176 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

IceSerpent, on 16 October 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

This makes absolutely no sense - you can "eliminate bad snapshots" by simply not pressing the trigger when you don't have a good shot. Works for every single weapon in game, no weird mechanics needed.

It's only weird until you get used to it. Then it's awesome.

Have you never used a charge weapon in any other games? Mechanics like MWO's gauss charge, with a short charge period followed by a window to fire in, usually make for some of the most accurate weapons in the game in the hands of people who aren't expert super-ace PC crackshots. For one, it eliminates all those shots you and me and everybody else wastes on a shaky target, that you know you shouldn't take but you always do anyways because one time in five you actually land that awesome shot and really rattle the other guy's cage...except now you're five shots and four misses down.

It also allows a window of time for correcting bad aim, and releasing the trigger for a shot is always more accurate than depressing the trigger in the first place. I'm telling ya, Ice. I've gotten much more accurate with the Gauss since the charge delay was added, and frankly the weapon is more interesting to use. It actually has character now, instead of just being a weird bad autocannon.

[Almond Brown]

Mercules, on 16 October 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

PGI has stated multiple times that macros are allowed in their game. You calling it a cheat does not make it a cheat.

http://mwomercs.com/...wo-game-client/

As has been discussed here many many times. When a Macro can circumvent the weapons Cool Down timer, then it is a cheat. Pretty sure that is not even possible so it is all good.

[Johnny Z]

Mystere, on 16 October 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

PGI has already explicitly stated time and time again that macros are fine. There is no need to bring up this issue again, unless of course the intent is specifically to whine and cry and threaten rage quitting to attract PGI's attention ... again.

You want to know about whining and crying is when a team running all the cheat programs gets beat by a team of legits, then gets banned on top of that. Good/experienced legit players tend to really make the cheat programs work hard and show themselves.

By the way all the cheat programs have ways they can be beat by legit players. Although not easy and sometimes impossible depending. Had to be said.

Edited by Johnny Z, 16 October 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Mystere, on 16 October 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

Then that only means that the team was actively looking at their text chat.

Otherwise, you will have to show me how one can possibly control and coordinate 7 separate mechs, short of using an advanced AI system built purposefully to play MWO and which managed to sync drop 7 instances ( ).

And do so in a PGI controlled "Instance" while on their Servers....

[Ph30nix]

macros are not cheating they are crutch at most, there is nothing you can do with a macro that you cant do on your own the only difference is there is no margin for error with a macro going off properly.

You can still miss and all that but you wont screw up your rotation with a macro (unless you hit the wrong one)

[Almond Brown]

Ghost Badger, on 16 October 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

You can...you just gotta have a direct line of sight and only move when THEY move...like matching footsteps down a hallway

It's a pain. lol

OK, but one false step and those 7 Mechs all turn together and nuke your butt hard. Not quite sure where those non-human "Aim Bots" come into it though?

[Felio]

Ghost Badger, on 16 October 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

You can...you just gotta have a direct line of sight and only move when THEY move...like matching footsteps down a hallway
It's a pain. lol

And while you are doing that, someone with dual gauss vaporizes a chunk of you.

[Xarian]

You're all kinda missing the point, which I suppose is because I was tired and didn't really write down the actual point:

The Gauss macro in the video is used to circumvent the charge-up time on the 3rd and 4th shot. Basically, he's firing 4 shots faster than he could do it using a 2+1 method. This was inspired by a guy that I was spectating last night who had 3x Gauss set up and was firing them essentially at the same time using this chain fire macro.

It's a game bug.

Also note that it's possible to make the chain fire faster than shown in the video. The guy I mentioned was shooting his Gauss in bursts of 3 that were essentially exactly the same as a Clan UAC/5.

Edited by Xarian, 16 October 2014 - 09:38 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Ph30nix, on 16 October 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

macros are not cheating they are crutch at most, there is nothing you can do with a macro that you cant do on your own the only difference is there is no margin for error with a macro going off properly.

You can still miss and all that but you wont screw up your rotation with a macro (unless you hit the wrong one)

Let me guess this a copy paste response for the use of any of the 3rd party "assist" programs.

I am not kidding is this copied and pasted from another game forum? And yes I do find it very funny.

Edited by Johnny Z, 16 October 2014 - 09:59 AM.

[SI The Joker]

Mystere, on 16 October 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

Well then, I wholeheartedly and totally disagree.

I do not see boating as a problem (But that's just me). Besides, if PGI prevents boating a specific weapon, players will just (and indeed have) boat something else. And if PGI stops that too (again, and again, and again) ... well we will eventually end up with a global cooldown system in which only one weapon can be fired at a time. It's either that or we'll just have pillow fights ... until someone cries about how OP that one is too.

What?! Disagree?! Psshhtaw!

I guess another point of contention is that every other weapon in the game has an adverse affect to using them en masse... whereas Gauss does not. If I slap 6 MLAS on my Nopeva and fire them in 2 groups... I have a heat penalty.

Just like... if I want to charge and fire 2 gauss... well... you don't agree with the rest but you know what I'm talking about.

[Mystere]

SI The Joker, on 16 October 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

What?! Disagree?! Psshhtaw!

I guess another point of contention is that every other weapon in the game has an adverse affect to using them en masse... whereas Gauss does not. If I slap 6 MLAS on my Nopeva and fire them in 2 groups... I have a heat penalty.

Just like... if I want to charge and fire 2 gauss... well... you don't agree with the rest but you know what I'm talking about.

I was thinking more about recent complaints about Dakka Wolves boating 5 CUAC5s. People are loudly demanding (i.e. whining and crying like little brats whose ice cream is not exactly the flavor they asked for) for nerfs ... again .... because something killed them ... again ... just like the people crying about macros.

Edited by Mystere, 16 October 2014 - 10:12 AM.

[Ph30nix]

Johnny Z, on 16 October 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Let me guess this a copy paste response for the use of any of the 3rd party "assist" programs.

I am not kidding is this copied and pasted from another game forum? And yes I do find it very funny.

no i typed this out all by myself while eating a lunchable at my desk (pizza one if you wanna know for some reason im addicted to the pizza sauce for them yes i am ashamed)

I dont use macros, im too lazy to try and set them up but for the most part i dont care, now i will say if i see some amazing godly player who most people see as the best player in the world then find out they use macros i would no longer see them as best player and would say they needed a * by their name until they could perform exactly the same without them.

Xarian, on 16 October 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

You're all kinda missing the point, which I suppose is because I was tired and didn't really write down the actual point:

The Gauss macro in the video is used to circumvent the charge-up time on the 3rd and 4th shot. Basically, he's firing 4 shots faster than he could do it using a 2+1 method. This was inspired by a guy that I was spectating last night who had 3x Gauss set up and was firing them essentially at the same time using this chain fire macro.

It's a game bug.

Also note that it's possible to make the chain fire faster than shown in the video. The guy I mentioned was shooting his Gauss in bursts of 3 that were essentially exactly the same as a Clan UAC/5.

does the macro allow you to do something that a person with their fingers on the firing groups couldnt do exactly the same?

and the charge limitation is just so you cant fire more than 2 gauss at the same time, charge time is only like .5 seconds right? so you would still not be able to fire more then 2 shots every .5 seconds, so 4 shots would take at least 1 second to fire. You would have to be able to break the charge on the gauss itself to go any faster.

Mystere, on 16 October 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

I was thinking more about recent complaints about Dakka Wolves boating 5 CUAC5s. People are loudly demanding (i.e. whining and crying like little brats whose ice cream is not exactly the flavor they asked for) for nerfs ... again .... because something killed them ... again ... just like the people crying about macros.

only 5? if your gonna dakka its gotta be 6, which really isnt that great its a goof

[AlmightyAeng]

Almond Brown, on 16 October 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

OK, but one false step and those 7 Mechs all turn together and nuke your butt hard. Not quite sure where those non-human "Aim Bots" come into it though?

Felio, on 16 October 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

And while you are doing that, someone with dual gauss vaporizes a chunk of you.

Lol! I'm not saying it would be easy, smart or even viable as a tactic in game.

But technically, you could

[IceSerpent]

1453 R, on 16 October 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

Have you never used a charge weapon in any other games?

Come to think of it, I don't recall any game that has "charge period followed by a window to fire in", it's usually "charge period, then fire whenever".

Quote

Mechanics like MWO's gauss charge, with a short charge period followed by a window to fire in, usually make for some of the most accurate weapons in the game in the hands of people who aren't expert super-ace PC crackshots. For one, it eliminates all those shots you and me and everybody else wastes on a shaky target, that you know you shouldn't take but you always do anyways because one time in five you actually land that awesome shot and really rattle the other guy's cage...except now you're five shots and four misses down.

No, it doesn't. If you tend to fire on shaky target, you will keep doing that regardless of triggering mechanism - you'll simply release the button when you shouldn't have.

Quote

It also allows a window of time for correcting bad aim, and releasing the trigger for a shot is always more accurate than depressing the trigger in the first place. I'm telling ya, Ice. I've gotten much more accurate with the Gauss since the charge delay was added, and frankly the weapon is more interesting to use. It actually has character now, instead of just being a weird bad autocannon.

It's generally the other way around (with humans at least) - we get better precision and reaction time when moving arms/fingers inwards than outwards. Although, there are probably exceptions to that. Besides, I am fairly certain that every single RL weapon system in existence is operated by pressing the trigger or button instead of releasing one.

[Livewyr]

This thread actually got 4 pages? Wtf.


Yes, the guy used a macro to to fire 4 gauss rifles in a short period of time.
Did you know that if I wanted to pack on 4 UAC20s onto a DWF with 2.5 tons of ammo, I could do the same thing and avoid ghost heat?
(And just about everything else with Ghost heat.)

The system was not designed to prevent a number of weapons from being fired.. just prevent them from being fired at precisely the same time. This has achieved that. He did not fire all 4 Gauss rifles at the exact same time.

How did this thread make it so far?

[Blue Boutique]

Xarian, on 16 October 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

You're all kinda missing the point, which I suppose is because I was tired and didn't really write down the actual point:

The Gauss macro in the video is used to circumvent the charge-up time on the 3rd and 4th shot. Basically, he's firing 4 shots faster than he could do it using a 2+1 method. This was inspired by a guy that I was spectating last night who had 3x Gauss set up and was firing them essentially at the same time using this chain fire macro.

It's a game bug.

Also note that it's possible to make the chain fire faster than shown in the video. The guy I mentioned was shooting his Gauss in bursts of 3 that were essentially exactly the same as a Clan UAC/5.

The chain fire is actually worse than the group fire. Full 0.5 seconds charge followed by 0.25 seconds between three following shots is 1.25 seconds compared to the group 0.5 seconds charge and another at 0.5 seconds equal to 1 second.

[Lightfoot]

Jason Parker, on 16 October 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

What they could do is remove the ridiculous mechanic that is worked around by the macro. And as far as desync goes: It isn't hard at all to create a macro that fires gauss and PPC at the same time so the macro works around that as well.

QFT

So true.

The fix that would work 90 percent of the time is to make a single mounted Gauss Rifle hold the charge for 4 seconds or more. Then only the rare die-hard would take more than one Gauss Rifle. Unless the idea is to just remove the Gauss Rifle entirely from MWO which is the case right now. I only see 2xGauss when spectating, never just one.

[Mercules]

Johnny Z, on 16 October 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

You want to know about whining and crying is when a team running all the cheat programs gets beat by a team of legits, then gets banned on top of that. Good/experienced legit players tend to really make the cheat programs work hard and show themselves.

By the way all the cheat programs have ways they can be beat by legit players. Although not easy and sometimes impossible depending. Had to be said.

Little off topic here since Macros are not a cheat according to the makers and operators of the game.

Quote

Q: My mouse/keyboard came with macro software that lets me emulate a series of clicks or helps me with some process. Is this allowed?

A: Yes, using macros as provided by 3rd party hardware vendors is allowed. Though the use of any modifications to assist with aiming, aimbots, wall hacks, or any attempt to give information or tactical assistance that other players would not have by default, is a serious violation of our Terms of Use and any account found to be using such software will likely be suspended or banned.

[Archon]

Ultimatum X, on 16 October 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

First Guess: 2.5s charge up time.

Haha, and whiners will still demand a maximum range of 200 with a minimum range of 199, cockpit shake when charging that throws off your aim, and when even one of the weapons get destroyed your entire team self-destructs.

[Rebas Kradd]

I've got four - count 'em, FOUR - defenses against this macro.

1. Don't stand still.

2. Don't pilot a slow heavy/assault 99% of the time.

3. Don't be the lone mech in full view of the entire enemy team.

4. When you see a 4x gauss Dire Wolf, identify him to your team in chat. I do this every time. Rebas Kradd: DIRE WOLF PILOTS HATE HIM!!! CLICK HERE TO SEE WHY!!!

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 16 October 2014 - 12:49 PM.