166 replies to this topic

[Xtrekker]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 September 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

your tundra runs a fusion reactor with all sorts of shielding and heat sinks on it?

Yes.

[Torgun]

MeiSooHaityu, on 30 September 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

The Clans cannot be far superior like cannon states because given the type of game we are playing, it would be poor game design. In a PvP environment like this, they need to be different but equal.

There was a reason many TT guys like the older pre-vlan eras, there was no Clans to muck up their balance. There is a thread going on now about how 3025 is often their favorite and on more than one occasion they site the Clans made a mess of things.

If Clans are far superior, what is the motivation to run IS? Just the challenge of it isn't good enough for 90% of any game community. CW where 90% of the gaming populace is Clan would kind of break things.

Even if we buffed the clans and dropped 12v8 or so (remember we buffed the Clans to their superior beauty), why would I still want to be IS? I have 33% less chance to earn rewards (c-bills and xp) because I have 33% less targets and if I get caught 1v1 in a match I am guaranteed to lose. You can buff IS rewards, but you can't buff KDR and and total kills.

It just isn't good multiplayer game design.

Good games known for excellent balance do well because of different but equal. StarCraft is a great example. Each faction (Zerg, Terrain, and Protoss) are radically different but equal. If the Protoss was way superior, everyone would pick it and it would break the game.

IS and Clan need strengths and weakness that compliment each other that makes both appealing and unique, but never superior to the other.

It breaks cannon, it messes with what I learned playing the old games, but it is the sacrifice made for player balance in a purely multiplayer game with what we have to play with.

Many will disagree I suppose, and they have good reason, but they don't see how badly it can break the entire game.

Quoted for the g'damn truth.

[IceSerpent]

Xtrekker, on 29 September 2014 - 08:32 PM, said:

When I blow out 20% of my Tundra's engine, it doesn't move at all.

Losing 1 cylinder doesn't stop engine from running even when it's an i4 (it doesn't run very well, but vehicle still moves). I am fairly certain that losing 2 cylinders on v8 won't completely kill it either.

[Metus regem]

Torgun, on 30 September 2014 - 03:56 AM, said:

If the TW performed like the Summoner and vice versa, would it still be the most played Heavy? I really doubt it.

I would.

I run my Timber Wolf as far from Meta as you can get right now, though come the forced JJ's on it, I'm going to have to do some tinkering with her again...

TBR-D V2

[DONTOR]

ManDaisy, on 29 September 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

That actually makes a lot of sense. But still, 20% heat sink loss is too light for clans compared to instant death of IS mechs. I have no problem with IS instant death, but clan penalties are too light!

Now it were 3 heat sinks AND 33% speed decrease, that would be balanced.

dont you mean 20% speed decrease? That would be acceptable since it is only losing 20% of its engines capability / capacity / power.

IceSerpent, on 30 September 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

Losing 1 cylinder doesn't stop engine from running even when it's an i4 (it doesn't run very well, but vehicle still moves). I am fairly certain that losing 2 cylinders on v8 won't completely kill it either.

It will still run, just choppy. Atleast I've had my built Dodge Dart run on 6 out of 8.

[Chrithu]

I dunno: If my Clan Mechs would die from a destroyed side torso like IS mechs I for one would also demand to be able to change the engine size like IS mechs can.

[Metus regem]

Jason Parker, on 30 September 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

I dunno: If my Clan Mechs would die from a destroyed side torso like IS mechs I for one would also demand to be able to change the engine size like IS mechs can.

Or at the very least the option to use a standard engine....

[Torgun]

Jason Parker, on 30 September 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

I dunno: If my Clan Mechs would die from a destroyed side torso like IS mechs I for one would also demand to be able to change the engine size like IS mechs can.

I don't think I saw a single post in this thread that asks for death by destroyed side torso. But the 20% heatsink destruction is hardly enough for being able to survive a sidetorso destruction in an XL.

[Metus regem]

Torgun, on 30 September 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

I don't think I saw a single post in this thread that asks for death by destroyed side torso. But the 20% heatsink destruction is hardly enough for being able to survive a sidetorso destruction in an XL.

At that point I've already lost 50% of my fire power, so I'm more or less ****** anyways....

[hybrid black]

El Bandito, on 29 September 2014 - 08:40 PM, said:

Wait, so you lose 20% of your internal cooling when you lose 50% of your weapons?

This nerf is sooooo slight. PGI should implement scaling MS penalty in addition, depending on the engine rating.

This is kind of closed minded what about all the better players right loading there side and u seing the left torso and arm to tank? Its a big hit to that

[Torgun]

Metus regem, on 30 September 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

At that point I've already lost 50% of my fire power, so I'm more or less ****** anyways....

You think you're done because you've lost 50% of your weapons? Man you do give up easily.

[-Natural Selection-]

What I find funny is me and some of the guys I play with have been on here a few years and balance has never been an issue to us. Have always done pretty well, and just pick up whatever bs is put down and make it work. Have never understood how some have so many problems playing this game yet stay just to complain.

[Xtrekker]

IceSerpent, on 30 September 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

Losing 1 cylinder doesn't stop engine from running even when it's an i4 (it doesn't run very well, but vehicle still moves). I am fairly certain that losing 2 cylinders on v8 won't completely kill it either.

I'm not sure if that applies when the loss is due to destruction of those cylinders.

[Metus regem]

Torgun, on 30 September 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

You think you're done because you've lost 50% of your weapons? Man you do give up easily.

I'm usually in knife fighting range anyways, so once I've lost that much fire power, and haven't dropped someone yet, I'm in the weeds deep.

[Andross Deverow]

Torgun, on 30 September 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

More balanced mechs mean more mechs are useful, instead of most players just jumping into Clan mechs as some of them are just better than other mechs in their weightclasses. This is in the end a mulitplayer shooter, and a shooter with bad balance is bound to die prematurely. Since Clan mechs are matched 1 vs 1 against IS they have to be balanced as such. It doesn't matter how much Battletech lore you know, bad balance kills multiplayer games.

And I'm not asking for only what I want in this case, I'm asking for the devs to actually do what they said they would. And this engine heatsink destruction change is utterly meaningless and should be pointed out as such.

I tend to agree with this. There should be a minor performance penalty along with the 20% heat penalty. As mentioned in prior posts maybe just 10% reduction in speed added. This would at least be something of a penalty, 20% heat is nothing in the wider scope of things. As mentioned above in another post, if I blew 1/4 of my cylinders out of my V8 engine I would have some very noticeable performance issues.

Regards

Edited by Andross Deverow, 30 September 2014 - 09:59 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

FupDup, on 29 September 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

It's a holdover from TableTop rules. Basically, any mech dies when its engine gets critically hit 3 times. These crits can be performed even on the mech's CT, on a mech using a STD engine. IS XL engines have 3 slots per side torso, meaning that a side torso loss results in 3 instant engine crits -- therefore death. Clan XLs only have 2 crits per side, so they only get 2/3 dead.

Which is why I said buff IS XLs not nerf Clan XLs. Make it so IS mechs get the penalties when a ST gets knocked out rather than mech destruction. IS players get a buff and are happy while Clan players don't have to face a major nerf that is just going to piss them off royally and start up the negativity again.

[divinedisclaimer]

Reduce the damage bleed reduction from broken component hitboxes to the CT in 25% increments from wherever it is now until we're dying appropriately faster.

[Xtrekker]

Viktor Drake, on 30 September 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

Which is why I said buff IS XLs not nerf Clan XLs. Make it so IS mechs get the penalties when a ST gets knocked out rather than mech destruction. IS players get a buff and are happy while Clan players don't have to face a major nerf that is just going to piss them off royally and start up the negativity again.

I just think they should explore options that don't involve heat. Seems like that is just a temporary band-aid to fix all issues.

For example, a 30% reduction in torso twist speed? Or limited twist to the damaged side? Or an acceleration penalty? Or...anything that actually changes your play style other than pissing people off by shutting them down due to heat.

[Metus regem]

Xtrekker, on 30 September 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

I just think they should explore options that don't involve heat. Seems like that is just a temporary band-aid to fix all issues.

For example, a 30% reduction in torso twist speed? Or limited twist to the damaged side? Or an acceleration penalty? Or...anything that actually changes your play style other than pissing people off by shutting them down due to heat.

Why not just give the IS pilots the light engine? it's 75% of the weight of the standard, but same crit spaces as the Clan XL? the first prototypes of it are 3053, with full production in the 3060's... just move the time table up a bit.

[Mcgral18]

divinedisclaimer, on 30 September 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

Reduce the damage bleed reduction from broken component hitboxes to the CT in 25% increments from wherever it is now until we're dying appropriately faster.

If you apply that exclusively to the Tier 1 and possibly 2 Clan mechs, perhaps.