124 replies to this topic

[Roland]

Dimento Graven, on 07 October 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

So, the player base of people who will play this game seriously is AT LEAST:

2,834.

(edit: by 'seriously' I mean play it multiple times a week)

You realize that's a RIDICULOUSLY small number of players for an online game, right?
Like, that's pretty much totally dead.

[KraftySOT]

Dimento Graven, on 07 October 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

No, his 'maths' are wrong and his ability to observe is also very extremely bad.

There's a pretty large player base actually, just take the final 'qualifying wins' CBILL award:

28,341,000,000

To be pessimistic you can say that the number represents ONLY the number of players that got the maximum 10,000,000 cbill award, divide total award by the maximum you can earn and you get:

2,834.1

So, the player base of people who will play this game seriously is AT LEAST:

2,834.

(edit: by 'seriously' I mean play it multiple times a week)

Obviously not EVERYONE was able to win the maximum 10,000,000 (unfortunately I didn't), and most of the people I regularly play with didn't, so you can assume that the player base number is some MULTIPLE greater than 2,834.

My belief is that PGI was conducting various handicapping experiments, doing live fire calculations of target Elo vs shooter Elo, if the difference between the two was greater than X, then the damage dealt was being adjusted.

I know that there WAS a switch flipped around 11:45PM Sunday night and things went back to 'normal'.

If the playerbase was only 5,000 people. PGI would be closing its doors or in very dire straits, or have the thinnest budget in the world for development.

Also that means that at any given time, only 50 or so people will actually be on.

Im sure the playerbase is in the 15,000 range, with around 250 people on most of the time, and 500-700 during peak.

This is still abysmally small. If they dont do something about that in the next two to three years, theyre bankrupt.

Roland, on 07 October 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

You realize that's a RIDICULOUSLY small number of players for an online game, right?
Like, that's pretty much totally dead.

Even 10,000 is pretty much dead. If thats your total player base, including the 'play an hour a week' people...your game is empty.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kassatsu, on 06 October 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:

You better have immediately said something to the effect of [redacted] or "ggclose" in all chat.

Heh.

Exactly what happened. Had a group of 3 in Terra Therma not long ago, and they rolled in like the owned the caldera, but apparently forgot the average randoms are not quite so assertive. 3 out of the first 4 enemy deaths were those guys. Each one punctuated by a GGClose.

It's a bit of a different game when you don't hve 7-11 of your closest friends (with fellow Lords or mix SJR drops) watching your back.

Of course, if they weren't so good in concert, killing them would hardly be noteworthy, now would it. So respect for the skills of many of them (though TBH, not ALL have impressed me on that front when you can get them 1v1), and their coordination and discipline.

Generally have a lot less respect for their attitudes.

Do find some of them break that mold, and several SJR players too, but really, the swaggering epeen attitude over a videogame has always made me question the social life of many "comp" players.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 October 2014 - 08:50 AM.

[Kassatsu]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 October 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

Do find some of them break that mold, and several SJR players too, but really, the swaggering epeen attitude over a videogame has always made me question the social life of many "comp" players.

Too bad for "some of them" that the tag alone is enough to make a good number of people generally dislike them. Stereotypes often exist because of a perceived majority doing something and in this case at least, it's correct more often than not. Maybe they want the negative attention and general dis-like. On the other hand, I'll admit I've had fun making people hate me in a few games here and there.

Kassatsu, on 06 October 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:

[redacted]

Wat. My interpretation of what I used was a contraction of the word "wrecked", which means exactly what it sounds like. Perhaps I haven't been hanging around the cool kids image boards enough lately and it has some sinister meaning behind it that I'm not aware of. Oh well.

Edited by Kassatsu, 07 October 2014 - 09:27 AM.

[Jonathan Paine]

Couple of fatal flaws with the matchmaker:
1. There is no penalty for rolling 12 of the best players in one team. The matchmaker will hold them for a few minutes (time for another drink), then give up on matching them against a similar team.
- Result: 12 great players get to pound the living daylights out of some random configuration of smaller teams

2. Elo is completely and utterly pointless for game rewards. We never see our Elo and the reward calculation for killing nevern00b and the best player in the game are the same.
- Result: 12 great players make tons of C-bills stomping newbies.

Well played PGI, well played!

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

I think that few forum posters understand how ELO or the matchmaker function.

AFAIK, there isn't an ELO hard or easy mode that separates new players from coming into contacting with competitive gamers.

Maybe a reason for new player retention not being the best. Rookies are immediately thrown to the sharks in the deep end of the pool without the benefits of learning the ropes against others on their level.

There isn't a line drawn in the sand dividing player's by experience. It simply attempts to balance the number of new pilots and veterans on both teams. If one team has 4 elite pilots, 2 of intermediate skill and 6 new player -- the opposing team tries to match those demographics.

It isn't a thing where every player on each team has near to the same ELO statistics. It shoots for a mean average rather than a demographics category.

In a sense, the matchmaker might be better if it adopted a bronze, silver, gold, platinum tier ELO model where players only came into contact with others of their skill level. Then again, it might not because they could form bad habits never having seen skilled pilots in action.

Either way, it would be nice if people recognized the lack of hard or easy mode in this game.. There is none!

[Voodle]

Duran Vancor, on 06 October 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

That's a nice sentiment. However I will never ever, not in a million years be as good as some of those players. And I shouldn't have to be. There are enough average players for me to compete with.

I agree, and possibly this hostile attitude is also keeping the playerbase smaller than it otherwise could be, which is really unfortunate. I can't get my friends to play this game cos they all think they're terrible at it (when really it just requires massive quantities of cbills to get the right upgrades, builds and modules to survive an average game).

I was kind of wondering what a Lord was, didn't realise they're a group

[Adiuvo]

Hades Trooper, on 07 October 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

doesn't mean there good,

my drunken fellow aussie mates faced a 10 man of them the other night. An 6 of us beat them.

i really think that just 1 meta jump snipe event doesn't make them the best team. In my pov a lot of good pilots don't see the game worth bothering to play at a supposely named competative level or find it boring to only run meta builds or that the event was run at a time that wasn't compatiable for a lot of people.

Nobody played 10s yesterday lol, too many people were solo dropping for the tourney.

I guess it did pay out though... our people placed the most out of any unit.

[Dimento Graven]

Voodle, on 07 October 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

I agree, and possibly this hostile attitude is also keeping the playerbase smaller than it otherwise could be, which is really unfortunate. I can't get my friends to play this game cos they all think they're terrible at it (when really it just requires massive quantities of cbills to get the right upgrades, builds and modules to survive an average game).

I was kind of wondering what a Lord was, didn't realise they're a group

Actually that brings up an odd point, with the HoL's anytime I would be in a match with ONE, I'd be in a match with as many as 4 or 5 others.

The rate at which they got stuck in the same match was astonishing, almost as much as constantly being MM'd up with them...

[Bilbo]

Dimento Graven, on 07 October 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Actually that brings up an odd point, with the HoL's anytime I would be in a match with ONE, I'd be in a match with as many as 4 or 5 others.

The rate at which they got stuck in the same match was astonishing, almost as much as constantly being MM'd up with them...

Stands to reason that if you group together a lot then your Elo scores would be very similar. If its high there are only so many pilots to match up with.

[poopenshire]

I don't get the point of this, they die just like everyone else.

I kill them and they kill me.

Last time I checked thats the point of the game.

[Dimento Graven]

Bilbo, on 07 October 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

Stands to reason that if you group together a lot then your Elo scores would be very similar. If its high there are only so many pilots to match up with.

I understand that, but I did not experience the same level of sync dropping with my fellow Rangers, quite a few of whom I group up and play with daily.

Rarely did I ever get grouped with a Ranger, and when I did it was always only ONE other Ranger, more often than not, we would be on opposite sides.

I just wish my MM experience with my own Rangers matched what I observed with HoL.

Do not misconstrue my words either, I don't really think they were always intentionally gaming the MM and attempting sync drops (I'm sure they probably understandably tried a few times, why not?), it'd just been nice to be matched up with my fellow RRB players.

My issue is not with sync dropping it's with the concept of having these stupid idiotic "solo only" challenges running in a TEAM based game.

There's a discontinuity of concept there that is only exacerbated to the extreme with a lack of in-game VOIP.

[Lyoto Machida]

OK...I'm revising my 50-100 players online at a time estimate to 24-48, max. Too many people on the forums posting and not enough playing for it to be 50-100 on at a time.

Perhaps our little game will grow enough someday (maybe to the 5000-10000 mark), where PGI will decide to reinstate the player counter.

No CW before player counter!

Elizander, on 07 October 2014 - 02:03 AM, said:

Sadly this is true. The game launched me and another guy in a 1v1 match because the other 48 guys out of the 50 online were already inside their 12v12s.

Look on the bright side...you got a free Solaris match without even having to have premium time. Did you win at least?

[Bilbo]

Lyoto Machida, on 07 October 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

OK...I'm revising my 50-100 players online at a time estimate to 24-48, max. Too many people on the forums posting and not enough playing for it to be 50-100 on at a time.

Perhaps our little game will grow enough someday (maybe to the 5000-10000 mark), where PGI will decide to reinstate the player counter.

No CW before player counter!



Look on the bright side...you got a free Solaris match without even having to have premium time. Did you win at least?

If I could play right now, I would.

[Dimento Graven]

Lyoto Machida, on 07 October 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

OK...I'm revising my 50-100 players online at a time estimate to 24-48, max. Too many people on the forums posting and not enough playing for it to be 50-100 on at a time.

Perhaps our little game will grow enough someday (maybe to the 5000-10000 mark), where PGI will decide to reinstate the player counter.

No CW before player counter!

Look on the bright side...you got a free Solaris match without even having to have premium time. Did you win at least?

What you're experiencing with the 'limited' pool of people to play against is a function of your playing habits, the other player's playing habits and MM.

MM is attempting to create matches with balanced Elo scores and balanced weight classes.

With the solo queue the job is much easier because it can assemble the 4/4/4/4 without having to worry about what groups have selected which 'mechs so it's just a matter of grabbing the right Elo's to keep the range difference between the two teams 'reasonable'.

So if you always play at the same times on the same days, and there's a group of two or three thousand players who ALSO share the same time/day preferences as you (why not, only 7 days and only 24 hours in each one), and YOU keep playing in the same weight class game after game after game after game, well quite reasonably the MM will select a lot of the same people because your Elo's are appropriate and your weight classes are appropriate and because you happen to be playing at the same time, launching at the same time, ending games at the same time, most of you get reselected for the same match.

It's only an appearance of a very small player pool.

Now... Change your days and times, change your 'mech class, and put in a random amount of time between each drop and you'll start seeing A LOT more "newer" names than you'd previously experienced.

I'd guess that, on average during NA primetime the total available player pool is upwards of 10,000 people moment to moment.

[XX Sulla XX]

It is larger than "2,834.". Lots of players do not opt in. If you look at numbers of things sold like Clan packs etc the player base is probably around 50k.

[Revis Volek]

Adiuvo, on 07 October 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

Nobody played 10s yesterday lol, too many people were solo dropping for the tourney.

I guess it did pay out though... our people placed the most out of any unit.

This may have something to do with you having A LOT of people in your unit as well....no matter there skill. Not as a knock but the more that compete the greater the chances of placing. CNC mixed 6 had me burnt out unfortunately and i did not get a chance to really try for the challenge.

XX Sulla XX, on 07 October 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

It is larger than "2,834.". Lots of players do not opt in. If you look at numbers of things sold like Clan packs etc the player base is probably around 50k.

The Forums has almost 600,000 members, take that as you wish, and at the time i checked 1,777 people looking at them...another kinda arbitrary number but its bigger then most of what we are putting up here and thinking on. Id say Sulla was right or close with his guess IMHO we have 50,000-80,000 core players. (including the few hour a week/weekend warriors) and maybe 130,000 total.

Edited by DarthRevis, 07 October 2014 - 11:36 AM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Dimento Graven, on 07 October 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

What you're experiencing with the 'limited' pool of people to play against is a function of your playing habits, the other player's playing habits and MM.

MM is attempting to create matches with balanced Elo scores and balanced weight classes.

With the solo queue the job is much easier because it can assemble the 4/4/4/4 without having to worry about what groups have selected which 'mechs so it's just a matter of grabbing the right Elo's to keep the range difference between the two teams 'reasonable'.

So if you always play at the same times on the same days, and there's a group of two or three thousand players who ALSO share the same time/day preferences as you (why not, only 7 days and only 24 hours in each one), and YOU keep playing in the same weight class game after game after game after game, well quite reasonably the MM will select a lot of the same people because your Elo's are appropriate and your weight classes are appropriate and because you happen to be playing at the same time, launching at the same time, ending games at the same time, most of you get reselected for the same match.

It's only an appearance of a very small player pool.

Now... Change your days and times, change your 'mech class, and put in a random amount of time between each drop and you'll start seeing A LOT more "newer" names than you'd previously experienced.

I'd guess that, on average during NA primetime the total available player pool is upwards of 10,000 people moment to moment.

Let's just clear something up here...post #3 was sarcasm.

I do appreciate the in-depth answer though, for anyone who may actually think what I posted was true.

[Nightmare1]

Duran Vancor, on 06 October 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

The thread title is pretty much the topic. Why does somebody like me face Lords or similarly skilled players? I'm as average as you can be, maybe below average since Clans arrived with the ones I want not available yet.

It's pointless when a match takes 2 minutes and ends with a 12:0 and a "ggclose", no?

Ulketulke, on 06 October 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Either the Matchmaker is crap or the playerbase is too small.
Choose whatever you like.

Or...perhaps he is simply better than he gives himself credit for?

Frankly, I've faced Lords several times, have killed them, and have been killed by them. They are good, but I can't say that they are markedly better than a lot of the pilots with whom I drop or fight. For me, the biggest thing is that any mistake you make is more deadly against them than any you may make against a random Pug.

That being said, you should also recall that not all pilots are equal. Perhaps the ones you face are the lesser Lords? They ones you have been seeing might not be the best that the Lords have to offer.

Lyoto Machida, on 06 October 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

There's only usually 50-100 people playing this game at once worldwide...you're lucky to play anyone at all.

That...was trolling.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

DarthRevis, on 07 October 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

This may have something to do with you having A LOT of people in your unit as well....no matter there skill. Not as a knock but the more that compete the greater the chances of placing. CNC mixed 6 had me burnt out unfortunately and i did not get a chance to really try for the challenge.

How many people do you think they have?

Just trying to clarify your definition of alot.