132 replies to this topic

[Tezcatli]

I voted Grasshopper only because I wanted a little more variety in the heavy tier. But I did so safe in the knowledge the Black Knight was winning anyway. Since I want to see Alex's take on it artistically. :3

[Nathan Foxbane]

Green Mamba, on 03 October 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

Will the Black knight have JJs though? I want those Fond memories of MW4 Mercs MP back

No, no it will not.

[WhiteRabbit]

.....but why should i vote for something that's most likely already outclassed by the 3d?

(yes the knight is prob useless to but at least it is looking good while beeing bad )

[Xtrekker]

Tactics Grasshopper concept



Hammer Drone

Edited by Xtrekker, 03 October 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Your missing some very important facts.

1 - 75 tons has always been the sweet spot for mechs. It is the weight that offers the absolute best combination of speed, armor and available tonnage for weapons and other equipment. This alone will make it superior to the Awesome and that doesn't take into account the the Black Knight "SHOULD" be narrower which should make it more durable hehe.

2 - The Grass Hopper is also an energy boat. In fact it has near the same hard points as the Black Knight with the only difference being a Missile in the head of all places. Personally I can't think of a more useless place for a missile, especially on an IS mech when most missile launchers take up 2 or more crit slots.

3 - Either mech is going to run hot due to all that reliance on energy. However again going back to the 75 tons being the sweet spot, the Black Knight will potentially have more tonnage available for DHS. Also while JJs are an optional thing on IS mechs, devoting 4 tons to them means even less DHS to cool off the mech.

4 - Black Knight has a bigger stock engine which means it will have a bigger max engine which means it will potentially have more speed and agility than the Grasshopper.

5 - Lastly, JJs suck so badly on heavy mechs right now, that they are kind of waste of tonnage that could better used for 4 more DHS. If JJs were as useful as they were pre-nerf, well I probably would say they offered enough of an advantage to offset all the reasons I think the Black Knight is better now, but unless they undergo some major buffage, they aren't useful enough to counter the 4 reasons I listed above why the Black Knight is potentially better.

[El Bandito]

Viktor Drake, on 03 October 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

Your missing some very important facts.

1 - 75 tons has always been the sweet spot for mechs. It is the weight that offers the absolute best combination of speed, armor and available tonnage for weapons and other equipment. This alone will make it superior to the Awesome and that doesn't take into account the the Black Knight "SHOULD" be narrower which should make it more durable hehe.

By that logic the Grasshopper should be even narrower. Besides, sweet spot means little when all you are boating is light weight energy weapons. One should look for more utility, which the JJ provides.

Viktor Drake, on 03 October 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

2 - The Grass Hopper is also an energy boat. In fact it has near the same hard points as the Black Knight with the only difference being a Missile in the head of all places. Personally I can't think of a more useless place for a missile, especially on an IS mech when most missile launchers take up 2 or more crit slots.

A single SRM4 is a low heat weapon to have in brawls on an energy only mech. Besides, the Grasshopper does not even need that missile slot to perform optimally.

Viktor Drake, on 03 October 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

3 - Either mech is going to run hot due to all that reliance on energy. However again going back to the 75 tons being the sweet spot, the Black Knight will potentially have more tonnage available for DHS. Also while JJs are an optional thing on IS mechs, devoting 4 tons to them means even less DHS to cool off the mech.

Sweet spot or not, an all energy Heavy mech is going to be bad, no matter how you slice it. Especially if it has no JJs to snapshot the enemy while cooling under cover. As for devoting tonnage for JJs, there is one big reason why the 70 ton 3D is superior than the 75 ton Orion. And that reason is JJ.

Viktor Drake, on 03 October 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

4 - Black Knight has a bigger stock engine which means it will have a bigger max engine which means it will potentially have more speed and agility than the Grasshopper.

You have no basis for that assumption. They both move at the same speed and engine rating difference is only 20 which is completely acceptable for 5 ton discrepancy. Logically they will still move at same speed and have the same agility in M:WO. The chief difference is that Grasshopper has the option to mount JJs to become even more mobile, to better shield itself, to better pull off a snap shot, while BK cannot.

Viktor Drake, on 03 October 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

5 - Lastly, JJs suck so badly on heavy mechs right now, that they are kind of waste of tonnage that could better used for 4 more DHS. If JJs were as useful as they were pre-nerf, well I probably would say they offered enough of an advantage to offset all the reasons I think the Black Knight is better now, but unless they undergo some major buffage, they aren't useful enough to counter the 4 reasons I listed above why the Black Knight is potentially better.

JJs are getting buffs very soon according to Russ. Again, even with the current JJ nerf, 3D and Victors are still top tier mechs. Only 1 ton per JJ is still a great deal for a 70 ton mech.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 October 2014 - 07:31 PM.

[El Bandito]

Vassago Rain, on 03 October 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

Actually, the orion has a whole bunch of other crippling problems, chief of which is that it has NO ADVANTAGES WHATSOEVER.

I guess you can put LRM100000000000 in the missile arm one, but that's it.

By that logic, the Black Knight also has NO ADVANTAGES WHATSOEVER. I guess you can spam energy weapons but that's it. Grasshopper at least has JJs for added mobility, and CT slot should the ST hitboxes come out bad.

Look, I fully understand that you want the BK badly because it was made by Kong in lore, thus it is your baby mech, but you should not go around and say the BK is the better mech, cause it is not. You just lose credibility when you keep on insisting that.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 October 2014 - 07:22 PM.

[Green Mamba]

That looks like a Heavy Gear Mech

[El Bandito]

Green Mamba, on 03 October 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

That looks like a Heavy Gear Mech

Or Armored Core. I love the head model of the Grasshopper. Very exotic. Supposedly Alex's Grasshopper art is very sexy according to Russ.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 October 2014 - 07:58 PM.

[Alek Ituin]

El Bandito, on 03 October 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

Or Armored Core. I love the head model of the Grasshopper. Very exotic. Supposedly Alex's Grasshopper art is very sexy according to Russ.

That's not saying much though...

Alex's art is always sexy. I'd love to see it either way, but they probably don't want to tease us by releasing the art, and then not releasing the Mech.

[SecretMantis]

Vote Grasshopper!

[Escef]

Lefty Lucy, on 03 October 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

Outside of use as a BV-filler the urbanmech is trash on TT, it would be even worse in MWO, and what used to be a joke has been blown way out of proportions by a user-base that spams too many memes.

Urbie makes for a surprising good ambush unit, especially in (duh) cities and heavily wooded areas. Against other lights the 10 point hit from the Urbie's AC can shear off limbs, meanwhile the Urbie's armor can soak the 2, 3, and 5 point hits that other lights will scatter over it. Post clan invasion, however, the Urbie needs a Gauss, AC20, or large UAC (10 or 20) and probably Reflective armor to maintain any kind of relevancy.

As for MWO, I'd be quite happy to see the defense turrets replaced with AI Urbanmechs. Just add a cone of fire to their shots to simulate imperfect human aim and it should (hopefully) work.

[STEF_]

UP!

VOTE GRASS NOW!

[SgtMagor]

I think  when Russ makes these polls, he should post the concept art of the mechs, give peeps a little more incentive to vote when they can actually see what there voting for... Go Grasshopper!

Edited by SgtMagor, 04 October 2014 - 01:16 AM.

[El Bandito]

Alek Ituin, on 03 October 2014 - 10:46 PM, said:

That's not saying much though...

Alex's art is always sexy. I'd love to see it either way, but they probably don't want to tease us by releasing the art, and then not releasing the Mech.

That is true. Alex' art has always been top notch and I believe both mechs will be aesthetically pleasing. Personally I judge mechs on ability rather than looks, and Grasshopper fits the bill more.

[Vassago Rain]

El Bandito, on 04 October 2014 - 02:01 AM, said:

That is true. Alex' art has always been top notch and I believe both mechs will be aesthetically pleasing. Personally I judge mechs on ability rather than looks, and Grasshopper fits the bill more.

>face missile.
>less lasers than black knight.
>70 tonner that's gonna need a big XL to keep up with the fast attack mechs.
>lower engine cap than BK.
>5 tons less.

[kapusta11]

Both mechs WILL suck because they are 70+ ton energy boats, ggclose.

[Escef]

Vassago Rain, on 04 October 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

>lower engine cap than BK.

This is an ill informed point. If engine caps end up being identical to that of the Orion and Cataphract (1X, 2X, and 3D), which have the same tonnage and base speed as the Black Knight and Grasshopper (respectively), then the Grasshopper would be slightly faster than the Knight with both using maxed out engines.

The lower engine cap would only be relevant in that the Knight would be able to squeeze 1 more additional heat sink into the engine.

[El Bandito]

Vassago Rain, on 04 October 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

>face missile.
>less lasers than black knight.
>70 tonner that's gonna need a big XL to keep up with the fast attack mechs.
>lower engine cap than BK.
>5 tons less.

Face missile has more damage and less heat than face MLaser.

GHR has enough slots for a 70 tonner to boat PPCs/ERLLasers + ML/MPLs in order to be effective. More energy slots does not mean **** if the mech is not cool enough.

BK is 75 tonner that needs even bigger engine to keep up with the faster mechs.

Slightly lower engine cap means **** because GHR is 5 ton less and has just as much move speed and agility as the BK.

Grasshopper is most likely to be slimmer than the Black Knight.

More importantly, Grasshopper HAS JUMP JETS which allows it to spread damage better, twist faster, traverse terrain easier, and snipe better. That's something 5 tons (3.5 actually because of the BK's need to carry larger engine, and only 2 tons of difference if using Std engine) will never cover.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 October 2014 - 02:42 AM.

[STEF_]

Come on guys!

GRASSHOPPER!
We need fresh air, grass is green, we can fly in the sky...with jj.

black knight .... we already have seen it in mw4. we already have laser boats...

GRASSHOPPER VOTE NOW!