963 replies to this topic

[MeiSooHaityu]

WM Quicksilver, on 21 October 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

If that's what the Hunchback needs to carry its AC20 I can't imagine what my Cicada needs to carry BOTH its AC20s.

Baba Yaga's magic. It is her hut afterall.

[KraftySOT]

You guys are simply bad mechlabbers.

HBK-4G

With the revised quirks. This is awesome.

Edited by KraftySOT, 21 October 2014 - 07:44 AM.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

KraftySOT, on 21 October 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

You guys are simply bad mechlabbers.

HBK-4G


With the revised quirks. This is awesome.

You made a -4G without an AC20, you heathen.

[Mercules]

1453 R, on 21 October 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

BISHOP! PPCs or ERLL in the 4G's arms for a weird off-quirk HBK-4G! Which would you go with and why?

Here is why I stated ERPPCs instead of ERLL. Less time facing the enemy which means I can fire then turn my armored hunch to them forcing them to shoot at that side of my mech. Fire, twist, wait for recharge, twist back, fire, twist. ERLL ends up with me staring at another mech too long.

2 of them end up with the same punch as an AC/20 with a a better speed projectile than the AC/20 and more effective range. Now, I might not start sniping at them from far off but wander around with an ECM mech and then when things get thick start blasting them. Otherwise I will do the extreme sniping I do from the starting point while moving out(where I tend to hit at least 1 in 3 shots) and then cool it until much closer like I do on my PPC lights.

Johnny approach.

Your approach seems to have more in common with Spike.

[KraftySOT]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 21 October 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

You made a -4G without an AC20, you heathen.

Your damn right. The whole point of this insanely long thread is that it "kills" customization.

It sure doesnt. 6.5 DPS after quirks, and when mastered, 42% heat eff? At 88kph?

Why on earth would that be bad.

Mercules, on 21 October 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

Here is why I stated ERPPCs instead of ERLL. Less time facing the enemy which means I can fire then turn my armored hunch to them forcing them to shoot at that side of my mech. Fire, twist, wait for recharge, twist back, fire, twist. ERLL ends up with me staring at another mech too long.

2 of them end up with the same punch as an AC/20 with a a better speed projectile than the AC/20 and more effective range. Now, I might not start sniping at them from far off but wander around with an ECM mech and then when things get thick start blasting them. Otherwise I will do the extreme sniping I do from the starting point while moving out(where I tend to hit at least 1 in 3 shots) and then cool it until much closer like I do on my PPC lights.

Johnny approach.

Your approach seems to have more in common with Spike.

PPCs projectile speed tho...

If you dont want to stare. Pulse lasers.

AC/20s also require you stare, or are very, very close. Youre better off with pulse lasers and good speed. And MGs for when you can stare at somethings back or side for a moment.

Edited by KraftySOT, 21 October 2014 - 07:56 AM.

[Mercules]

KraftySOT, on 21 October 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

PPCs projectile speed tho...

If you dont want to stare. Pulse lasers.

Is still faster than AC/20 speed. Also 1 second to aim and pull the trigger is still shorter than 1 second to aim and pull the trigger plus .6 seconds waiting for the beam to discharge. You act like I need to actually SEE if my shot hit or not.

[KraftySOT]

Mercules, on 21 October 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

Is still faster than AC/20 speed. Also 1 second to aim and pull the trigger is still shorter than 1 second to aim and pull the trigger plus .6 seconds waiting for the beam to discharge. You act like I need to actually SEE if my shot hit or not.

You do if you want more hits, seeing how your last shot missed, helps the next shot succeed. Were also talking about half a second. Unless theyre also pulsing you, youre out damaging them where t matters. Theyre hitting you with lasers for .6 seconds where they want, then youre turning. Even ACs youre going to spread the damage.

Thats also why you dont mount an AC20 either. Pulsing and MGs you can put out more DPS than your enemy, in shorter bursts, and if you do get that chance to get behind someone or not be the main target of somone, your dps really shines. They expect the AC/20 and theyre ready to twist to keep that 20 points of damage every 4 seconds from falling in the same location. Even if its unexpected, if you missed that AC20 to the left rear torso and not the center, you drastically reduced your DPS to the location you want.

With pulse and MG, you can walk our fire and youre not "wasting" nearly as much damage in locations youre not trying to hit.

For what its worth.

Your PPC OR LL build, is both below 5 dps and has horrible heat management.

Edited by KraftySOT, 21 October 2014 - 08:03 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mercules, on 21 October 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

Is still faster than AC/20 speed. Also 1 second to aim and pull the trigger is still shorter than 1 second to aim and pull the trigger plus .6 seconds waiting for the beam to discharge. You act like I need to actually SEE if my shot hit or not.

crosshairs go red with a hit whether I stare or not. Ragdoll tells me where. Handy thing, that.

[KraftySOT]

And 2 large pulse is 21.2 damage, and recycles faster than the AC20, for roughly the same heat. You do 21.2 in .6 seconds and then turn.

So the two ERLL are just doing 18 in 1 second, but since you turned after firing, theyre really only doing 9 or 10.

Clear advantage to the pulse lasers.

[Bishop Steiner]

KraftySOT, on 21 October 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

You do if you want more hits, seeing how your last shot missed, helps the next shot succeed. Were also talking about half a second. Unless theyre also pulsing you, youre out damaging them where t matters. Theyre hitting you with lasers for .6 seconds where they want, then youre turning. Even ACs youre going to spread the damage.

Thats also why you dont mount an AC20 either. Pulsing and MGs you can put out more DPS than your enemy, in shorter bursts, and if you do get that chance to get behind someone or not be the main target of somone, your dps really shines. They expect the AC/20 and theyre ready to twist to keep that 20 points of damage every 4 seconds from falling in the same location. Even if its unexpected, if you missed that AC20 to the left rear torso and not the center, you drastically reduced your DPS to the location you want.

With pulse and MG, you can walk our fire and youre not "wasting" nearly as much damage in locations youre not trying to hit.

For what its worth.

Your PPC OR LL build, is both below 5 dps and has horrible heat management.

for those MG to be worth mounting, you gotta stare anyways.

KraftySOT, on 21 October 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

And 2 large pulse is 21.2 damage, and recycles faster than the AC20, for roughly the same heat. You do 21.2 in .6 seconds and then turn.

So the two ERLL are just doing 18 in 1 second, but since you turned after firing, theyre really only doing 9 or 10.

Clear advantage to the pulse lasers.

unless you are more than say...400 meters away. Then...LPL kinda suck

[KraftySOT]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 October 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

for those MG to be worth mounting, you gotta stare anyways.


unless you are more than say...400 meters away. Then...LPL kinda suck

Yeah the MGs are just for that, you round the corner behind the Direwolf and he's busy shooting your teammates. Depending on their armor value in the CTR, you can kill them in about 6-8 seconds. About the time it takes them to actually rotate around and see what youre doing.

And with speed and the map design, close to 400m is never a problem. Closing to 270 can be an issue tho. And nothing sucks more than firing an AC/20 at something at having it do 3 damage. With 7 shots a ton...its not cool to lose 75% of your damage at 310m.

And ammo blows up...AC20 ammo is heavy if you want to last the whole battle...14 shots simply doesnt cut it, so when youre adding 3 tons to an AC20...it starts to lose its effectiveness in the hit and run game.

The AC/20 is fore staring. In an Atlas, or Banshee. Something that can take the punishment of almost all the meta builds so long as you can kill your target faster than it kills you.

The AC20 is also for that final blow...the Dire or Fatlass has been fighting all game, you round the corner and hey! YOU GET 60 DAMAGE...and YOU GET 60 DAMAGE....EVERYBODY GETS 60 DAMAGE!!

Then you lulz when everyone on your team calls you a kill stealer.

Edited by KraftySOT, 21 October 2014 - 08:13 AM.

[1453 R]

KraftySOT, on 21 October 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

You do if you want more hits, seeing how your last shot missed, helps the next shot succeed. Were also talking about half a second. Unless theyre also pulsing you, youre out damaging them where t matters. Theyre hitting you with lasers for .6 seconds where they want, then youre turning. Even ACs youre going to spread the damage.

Thats also why you dont mount an AC20 either. Pulsing and MGs you can put out more DPS than your enemy, in shorter bursts, and if you do get that chance to get behind someone or not be the main target of somone, your dps really shines. They expect the AC/20 and theyre ready to twist to keep that 20 points of damage every 4 seconds from falling in the same location. Even if its unexpected, if you missed that AC20 to the left rear torso and not the center, you drastically reduced your DPS to the location you want.

With pulse and MG, you can walk our fire and youre not "wasting" nearly as much damage in locations youre not trying to hit.

For what its worth.

Your PPC OR LL build, is both below 5 dps and has horrible heat management.

Well, being fair, Mercules wanted an energy-centric sniper built on a 4G. I put together the best energy-centric sniper I could on a 4G. Besides, both face time and DPS arguments are less valid than usual for a sniper. You shouldn't be sniping things that're looking at you anyways. And yes, the jig is up when someone hits R. Heh, part of Merc's argument was that energy Punchback-4Gs preserve their armament longer after an enemy wastes time shooting off the empty or mostly-empty hunch, which assumes that 1.) they're focused on attacking and destroying you, so your sniper game's already bust anyways, and 2.) that they're going to treat you like an ordinary Punchback even if you never hit them with an autocannon round. Anyone who hits R and spends half a second glancing at your fit is going to know where your guns are and target the arms, if they don't do the usual thing and just drill you dead-center.

Also the ERLL version has better heat management than the LPL version, as the ERLL generates the same heat as the LPL over a longer cycle time. So no, my version does not have any more horrible heat management than yours does

[Bishop Steiner]

KraftySOT, on 21 October 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

Yeah the MGs are just for that, you round the corner behind the Direwolf and he's busy shooting your teammates. Depending on their armor value in the CTR, you can kill them in about 6-8 seconds. About the time it takes them to actually rotate around and see what youre doing.

And with speed and the map design, close to 400m is never a problem. Closing to 270 can be an issue tho. And nothing sucks more than firing an AC/20 at something at having it do 3 damage. With 7 shots a ton...its not cool to lose 75% of your damage at 310m.

And ammo blows up...AC20 ammo is heavy if you want to last the whole battle...14 shots simply doesnt cut it, so when youre adding 3 tons to an AC20...it starts to lose its effectiveness in the hit and run game.

The AC/20 is fore staring. In an Atlas, or Banshee. Something that can take the punishment of almost all the meta builds so long as you can kill your target faster than it kills you.

The AC20 is also for that final blow...the Dire or Fatlass has been fighting all game, you round the corner and hey! YOU GET 60 DAMAGE...and YOU GET 60 DAMAGE....EVERYBODY GETS 60 DAMAGE!!

Then you lulz when everyone on your team calls you a kill stealer.

last I checked smurfy, the ac20 was still doing 10 damage at 425 meters. And not dropping to 3 till some point past 500.

[Bront]

Wave 2 opens customization back up a lot. I don't think it's a bad thing than some variants support some loadouts better than others though. And you still get to use customization techniques like Endo, DHS, Engine upgrades, and armor changes, which can go a long way towards distinguishing a mech.

[KraftySOT]

To me in MWO the AC20 isnt the thing like in TT thats making holes then youre critting your target to death...its the "final solution" for every mech in the game when its got a red CT.

Ill take my Banshee out of a fight, cross an entire level, just to one shot some Direwolf with a red CT, knowing he's got less than 50 total damage to go before dead. All I have to do is get under 300m and its a one shot kill. Same goes for every other mech. If I see youre damaged in the CT already, I know ive got a single shot solution on you. Its just a matter of getting into the position to deliver it.


For a medium mech, thats not something you can always orchestrate. Sometimes you have to take hits to get to your position and the medium just cant take them.

So you gotta brawl...you gotta dart from behind cover, hit and get back, as fast as possible.

Id also do 2x Large Pulse, and 2xAC5 with alot less armor and a smaller engine (maybe even an XL since I wouldnt plan on getting hit unless my team loses) and snipe that way.

Ive got a 2xERLL raven sniper...and man youre just not going to do that in a Hunchback. Its so suboptimal its embarrassing. Past 700m that ERLL is pointless.. No one even cares when youre hitting them unless theyre pyschologically effected by the own weapons short range. If someone has a gauss, they have no problem standing there taking your 5 damage all over while they wait for that perfect 15 damage to your CT shot that makes it a bad idea to keep sniping.

[Dracol]

I was wondering if this thread was going to hit 50 pages. Looking a little dubious at the moment....

[KraftySOT]

1453 R, on 21 October 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

Well, being fair, Mercules wanted an energy-centric sniper built on a 4G. I put together the best energy-centric sniper I could on a 4G. Besides, both face time and DPS arguments are less valid than usual for a sniper. You shouldn't be sniping things that're looking at you anyways. And yes, the jig is up when someone hits R. Heh, part of Merc's argument was that energy Punchback-4Gs preserve their armament longer after an enemy wastes time shooting off the empty or mostly-empty hunch, which assumes that 1.) they're focused on attacking and destroying you, so your sniper game's already bust anyways, and 2.) that they're going to treat you like an ordinary Punchback even if you never hit them with an autocannon round. Anyone who hits R and spends half a second glancing at your fit is going to know where your guns are and target the arms, if they don't do the usual thing and just drill you dead-center.

Also the ERLL version has better heat management than the LPL version, as the ERLL generates the same heat as the LPL over a longer cycle time. So no, my version does not have any more horrible heat management than yours does

Yours had the AC20 as well right? or was it just two LL and a ton of heat sinks? Sorry I may have been under the impression you got the AC/20 going as well.

With just two ERLL and heatsinks, you have great heat management. But crap damage.

Edited by KraftySOT, 21 October 2014 - 08:21 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

KraftySOT, on 21 October 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

To me in MWO the AC20 isnt the thing like in TT thats making holes then youre critting your target to death...its the "final solution" for every mech in the game when its got a red CT.

Ill take my Banshee out of a fight, cross an entire level, just to one shot some Direwolf with a red CT, knowing he's got less than 50 total damage to go before dead. All I have to do is get under 300m and its a one shot kill. Same goes for every other mech. If I see youre damaged in the CT already, I know ive got a single shot solution on you. Its just a matter of getting into the position to deliver it.


For a medium mech, thats not something you can always orchestrate. Sometimes you have to take hits to get to your position and the medium just cant take them.

So you gotta brawl...you gotta dart from behind cover, hit and get back, as fast as possible.

Id also do 2x Large Pulse, and 2xAC5 with alot less armor and a smaller engine (maybe even an XL since I wouldnt plan on getting hit unless my team loses) and snipe that way.

Ive got a 2xERLL raven sniper...and man youre just not going to do that in a Hunchback. Its so suboptimal its embarrassing. Past 700m that ERLL is pointless.. No one even cares when youre hitting them unless theyre pyschologically effected by the own weapons short range. If someone has a gauss, they have no problem standing there taking your 5 damage all over while they wait for that perfect 15 damage to your CT shot that makes it a bad idea to keep sniping.

ac20 is perfect for hit and run. Aim, shoot, twist, run. Rinse, wash and repeat.

I am a Medium Mech Jock, and ambush specialist. My primary playstyle is Hit and Run Flankers and Skirmishers. There's a reason there is a devoted Cult of the YLW. Because any time you marry decent mobility to 20 pts PP-FLD, you have a winner.

[KraftySOT]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 October 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

last I checked smurfy, the ac20 was still doing 10 damage at 425 meters. And not dropping to 3 till some point past 500.

Correct im just exaggerating there. Its frustrating to see it only do 10 damage...or 15...really anything under 20 is a bloody frustrating moment. When I cant get that guy to come closer I know im just wasting ammo. Ill back off rather than keep firing inefficient rounds.

It shakes them around regardless like an AC20 so they know ive got one, and now they know how far to sit from me cutting my damage in half.

[KraftySOT]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 October 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

ac20 is perfect for hit and run. Aim, shoot, twist, run. Rinse, wash and repeat.

I am a Medium Mech Jock, and ambush specialist. My primary playstyle is Hit and Run Flankers and Skirmishers. There's a reason there is a devoted Cult of the YLW. Because any time you marry decent mobility to 20 pts PP-FLD, you have a winner.

I cant make my Raven ac20 work as hard as I try. The hunchy was the first mech I bought in MWO, and I couldnt get that to work to my satisfaction either. I ran 2 ERLL and AC20 forever, until switching to medium pulse. Finally sold it off and got a Banshee 3E, which does what I wanted the Hunchback to do the entire time.

Now that im branching back into mediums and lights, ive noticed that if I want to nuke mechs, I have to either be unnoticed, or come to a complete stop to hit exactly what I want with all my weapons, and then zoom off. (boom and zoom? Is that a thing here? I know its an air combat move) So I want the highest damage in the shortest amount of time, with the most accuracy.

And ive noticed if im spreading damage at a full run...I just straight up want heat management and DPS. FLD doesnt matter because most of it comes with a slow rate of fire and a projectile that doesnt hit where all my other weapons are hitting. I want to limit exposure time, thus I want DPS. FLD is nice, but not at the cost of putting my weapons where I want...and of course...ammo...im trying to maximize tonnage in these small dudes.