972 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

jackal404, on 08 October 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

Russ, what happened to the stated reason for the original poll - to reduce the stomps? I haven't seen much in the way of comments to indicate whether this game mode change did that.

It has not...all we saw all night was 12-2 stomps.

[Creovex]

Russ Bullock, on 07 October 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

I don't disagree on the ELO win/loss aspect - I have never liked it. I am more of a player that might get 400-500 damage and 8 assists but rarely get a kill. I am not really rewarded in game for what I feel in many matches is above average play yet when I lose my ELO goes down. Something in discussions for a long while yet. Time in our only enemy.

This is the more important issue, regardless of the other tweaks you are trying. If, and when you can adjust the ELO to take into account things such as assists/damage/recon/kills/etc.. then we can talk about all this other matching business. I think you should CEASE all changes with MM and focus solely on a new ELO formula.

Russ Bullock, on 07 October 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

The weight classes are actually matching up to a fairly large degree, at least the MM tries. It won't wait around for it, but if the MM has a 75 ton mech it will indeed look to see if there is one for the other side. This aspect works fairly well in the solo queue in fact our tonnage difference per team averages very low like ~20 tons difference.

Weight classes are important and I am glad they are matching up. Nobody ever said all heavies were equal nor should they. I should expect to take my Catapult and the enemy have a Timberwolf. LIFE IS NOT FAIR (something I drone into the heads of my kids all the time) and in battle, there is a fine line between something being an advantage versus being a disadvantage. (ie. Timberwolf in the right hands is a killing machine, however the Timberwolf in an overly cocky, slightly sloppy hands can lead to a quick, sub 100 death)....

Russ Bullock, on 07 October 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

Yes I don't have that functionality yet. I also do not want to remove any resources from CW to accommodate this poll. We need to live like this for a while longer.

Smart man.... You answered this concern with a realistic reason why you can't. THIS IS EXACTLY THE TYPE OF TRUTH I can say I have been waiting for since CB. Great honesty, bravo.

Edited by Creovex, 08 October 2014 - 04:59 AM.

[DeRazer]

Oooh. It's very close. Too close really for either side to be able to claim anything more than a technical win.

Just like in the recent Scottish Independence referendum something needs to happen and I think it's already been said.

If PGI just say "if you vote yes you will get extra CBills/XP for Captures and Holds in Conquest" the yes vote will soar.

Conquest is the bugbear for many - they either love it (Light pilots) or hate it (heavy/assaults). Increase the rewards, fix some of the spawns and positions, and give greater incentives for denials or re-captures (that heavies and assaults can do!) and perhaps it will balance out.

I also favour heavier mechs capping faster than lights - perhaps especially when de-capping - gives them more of an incentive to help out which together with bigger incentives would make for a fun game.

[xWiredx]

Again, as my feedback was probably ignored while this change was rushed in and I only left it early yesterday hours before the patch dropped, I am -for- this change but not for it until other things are in place. To vote on game modes, we need more of them. Not only game modes, but we also need the map voting in place, and we need better-defined roles. We need the voting to happen in a lobby, socially, rather than simply marking a preference and waiting for the matchmaker to do a random toss. That is good design, while the current design is pretty much garbage.

Also, as this implementation has definitely seen a large amount of negative feedback, myself included, I would hope that the poll remains open at least until the next patch drops (but maybe you could wait until you get at least as many votes as you get for the new mech polls). I, like any reasonable person, can take this in stride, loathe playing mostly skirmish matches for the next 2 weeks, and wait for real data. This poll is flawed though. It is currently a yes/no. Why isn't it a yes/no/yes with conditions/no with conditions/either way poll? I can pretty much guarantee that such a change in the poll itself would change the outcome. My vote is a "yes, with conditions" (as listed above).

Walking through the negatives on this current implementation really quick, as experienced by me:
-way too much skirmish
-longer, more boring matches without any real difference in match quality for solo drop (which PGI has said is the majority of players)
-bad, rushed design
-somewhat unexpectedly fast implementation with little community input when PGI has stated repeatedly that changing the MM was hard, long work (which is the reason why we couldn't have the 12v10 matches implemented)

[Gyrok]

Josef Nader, on 08 October 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

Frankly, I only selected/unselected modes to see how many times I got dropped into something I had unselected. The answer was not many.

I leave all the modes checked all the time, because I figure being able to play everything while piloting anything is the best way to mastering this game and improving my skills as a fictional stompy robot pilot.

I have zero qualms piloting a Locust in Skirmish, or a Dire Wolf in Conquest. I can do it all. I also remember a time long before we were allowed to choose what we could and could not play. I also remember when there was only one game mode and that's what you got.

Frankly, I've noticed a big improvement in the quality of matches I've been playing. Lots of closer games and better fights. As someone who recognizes that the current gamemodes are "shoot all the robots," "shoot all the robots," and "shoot all the robots, but you better do it fast because there is a timer ticking down," I'm completely lost as to why people care and what the difference is.

Ever since the base cap timer on assault got, like, tripled, all strategy has been drained out of that mode. Same with conquest. The base cap timers are so long that even the most geriatric assault can trundle up to the base before it gets flipped. The choice is an illusion. They're all the same.

Vote for closer matches.

Honestly, we dropped 20 matches last night WITH ONLY SKIRMISH CHECKED, and we dropped 19 matches on conquest/assault, 1 skirmish.

That skirmish match was about 15 in and as we started positioning somebody took a screenshot that there were no caps they were so excited to be in skirmish.

Not only that, we lost 19 of 20 last night, MM is borked for ELOs high enough to be the "best match" for sjr/lords all the time.

[Savage Wolf]

MAVRICK64, on 08 October 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

Savage Wolf that is the funniest post I have seen in a long time....thanks for making me laugh

My pleasure!

[SpiralFace]

jackal404, on 08 October 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

Russ, what happened to the stated reason for the original poll - to reduce the stomps? I haven't seen much in the way of comments to indicate whether this game mode change did that.

They are there, they are just being drowned out by those that are upset over this entire affair with the voting right now.

To add another voice to the matter, I see no difference in the matching in solo que, but the 2-3 games I've seen in group have been much better balanced between each other.

Keep in mind this doesn't mean that all games where not stomps. But in group, I didn't see players riding around in champion mechs with arms locked getting thrown to the wolves because they where obviously a 2-3 friends and new players getting fed to the wolves of the experienced players, I didn't see players resistant or unwilling to work as a team, and have seen noticeably less "timid" play when I was dropping in a 4 man. So while stomps do still happen in game, its not as FRUSTRATING as before with team mates, because for the most part, many of them know what is going on.

I would be for keeping the changes in group que and leaving solo players to pick and choose what they want to play. It doesn't seem to be doing much in solo que right now.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Creovex, on 08 October 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

Smart man.... You answered this concern with a realistic reason why you can't. THIS IS EXACTLY THE TYPE OF TRUTH I can say I have been waiting for since CB. Great honesty, bravo.

I thought the truth you were waiting for was since CB was CW?

[Creovex]

BLOOD WOLF, on 08 October 2014 - 05:03 AM, said:

I thought the truth you were waiting for was since CB was CW?

Well had they said it was 2 years out then, I still would have invested, but been less "angry" by a long shot! Several long time buddies dropped out in Year One because of these kind of misrepresentation.... Most of them Legendary like me and would still be here if we tried Open and Honest prior to the IGP boot.

At least they are doing a good job now it seems...

Edited by Creovex, 08 October 2014 - 05:07 AM.

[Wintersdark]

jackal404, on 08 October 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

Russ, what happened to the stated reason for the original poll - to reduce the stomps? I haven't seen much in the way of comments to indicate whether this game mode change did that.

Nowhere did Russ say the purpose of this was to reduce stomps.

People need to understand that stomps will always happen, no matter what, because that is the nature of the game and this sort of combat.

The stated goal was to reduce the Elo variance per match, so you'd be going I to matches with a closer to 50-50 chance to win.

[Bigbacon]

why can't you all just have some fun playing the rounds and using mechs that may or may not be the best in the known world?

not really bothering me either way. I don't play metamech online and I switch between all types of mechs all day long (unless trying to level up something)

Sounds like a lot of you just need some more variety.

Is conquest my favorite mode, no, will I play it, sure and I'll fight like skirmish or cap or both. depends on the mech.

pick mech, have fun.

[Barfing Gopher]

Here's an angle that should be considered. If you force a player into a game mode they don't like/play normally do you think they will A) Play their best and be a productive part of the team! or B ) Wander around aimlessly, complain because they are not having fun and suicide/discon. I'm seeing a lot of B, very little A. A vote to change something this major should require at least 75% of the player base to vote "yes." Having it pass on slightly more than 50% means you are making almost half of your players/customers angry. I voted "NO," not because I particularly hate any game mode, I play them all at times, but I play them when I want to. Almost everything in this game from what map, mech, and build I'm allowed to have is dictated to me already, this makes it less fun to me, and apparently many others as well. In short, maybe you can force people into modes they don't like, but they can just as easily quit the match until they get the mode they DO want.

Edited by Barfing Gopher, 08 October 2014 - 05:11 AM.

[Wolf Clearwater]

--------For the people making the complaining about conquest in slow assaults and heavies------
Conquest should be your "go to" mode!

Clearly you have not played conquest in quite a while. Lets use Alpine as an example:

On Alpine, in conquest mode - you start closer to the enemy than skirmish. Yeah, you heard right. Closer. On top of it, you know exactly where they are going (the three cap points you can't ignore in the middle of the map) You can shoot at least one of those points from where you start. There are fire lanes between them, missiles can reach almost all the way. Seriously, actually try conquest before you hate. The hardest map to get around on in conquest mode is Terra Therma - and that has the same tactic for assaults as the other modes. Stand in the center of Mt. Doom. I get the "standing in a square is boring". You should however, never be standing in that square for long. Unlike skirmish, where one team usually huddles in a single area.

I apologize if this sounds harsher than I intend.

There has already been some hinting at the game modes being tweaked (like shorter cap times). So the modes can have the possibility of changing.

There are some flaws to all the modes

In the matches I usually get:
1. Conquest is shorter, bloodier, and done faster than any other mode.
This usually means reduced rewards
(less reward for kills and assists because the resources are supposed to fill the gap is what I assume)
Conquest rarely has someone running and hiding for Gods know what reason (it happens, if the resource counter is close)

2. Skirmish usually has someone trying to save their KDR (or Gods know wtf they are doing) and the opposing team hunts them for 5 minutes

3. Assault is where you have to pry the last remaining mechs from behind a small turret screen

In the end, please don't be the whiny douchebag who dumps the match because they didn't get the mode they want. Thank you. (if you are a qq'ing whiny douche, please get offended now)

Edited by Wolf87535, 08 October 2014 - 05:16 AM.

[Monsoon]

Voted Yes.

Seriously, suck it up and learn to play outside your comfort zones.

Edited by Monsoon, 08 October 2014 - 05:13 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Gyrok, on 08 October 2014 - 05:00 AM, said:

Honestly, we dropped 20 matches last night WITH ONLY SKIRMISH CHECKED, and we dropped 19 matches on conquest/assault, 1 skirmish.

That skirmish match was about 15 in and as we started positioning somebody took a screenshot that there were no caps they were so excited to be in skirmish.

Not only that, we lost 19 of 20 last night, MM is borked for ELOs high enough to be the "best match" for sjr/lords all the time.

You know what's funny? If this is true and not exaggerated BS, that means most players in the group queue in fact prefer Conquest, or just don't care. So, the "Only Skirmish" crowd must be a lot smaller than people claim.

Pretty interesting tidbit.

Edited by Wintersdark, 08 October 2014 - 05:14 AM.

[SmurfOff]

Until you can change your mech allocation after the game mode selection is done, there is no point in randomizing the game types.

In the lore, which I am sure PGI is basing CW on, both objectives and force composition were all predetermined. I am cool with the "system" deciding things like game mode and drop weights, but let me pick from my stable which mech to bring. Use ELO to rank the selection process, so the more experienced pilots can drop what they choose, leaving the n00bs to pick the remaining tonnage.

[Jolly Llama]

Gremlinn, on 07 October 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

VOTE NO!!! Save mechwarrior.



Also if you want to get down to brass tax...shouldn't the people who pay for the free players to play get more of a vote than the free players? One of the problems with free to play games is that everyone has the same weight of a vote and an unequal investment.

I have quit buying things for real money in this game because of this very issue. Nerf whiners in the forums, most of whom do not have a forum badge indicating a purchase, have ruined many aspects of this game. I uave a shitload of heroes and two prerelease packages. I don't need any more to have fun. I can play for free all I want now, and will do so until some of the BS nerfs are rolled back. You have gotten your last drop of blood out of me PGI.

[Bigbacon]

Barfing Gopher, on 08 October 2014 - 05:11 AM, said:

Here's an angle that should be considered. If you force a player into a game mode they don't like/play normally do you think they will A) Play their best and be a productive part of the team! or B ) Wander around aimlessly, complain because they are not having fun and suicide/discon. I'm seeing a lot of B, very little A. A vote to change something this major should require at least 75% of the player base to vote "yes." Having it pass on slightly more than 50% means you are making almost half of your players/customers angry. I voted "NO," not because I particularly hate any game mode, I play them all at times, but I play them when I want to. Almost everything in this game from what map, mech, and build I'm allowed to have is dictated to me already, this makes it less fun to me, and apparently many others as well. In short, maybe you can force people into modes they don't like, but they can just as easily quit the match until they get the mode they DO want.

i bet most of the player base doesn't really care either way. Remember, forums are usually made up of just those who complain or like to complain for no reason other than to do so. you could never get that amount of the player base to actually sign up here and vote anyway.

[SmokinDave73]

If PGI choses going back to selecting game modes I think a 10% Cbill bonus for selecting all game modes will go a long way.
Example make 200k cbills on the match heres 20,000 cbills for selecting all game modes to help MM out. As suggsted by this thread http://mwomercs.com/...all-game-modes/

[Revengex]

You could justify forced mech types under your thinking.