK with the fixed JJs (cause I prefer sarna-stock mechs). With that being said:

I have seen a good portion of these complaints around builds that use double stack missiles, both custom builds and others like myself who run stock lore based builds. On solution would be timberwolf d side torsos. From my limited research they should only have 2x missle hard points.

Would kill some of the complaints.

Just an idea. Now, on the JJ changes. I am pretty happy with the JJ thrust changes so far. I haven't taken a light out yet, but my beloved summoner does feel much better. After I returned from a break(post thrust Nerf) I was SUPER disappointed by the JJ thrust nerf. Definitely an improvement.

Thanks for reading,
Bluefalcon13

[Oogalook]

I thank you sincerely for the early update to the Quirk system. While the first one was functional and good, but would have gotten a handful of players pretty pissed off, the new system is one which everybody can agree on and which still fulfills the original intent of the patch. Thank you!

[Moridan]

I'm sure this has been posted all over the forums here, but with limited time I wanted to give my thoughts.

The new reward system is really cool. I believe everyone likes it, but the c-bills received are extremely low. If you happen to lose a match, you will likely end up earning @$25K. If you used a consumable in trying to achieve a victory, you end up LOSING c-bills.

Please adjust appropriately.

Thanks.

[Summon3r]

in regards to the ballistic bonus's for example the hbk-4g 12.5% range/cooldown/velocity does this include guass? is guass considered ballistic or is it in a league of its own?

[Hoax415]

Should be considered ballistic unless it has a special exemption we haven't heard about.

Cooldown buff would not change gauss' special charge time though only the cycle time before you can start to charge again.

So that buff would be worth -.44 seconds of cycle time for a gauss rifle.