88 replies to this topic

[KraftySOT]

Youre basically saying a machinegun and small laser are under powered.

An SRM2 is the smallest of the SRMs...its the small laser of SRMs.

Its not supposed to be equivalent to a medium laser rofl.

Dracol, on 12 October 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

So what do you consider a new player friendly weapon?

Lasers?

Edited by KraftySOT, 12 October 2014 - 08:02 AM.

[FupDup]

KraftySOT, on 12 October 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

Wah?

Its an SRM2...seriously wtf do you expect? It fires 2 missiles for 4 damage.

In a world of 50 armor in CTs average...what do you want it to do? Shoot lightning bolts? A medium laser IS better than an SRM and is supposed to be.

Why on earth would something thats meant to cause criticals, fight vehicles, load special ammo, and combat infantry...be a good brawling weapon?

Wheres the crack pile you guys are smoking off of...I want some too.

Because it requires the same tonnage as a Medium Laser before ammo is counted, and requires more tonnage after ammo is counted? And has the same optimal range but no extended range?

I don't judge the role of weapons based on some bulIshit flavor text entry. I base their role on what sacrifices they make. Risk and reward. I don't care about what Michael Stackpole said the SRM2 is supposed to do in his novels, I care about the weapon being worth its weight in a real-time game.

Edited by FupDup, 12 October 2014 - 08:13 AM.

[Dracol]

KraftySOT, on 12 October 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

Lasers?

Lasers I would place in mid-skill level area. Yes, its easy to get damage with them, but to get full damage it requires skill.

Compared to streaks which will deliver full damage on a hit. No aim required.

[FupDup]

KraftySOT, on 12 October 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

Youre basically saying a machinegun and small laser are under powered.

An SRM2 is the smallest of the SRMs...its the small laser of SRMs.

Its not supposed to be equivalent to a medium laser rofl.



Lasers?

And yes, the Small Laser is also woefully underpowered. The 1 ton Medium Laser is apparently allowed to compete against the 5 ton Large Laser (LL has more range, ML is more tonnage-efficient for damage) but having the SL compete with the ML that is just a smidgen heavier is clearly "heresy."

[Sorbic]

I agree they should be put back to 2.5. IS SSRM's got nerfed for no other reason than to bring the damage down to clan levels, not because they were doing too much damage. On top of that I think they should up the chance that they will hit the core. I understand why the spread mechanic was introduced but they hit center mass to infrequently.

[Thorqemada]

Streaks be crap bcs they have a RNG what part of a Mech they hit and that means that they may ignore red parts a whole while and hit healthy parts.
It was changed bcs of the 5x and 6x SSRM Streakageddon Mechs that could core a Mech with no effort.
Though they now went to far to the other side instead of basing the spread on the number of tubes they went for total RNG invalidating a Weapon that would be helpful for not only new Players but also such Players with Hardware/Conection disadvantages.

The first 2 tubes of a IS-Streak-SRM should allways aim the upper Center Mass, (CT) and each 2 tubes more they should spread out hitting STs/Arms/Legs.

That would make small Streak tube counts viable and prevent overpowering high tube counts.

Keep in mind that Torsotwisting prevents you from being hit at weak Locations like it does against Lasers and Guns - Streaks can still not travel through a Mech.

Edited by Thorqemada, 12 October 2014 - 08:17 AM.

[KraftySOT]

FupDup, on 12 October 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

Because it requires the same tonnage as a Medium Laser before ammo is counted, and requires more tonnage after ammo is counted? And has the same optimal range but no extended range?

I don't judge the role of weapons based on some bulIshit flavor text entry. I base their role on what sacrifices they make. Risk and reward. I don't care about what Micheal Stackpole said the SRM2 is supposed to do in his novels, I care about the weapon being worth its weight in a real-time game.

Ah so "corerule ignore"

Welp youre useless, as is your opinion.

Moving on...

Oh and some RNG hate....cool. Why dont you guys just stop playing MWO already instead of whining about this stuff for years when clearly the devs arent ignoring corerules, and it says "A Battletech game" underneath the header on the main page.

Your SRM2s are going to be useless right up until they add in ammo types and a better critical system.

Then your SRM2s can load Infernos, and you can crit with them. Until then...stop bloody mounting them
.

Edited by KraftySOT, 12 October 2014 - 08:15 AM.

[Dracol]

Thorqemada, on 12 October 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

The first 2 tubes of a IS-Streak-SRM should allways aim the upper Center Mass, (CT) and each 2 tubes more they should spread out hitting STs/Arms/Legs.

That would make small Streak tube counts viable and prevent overpowering high tube counts.

Not a bad idea, until you factor in chain fired missiles. Then (unless they implement a hidden rule, which IMHO is not a good game design mechanic) you have streak boats launching missiles not all at once, but in sequence to always hit CT.

[FupDup]

KraftySOT, on 12 October 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

Ah so "corerule ignore"

Welp youre useless, as is your opinion.

When the "corerule" has issues, then yeah those specific parts probably could be "ignored." No, "corerule" is not flawless, not even in the much beloved 3025 era.

KraftySOT, on 12 October 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

Moving on...

Oh and some RNG hate....cool. Why dont you guys just stop playing MWO already instead of whining about this stuff for years when clearly the devs arent ignoring corerules, and it says "A Battletech game" underneath the header on the main page.

Your SRM2s are going to be useless right up until they add in ammo types and a better critical system.

Then your SRM2s can load Infernos, and you can crit with them. Until then...stop bloody mounting them
.

Ammo types and critical hit systems didn't do diddly for the SRM2 in Tabletop. All SRM launchers can use the ammo types, and for 2 tons (SRM2 + ammo) you could just use 2 Medium Lasers (2 tons) for the same critical hit chances with more damage but no ammo to explode and kill you.

No, I'm not mounting them right now, because of the reasons aforementioned. But you know what? I would like a reason to mount them. I know that Tabletop taught you that it's okay for 3-5 weapons to dominate the crap out of everything else, but that doesn't turn out very fun in a video game.

Edited by FupDup, 12 October 2014 - 08:26 AM.

[Thorqemada]

No, the Hittable is based on the tube count, not on the fire mode.

Edited by Thorqemada, 12 October 2014 - 08:30 AM.

[Dracol]

FupDup, on 12 October 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

No, I'm not mounting them right now, because of the reasons aforementioned. But you know what? I would like a reason to mount them. I know that Tabletop taught you that it's okay for 3-5 weapons to dominate the crap out of everything else, but that doesn't turn out very fun in a video game.

If your skill level has advanced to the point where you don't need help landing damage, then maybe the reason to mount them has been alleviated?

[Bishop Steiner]

Dracol, on 12 October 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

Lasers I would place in mid-skill level area. Yes, its easy to get damage with them, but to get full damage it requires skill.

Compared to streaks which will deliver full damage on a hit. No aim required.

Nope, just friendly counter ecm or BAP if multiple ecm mechs are not in proximity. Considering the prevalence of ECM in game, having to know about, pack and use a counter (which only works if you come across the ecm solo, and not in a pck), I consider it still pretty much more of a noob trap, than friendly.

I consider very few weapons "ezmode" in terms of results. LRMs may be spammed, but tend to be inefficient, and have very low accuracy %s, usually lowest in the game. Streaks may be "fire and forget" but are easily countered, and generally very ineffective at actually bringing down mechs,with their spread, even against Lights, now.

Yes any idiot can use them ineffectively, but I find the whole elitists "no skill, auto aim mode" in general to be kinda laughable, since to use any of those systems EFFECTIVELY, considering range limitations, hard counters, spread damage, etc, takes considerably more skill than using hitscan lasers.

[Ghogiel]

I'll gladly "core rule ignore" than use the fallacy from CBT argument to base my reasoning on.

[FupDup]

Dracol, on 12 October 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

If your skill level has advanced to the point where you don't need help landing damage, then maybe the reason to mount them has been alleviated?

I was talking about the regular SRM2, not the Streak 2.

But while we're at it, having the whole Streak family exist just as a "crutch" for newbies is silly. Weapons shouldn't be confined to the Steering Wheel Underhive for viability.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 12 October 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

I was talking about the regular SRM2, not the Streak 2.

But while we're at it, having the whole Streak family exist just as a "crutch" for newbies is silly. Weapons shouldn't be confined to the Steering Wheel Underhive for viability.

swaggering epeen about the viability and use of weapons is pretty laughable, too. But that's just me. I almost get it from a top comp, (though it's still pretty lame) but when other people start knocking a weapon, because they simply dislike the mechanic, meh, it's hard to take it seriously.

[KraftySOT]

FupDup, on 12 October 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

When the "corerule" has issues, then yeah those specific parts probably could be "ignored." No, "corerule" is not flawless, not even in the much beloved 3025 era.



Ammo types and critical hit systems didn't do diddly for the SRM2 in Tabletop. All SRM launchers can use the ammo types, and for 2 tons (SRM2 + ammo) you could just use 2 Medium Lasers (2 tons) for the same critical hit chances with more damage but no ammo to explode and kill you.

No, I'm not mounting them right now, because of the reasons aforementioned. But you know what? I would like a reason to mount them. I know that Tabletop taught you that it's okay for 3-5 weapons to dominate the crap out of everything else, but that doesn't turn out very fun in a video game.

But...then people mount SRM2s in favor of 4s...like they do with LRM5s...

No matter what you do, 4-5 weapons will dominate the game. No matter what. You. Do.

SRM2s had a niche role, they were for mechs that were incredibly light, or were an afterthought. Later on some designs had them because the rules had changed over the years, so that there were more things you can do with them.

But yes, even without TACs SRM2s are about CRITS.

The idea of something like a PPC+2xSRM2 Panther (or SRM4, but 2x2s is better) is that you fire the PPC first, it destroys the armor some where on a light mech, and then the SRMs are going to hit next for crit rolls. Their damage isnt really important thats not why you mount them. You mount them because theyre light cheap ways to get crits. Youve 4 (potentially 12 crits) chances coming out of 2xSRM2s, where youve got 2, potentially 6, out of 2xmed lasers. (and for less heat, important back in the days of SHS only)

Chances are the med lasers wont destroy the location.

Thats the perk to them.

Thats not the case in MWO.

But if you buff them, they just replace SRM4s.

Buffing streaks, which is really a glamor weapon and comes AFTER infernos and alternate ammo types were added to the game....is pointless. That weapon system really shouldnt be in the game because its specifically designed to fight vehicles and infantry...things that take more damage from SRMs in the open, or the crit magnet vehicles like Savanahh masters that are always posting insanely high To-Hit numbers. You dont want to be throwing away all yer ammo missing. Streaks are a way to cut down on total ammo so you have less ammo to be assploded.

Edited by KraftySOT, 12 October 2014 - 08:39 AM.

[Thorqemada]

SRM2 be bad - simply as that - to much spread - SRM4 be king or ASRM6.

Aside of that keep in mind that this game only will grow if the Underhive finds some fun and like many of you Pros many of the Underhive equal fun with success and many of the Underhive do still have Steamengine Tech in their Computers so an Underhive comaptible weapon is good to have for the health of the game!

Edited by Thorqemada, 12 October 2014 - 08:41 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Thorqemada, on 12 October 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

SRM2 be bad - simply as that - to much spread - SRM4 be king or ASRM6.

Aside of that keep in mind that this game only will grow if the underhive finds some fun and like many of you Pros many of the underhive euqal fun with success and many of the underhive do still have steamengine tech in their Computers so an underhive comaptible weapon is good to have for the health of the game!

still haven't seen any actual "pros" weigh in. But then, IDK any pro who would deign to use SSRMs or SRM2s, etc anyhow. They aren't "meta" afterall.

[KraftySOT]

No one ever should CHOOSE to mount an SRM2.

Its something you mount because you have to, or have left over space. Ideally, you want an SRM6, if not a 6, then a 4, if not a 4, an entirely different weapon system.

This thread blows my ever loving mind.

[EgoSlayer]

Dracol, on 12 October 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

Randomized hit locations. Inevitably, when dealing with luck instead of skill weapons, Murphy rears his ugly head and they will hit every location but the one you wish they'd actually hit.

Except they are not completely random. There are weightings to avoid certain hit locations, certainly Head and CT. The net effect is that it's forced to hit arms and legs proportionally too high. This weighted enforcement has ruined the weapon.

I was trying to run 4 of them on a Griffin and even that many are pretty much useless. I tried it out on the testing grounds after playing a few matches and thinking WTF and you can watch this forced seeking behavior. LRM's have a better hit spread than SSRMs now.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 12 October 2014 - 08:46 AM.