348 replies to this topic

[KuroNyra]

Clint Steel, on 03 October 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

Many shooters have a "randomness" added to your aim when you are moving/looking around, like Rainbow Six.

I think this could help fight pinpoint. You could still get your perfect aim if you took just a little longer to aim, but the quick fire at the hip perfect aim would be limited.

Apparently, people tend to prefer there godlike aim system...
A pistol even if holded solidly to the ground by a system won't hit the exact same place twice. The bullet will **** a little during his course.

[Voivode]

Didn't BT have a system the reduced your chances for hit if you went over a certain amount of heat? Perhaps heat management and builds that more like the TT stock builds would become more valuable if having higher heat meant that your shots might not go quite where you wanted them to.

However, I am not one of those people who hates ghost heat. I understand why it's in the game and haven't found it to be especially harmful to my game experience.

[KuroNyra]

Fierostetz, on 03 October 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

"Of course"? Based on *what*? Someone posted a source link saying it creates recoil, but that doesn't really make sense if a PPC is supposed to be some sort of a particle accelerator. :sigh: even the canon source material is stupid.

Based on the Lore of the entire univers we are talking about?
Some people speak about "realism". But can we argue about realism on that franchise? Giant mech walking with not so pratical form, etc etc.
A lot of thing could be argued.

The CANON source say the PPC create recoil. So it should. Period.

[cSand]

Adiuvo, on 03 October 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

I really don't consider pinpoint damage a problem.

AMEN

[occusoj]

Quote

A pcc wouldn't either. Same with a gauss.

PPC has it, Gauss most definately has it beeing just a projectile accelerator that doesnt use gas pressure.

Quote

but that doesn't really make sense if a PPC is supposed to be some sort of a particle accelerator

Accelerating a mass will produce an opposing force. No matter if you throw a stone at a target or accelerate, for example, electrons in a vacuum tube.

I enjoy playing ppc/gauss builds so Im fine with no recoil. Nontheless I think its a bit off for weapons in up to 5 different locations on a walking platform to instaneously and perfectly converge everywhere and instaneously.
Mechs that move should get some penalty on accuracy. Maybe as a function of weight, speed and weapon location. CS and BF for example had some form of inaccuracy on most weapons while you ran around and still had a comp. scene where money could be won.

Taking a system that usually distributes damage by the roll of a dice and transforming that to player-aimed pp(fld) is asking for trouble. TTK is quite on the low end of where it should be IMHO.

Torsotwisting is nice if people are aiming for everything thats not your legs. Also, to shoot me, a mech has to face me. So all I need to do is either wait for my target to twist so far that I can actually hit the weak rear armor or twist back to hit front CT. 2xgauss and/or ppc as well as IS AC rounds cant be spread by twisting.

[Clit Beastwood]

Noth, on 03 October 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

So people already know that cof and randomness is pretty much completely out the window and instead of trying to find other way to fix the issue, you just keep saying to use what is already said to be out of the question...

welcome to mwomercs.com

[stjobe]

I think I'm just going to post this whenever the "MAH SKILLZ! RNG IS TEH DEBUL!" brigade start posting their nonsense:



Yeah, so that's the US Army there, and a chart about precision in rifle marksmanship and expected hit picture variance. About 25 inches is their goal for a .50 sniper rifle at 1,000 meters. A single, bipod-mounted sniper rifle, not four to ten multi-ton weapon systems mounted on different moving locations on a walking and running platform.

No randomness, my sweet lower rear center torso.

[Clit Beastwood]

KuroNyra, on 03 October 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Apparently, people tend to prefer there godlike aim system...
A pistol even if holded solidly to the ground by a system won't hit the exact same place twice. The bullet will **** a little during his course.

curious what word got filtered - s k e w?

[cSand]

KuroNyra, on 03 October 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

If you want to destroy them, you don't really have a choice.

Really?

Your only choice to destroy a AC40 jager is to face hug them?

[KuroNyra]

Fierostetz, on 03 October 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

curious what word got filtered - s k e w?

s.h.i.f.t

cSand, on 03 October 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

Really?

Your only choice to destroy a AC40 jager is to face hug them?

When you are using a brawler build or are in a place where long range engagement are not possible like a urban city. Yes, most of the time you need to come to the contact in order to have a shot on them.
If they are smart, they won't stay in the open for you because they know they won't be able to hit you.

So yeah, really. In some situation you HAVE to go to the contact.

[Eddrick]

If you want to play with a heavyer degree of randomness then we already have. Mechwarrior Tactics is that way ----->

If spread is totaly predictable and can be compensated for. I'm fine with that. But, a totaly random Cone of Fire, I'm not okay with.

An example of a predictable spread is one were convergance stops at a set point. You know where all of you weapons will hit, every time. It can be compensated for by adjusting aim for every weapon, while fireing each one at a time. Which, promotes chainfire. Then you can add Recoil to make rapid cainfire more difficult.

[Rhaegor]

I think accuracy and such is fine as is.

[cSand]

KuroNyra, on 03 October 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

s.h.i.f.t



When you are using a brawler build or are in a place where long range engagement are not possible like a urban city. Yes, most of the time you need to come to the contact in order to have a shot on them.
If they are smart, they won't stay in the open for you because they know they won't be able to hit you.

So yeah, really. In some situation you HAVE to go to the contact.

[KuroNyra]

Eddrick, on 03 October 2014 - 03:20 PM, said:

If you want to play with a heavyer degree of randomness then we already have. Mechwarrior Tactics is that way ----->

If spread is totaly predictable and can be compensated for. I'm fine with that.

Yes, in my idea, you could compensate for it, but you wouldn't have perfect aim like it's the case.

You wouldn't miss a Dire Wolf at 10 meter.

[KuroNyra]

cSand, on 03 October 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

You really are THAT kind of guy aren't you? Thinking that's there is no situation who force you to engage right?

[Foxfire]

I don't consider pin point damage a problem. I consider instant convergence a problem. I personally am not a fan of adding any Random number generator mechanic, such as a CoF, but I am a fan of adding a system that requires slow movement and time to get that 'perfect shot'. By adding a time based convergence system, you can allow for predictable performance while waiting for convergence and you allow for the choice between accuracy and mobility.

[cSand]

KuroNyra, on 03 October 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

You really are THAT kind of guy aren't you? Thinking that's there is no situation who force you to engage right?

No I actually prefer if we all just sat around rolling D20s to decide who hits

Edited by cSand, 03 October 2014 - 03:31 PM.

[Eddrick]

KuroNyra, on 03 October 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

Yes, in my idea, you could compensate for it, but you wouldn't have perfect aim like it's the case.

You wouldn't miss a Dire Wolf at 10 meter.

At point blank range. It wouldn't make much differance what kind of spread you try at add. Even all of the pellets of a Shotgun will hit the same location at a range close enough to reach out and touch them.

[Xanquil]

As been stated in so many other threads, perfect instant pinpoint convergent alpha strikes are the core of so many problems with MWO.
However as much as COF is hated (and feared) it is the easiest and most common way to simulate the large number of unseen, unforeseen, and just out on out unknowable issues that can come up while in combat.
In addition COF is an easy way to tweak weapon balance, Mech balance, and add variables for movement/heat.
As much as I hate COF It is really the easiest to explain to new players, mostly because it is in almost every other FPS out there already.
As long as it gives a reason for people to do something other than alpha strike all day,(like chain fire, single fire weapons) than I say add a COF to alpha strikes.
In addition It will increase TTK, make several of the "non competitive" mechs (because of hit boxes) much more viable. Andgo a long way to making this "a Battletech game" like it says under the MechWarrior Online logo.

[KuroNyra]

Foxfire, on 03 October 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

I don't consider pin point damage a problem. I consider instant convergence a problem. I personally am not a fan of adding any Random number generator mechanic, such as a CoF, but I am a fan of adding a system that requires slow movement and time to get that 'perfect shot'. By adding a time based convergence system, you can allow for predictable performance while waiting for convergence and you allow for the choice between accuracy and mobility.

Instant-Convergence, thank you. I was searching how to name the problem.

cSand, on 03 October 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

No I actually prefer if we all just sat around rolling D20s to decide who hits

You really are that kind of person, not reading nor trying to understanding.
Basicly, the typical low-class wannabetroll. How typical.