388 replies to this topic

[Docta Pain]

Why the heavy handed c-bill nerf?

[SyNooB]

Why the cbill nerf? and just as I started spending real money again?

[Navid A1]

Cbill earnings took a big hit...a BIG hit.!... BIIIGGG.

Atlas-S is brutal... been running mine with 1AC20+2xSRM6+2xSRM4+2xERLL+2xML

[Herr Dingus]

I must say I am highly disappointed, the new mechs are fun and all but why the sudden and BIG nerfs. I mean come on invalidating whole builds is not okay, more than that it means that we now have to go back and spend lots of cbills to rebuild the mechs around what is in essence a forced change. I totally get making weapons harder to use by adding heat, that doesnt totally invalidate their use it just means that players who much prefer that build have to learn to play with a bit more skill. Forcibly adding up to 5 tons to various mech builds is to far, it doesnt make them more balanced what it does is simply make them much much harder to use for players like me who dont enjoy jumpjets and would rather play with them minimized in exchange for weapons and ammo. The clans already lack much ability to make custom builds due to the heavy handed restrictions, this just adds to the problem. Its result is to make a player like me who doesnt enjoy timber pops question his investment in your company, after all until i figure out what I want to do with them ive now got a number of expensive mechs which can gather dust in my account because pgi decided to change the entire way they were built. Which is not something which encourages real faith with clan phase 2 and IS resistance on the horizon. My opinion is that players whos mechs became invalidated because of this change should be compensated via premium time, or some other method. I think this because its one thing to make a weapon harder to use in order to make it more balanced, however totally invalidating mechs is a whole different story, especially since we now have to divert our cbills to totally redo the mechs which you decided need to be totally different. This isnt a matter of poor baby your LRM causes more heat, give more time between shots, its a matter of one needing to buy whole new weapon sets to compensate for the fact that certain sets are no longer able to be equipped at all. Oh and should i bother to mention that the cbills are also harder to get now, because they have also been nerfed. Even better, now i get to spend cbills, and even more precious commodity to repair mechs that pgi broke. Really why more cbill nerfs, keep going and we will end up with a game where cbills are next to useless and only MC is a viable way to get anything done. Way to show us your true colors and intentions with that one.

[Threat Doc]

Darth Futuza, on 21 October 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

So you want lights to line up in a neat orderly line, Red Coat style, and let Direwolves mow them down? Perhaps you've been harassed by my Jenners and had your rear torso armor stripped too much?

Of course not. Leave it to YOU to read it like that, too. No, I don't mind if they try to distract or draw off a heavy or assault, but to dig in like the proverbial "Alabama tick" and sit there dismantling the rear of a larger 'Mech is not right. I need to be able to do what Hulk did to Thor in the Avengers, and knock their asses down. As it is right now, though, in no 'Mech 55 tons or larger, regardless of the size of engine I have, am I able to turn fast enough, or reverse my turn and lock down fast enough, to hit a Light 'Mech. Backing up against a wall is the only defense, and that's not a great one. Oh, and keep your BS comments about not being a good pilot to yourself, because though I'm not a great pilot, like various min-maxer's out there, I'm not a bad pilot, either.

Edited by Kay Wolf, 21 October 2014 - 09:41 PM.

[Threat Doc]

Shar Wolf, on 21 October 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

Then you run 12 mans - and then there is no one for you to have to carry!

AMAZING RIGHT?

But no!

Complaining about it SOLVES EVERYTHING!

Hmmm, pretty funny how yours is the only argument you can hear, Shar. I've read your entire exchange, and you are not giving any credence to the other side. Isn't that why you unfriended me? Because I wouldn't listen to other viewpoints? Hypocrite.

[Dirt Devil1]

OK, PGI

You need to reimburse me the 1,122, 706 c-bills I spent on Timber Wolf S omnipods for my other two Timber Wolves, since I can no longer use them a I intended. I will have to buy other pods to replace them. I would not have used them if the jump jets were not removable.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Kay Wolf, on 21 October 2014 - 09:47 PM, said:

I still have my head shoved so far up my own arse that I take everthing personal

See how AMAZINGLY AWESOME IT IS?!

Funny

Wasn't aware that suggesting stepping out of the PUG que was considered something mockable.

Good to know you haven't changed Kay

Edited by Shar Wolf, 21 October 2014 - 09:50 PM.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

ohhhhh my poor Twolf -S...

[o0Marduk0o]

Lightfoot, on 21 October 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

So I spent 3 months fiddling together a good Mad Cat. It's weak by Clan tech standards, but okay for MWO and today I open the game and I see you have made it unplayable, a config violation. I actually just got it finished Monday and now anything with the S side torsos is garbage. I don't want the weak jump-jets that MWO has settled on, they are just dead-weight unless you pop-tart in 3PV, something you promised would not happen when adding 3PV. Really annoyed at losing the Timber Wolf S because you made it jump-jets only.

Where do you see the link between 3PV and jump sniping? You are free to drop the best omni-pod of all clan mechs (TBR S side torso) for anything else but complaining about it is silly. When you made a weak MadCat with the S torso, then you probably boat narc tubes...

Thango, on 21 October 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Can you please tell me what is the point of listing equipment and ammo for the TBR-S's CT when you can't place $h1t in there????

The TBR as a LRM boat? You are doing it wrong. If you want to run 2x LRM15, you can still do it with enough Ammo.


------------------------------------------------------------

Concerning a c-bill nerf. People finally get the c-bills according to what they do in a match. You no longer get high rewards for just tagging everyone with an er large laser, which is basically without any effort.
Losing without doing good gives very little rewards. But do you guys want rewards for just joining the match?! Play good and you get more than before.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 21 October 2014 - 10:17 PM.

[Earthtalker]

Just got back from a few drops. I must say, PGI: Not Bad.
After reading the patch notes, I expected my c-bill earning to go down a lot. And I did notice a slight decrease. Not like others are talking about, but some. Not as bad as I thought.
HOWEVER...
You violated the one unwritten golden rule of any successful f2p game: Always add, Never take.
You added bonus c-bill earnings to ceartin actions as an incentive to diversify gameplay and promote team effort. And it looks like that's what it's doing so far. Big thumbs up at the step in the right direction.
And then you break those big thumbs up by taking away some things we've had for a while and depended on to keep our earnings up. C-bills we were using to buy weapons, ammo, modules, consumables, endo, ferro, XL's, and whole mechs. Whole mechs that we need mech bays, paint, camo, and cockpit items for.
Do you see where I am going with this?
Any nerf, no matter how slight, to the earning potential of the in game currencies ability to purchase in game assests is a directly proportional reduction to the real world monetary earning potential of PGI.
In layman's terms, If players are not being rewarded appropriately for their time spent playing MWO, they feel less inclined to play it as much. The less they want to play MWO, the less likely they are to spend money on MWO, as it is not as enjoyable as other titles in their eyes.
Less money=Less profit.
Less profit=well, you know.
Thankfully, a simple tweak of the numbers is all that's needed.
Win=50,000c
Loss=25,000c
Tie=35,00c
Kill=4,000c
Assist=6,000c
Componet Destroyed=2,500c
Damage Done=50c
Team Kill=-30,000c
Capture Win=2,000c
Capture Assist=2,000c
Spotting Assist=2,000c
Salvage Bonus=1,000c
Kill Most Damage=5,000c
Solo Kill=8,000c
Scouting=2,500c
Flanking=1,000c
Capture=1,500c
Capture Pulse=25c
First Capture=4,000c
Brawling=5,500c
Tag Damage=30c
Tag Kill=5,000c
Narc Kill=5,000c
Hit & Run=2,500c
Tag Stealth=100c
Lance Formation=150c
Protected Medium=100c
Protected Light=100c
Protected Proximity=100c
Savior Kill=4,000c
Defensive Kill=4,000c
UAV Kill=100c
UAV Locked Damage=1,500c
UAV Detection=150c
Counter ECM=3,500c
Counter ECM Locked Damage=300c
Turret Kill=750c
Tag Narc=1,500c

Man that feels good to get off my chest.
As you can see, earning potential goees up nicely without being too overboard.
Most decent players should see about 250,000-300,000c for a solid win. More if they have premium and a hero.
The fact that I know going into a match that I stand a real good chance of making a quarter million c-bills for a good win in a standard mech with no premium makes me want to play A LOT for now I can afford all those mechs. And guess what I'll need to store those mechs in?

[Darth Futuza]

Kay Wolf, on 21 October 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

Of course not. Leave it to YOU to read it like that, too. No, I don't mind if they try to distract or draw off a heavy or assault, but to dig in like the proverbial "Alabama tick" and sit there dismantling the rear of a larger 'Mech is not right. I need to be able to do what Hulk did to Thor in the Avengers, and knock their asses down. As it is right now, though, in no 'Mech 55 tons or larger, regardless of the size of engine I have, am I able to turn fast enough, or reverse my turn and lock down fast enough, to hit a Light 'Mech. Backing up against a wall is the only defense, and that's not a great one. Oh, and keep your BS comments about not being a good pilot to yourself, because though I'm not a great pilot, like various min-maxer's out there, I'm not a bad pilot, either.

I wasn't meaning to imply that you were a sucky pilot or anything like that. Don't take it so personally. The way this game is designed lights > assaults That's just the way it is. To counter lights use lights, mediums, long range, or two mechs. A good light pilot usually leaves assaults and heavies that have company alone, or shoots them as they pass by. Lights are seriously underpowered and it would be completely unfair if they became not only medium's dinners, but also heavy and assault mechs. I really don't see any problem with the 'tick' strategy, it has plenty of risks and counters for it that it certainly isn't OP or 'cheap' setup. Its part of what makes this an interesting team game.

[Sereglach]

Haven't gotten to play, yet (won't until tomorrow . . . err . . . later today, sadly). However, I must say the changes look great overall. I, personally, am also thankful for the LRM5 change, for pure consistency purposes. I couldn't understand how SRM2s had a heat scale while LRM5s didn't. Even as Russ said: stuff may change in the future, but for now at least everything is consistent.

I think the numbers on the new rewards system may see some tweaking, at least at a glance. There also may be more rewards to come in the future. I'm quite curious over the near 50/50 split on this thread so far over earning more vs. earning less c-bills/xp (and I'm talking individual posters . . . was keeping tabs over the previous 14 pages). Regardless, for all of the comments on either side of the fence, they blatantly and clearly state in the patch notes that:

Quote

Please take a moment to review the list and table below, but keep in mind further tuning may still occur. (We will let you know if and when it does!)

So, don't be surprised if numbers tuning still occurs, or that more rewards show up. I personally won't be surprised if they bring many of the already standing rewards back up closer to where they were (but not all the way back up . . . I'm sorry . . . but there's plenty of rewards to be had to make up the differences), but leave the new ones where they are (if not add even more). This would ensure that old-play-style players (or those learning the game and having difficulty with the aspects of role-warfare) continue to make c-bills close to where they were, but puts in truly massive rewards for those that fulfill their roles for the team and focus more on the team-oriented-role-warfare aspect of the game.

Really though . . . when you look at it . . . if some of these people were really earning and doing what they say they were . . . a former kill assist (because we all know you were kill-stealed), would net 6500 c-bills, plus the damage you did. Damage hasn't really changed, but now you would have the assist (2500), and Kill Most Damage (5000) . . . so for the same effort as before you've now raked in 7500 (2500+5000) for an extra 1k c-bills . . . That's IF they're doing what they say they're doing. If they're not . . . well then . . . they're obviously not carrying as hard as they think they are and should be putting some more focus into working as a team.

However, I digress. The main point is that the Rewards 2.0 is a great step forward and it encourages teamwork, but the numbers will probably (even as PGI stated in the patch notes) see more tuning in the future. Therefore, people who are unhappy with these changes should just wait and see what tuning comes to pass.

Edited by Sereglach, 21 October 2014 - 10:48 PM.

[TamerSA]

Haven't had the time to drop in a game yet since the patch, so can't comment about the Cbill nerf.
Only got around to fitting my new reward mechs, which I can't wait to drop in

Had to nerf my Mad Splat Cat a bit due to the fixed JJ slots... was forced to drop a TAG and some ammo to retain my 4 SRM6 and 2 MG setup, but it's not really the end of the world.

BTW PGI: Saw a bug in the profile screen on the mech list. The images for the reward mechs have broken links. Just FYI.

[Bagor Aga]

Any clue if Atlas AS7-S and CN9-AH will be allowed in Invasion for particip. from clan side?

Edited by Bagor Aga, 21 October 2014 - 11:14 PM.

[Ashan An]

Bagor Aga, on 21 October 2014 - 11:13 PM, said:

Any clue if Atlas AS7-S and CN9-AH will be allowed in Invasion for particip. from clan side?

Obviously you wont be able to use them as a clanner, since they are IS mechs

Edited by JeanMarks, 21 October 2014 - 11:17 PM.

[PhoenixNMGLB]

Great patch PGI I have to say I don't see this as a cbill nerf. It just encourages a more supportive style of play which I wholly support.

I am earning pretty much the same as before but having more fun doing it

[Runs With Scissors]

Ive been trying out my new atlas and my earnings have dipped a bit. oh wait, I forgot it gets a 30% c-bill bonus, my earnings have dropped ALOT.

you earn more if you have a really good game, but significantly less if u have an average match, and garbage if u get stomped. (seriously I earned barely 17k one match, didn't think that was possible)

the bonuses also reward murderballing, kill stealing and TAG/NARC missle spam. mind you ive got nothing against lurms, but the bonuses mean every match is constant deluge, I'm up to 2 tons ams ammo and im still running dry.

the bonus c-bill rewards should be added to what we had before. if you're going to just nerf earnings to keep the match rewards the same as before, why bother putting them in in the first place?

[A sebaceous cyst]

Alright, I'm a relatively new to MWO player, I own all of 2 mechs (a SH 5m that I just finished mastery on and the Centurion I just got for purchasing MC over the weekend) and I am not a great player (yet) or even a good player...maybe even below average for the 300ish matches I have played (just wanted to get that out there before people start replying with "get better" comments...only way to get better is to play and people only play when they have fun and feel a sense of accomplishment/progression). I know my stats are subpar but they are what they are. Prior to today I was averaging 679 exps per match along with about 76000 cbills per match without any bonuses from premium time or heroes/champions. After being shocked earlier at the severe reduction in exps and cbills from the new rewards system I decided to track 10 games in the new centurion (not stock, I made a few mods) to see just how much the difference is. Most matches weren't great, but I had at least a couple of spots, 1-6 assists and 100+ damage In all games but one (the first win of the day where I had 3 spots, 1 kill, 5 assists but only 40 damage). Here are the results:
game 1: loss 103 exps 26000ish cbills
game 2: loss 114 exps 32000ish cbills
game 3: loss 155 exps 29000ish cbills
game 4: win 746 exps 70000ish cbills (1st win of the day, exps were double)
game 5: win 293 exps 63000ish cbills
game 6: win 251 exps 58000ish cbills
game 7: loss 200 exps 64000ish cbills
game 8: loss 42exps 19000ish cbills
game 9: loss 66exps 23000ish cbills
game 10: win 281exps 49000ish bills
Now I know these games weren't stellar but I was trying as much as I would on any given night. I was slightly hampered by using a new mech that has no skills (but this is pretty much what a brand new player who just completed the 25 cadet matches and just bought their first mech would experience...and yeah again I realize many many new players could do much better than me). Also after the first 2 games I stopped loading coolshots and artillary strikes because I noticed I would loose money if I had to replenish them. Prior to today in 10 games (just over an hour of play by the way) I was averaging 6800 exps and 760,000 cbills. with the "new improved" rewards system I averaged 2250 exps and 430,000 cbills with a 30% boost (around 303,000 if I had a standard mech). I know there are many of you out there who are a lot better players than I am and due to your skill (and perhaps also the skill of your teammates, specially if you drop in large groups, I dont have that luxury, I have 2 friends who play this game and were are rarely on at the same time and since there is no in-game social system I mostly play solo) are able to effectively capitalize on the "new improved" rewards system and are most likely earning more experience and cbills with this system...but the point is newer players like me aren't...and more importantly this is NOT a slight difference in rewards/earning. For newer players like me its more than a 50% reduction in cbills per hour and more than a 60% reduction in exps per hour. The grind to earn enough cbills to buy a new mech was already pretty severe but now mastery of a chassis seems almost unattainable. Frushtration will drive newer players from the game, it won't encourage them to open their wallets (right now I pretty much regret having bought MC and have completely changed my mind about getting any level of the resistance pack I was so excited about yesterday). Why is it that whenever "improvements" are launched PGI takes 3 steps backwards to take one step forward?
Take for example the JJ "improvements" to clan mechs that also launched with this patch. I have listened to my friends gripe about this and read enough posts today about it. The issue seemed to be that the stock clan mechs with JJ had fixed allocations for the JJ but if you swapped the omni pods around you could put the JJ where you wanted (at least that is how it was explained to me). So to correct the issue now all JJ are locked no matter what omnipod configurations used in clan mechs which has made many loadouts that were possible yesterday invalid today. Wouldn't it have made more sense (and made more people happy instead of angry) to go the other way, allow all variants with JJ to put the JJ where ever people wanted to (take a step forward) instead of taking away peoples choice (a step backwards)???
It was the same thing a few weeks ago with the improved ELO matchmaking (a great step forward) but we could only get it if we agreed to random game modes and loose our ability to choose not to play a game mode (or modes) we don't enjoy (for the record I play all 3 but its nice to be able to choose, specially after 5 conquests in a row)(loss of choice, a huge step backwards).
Rewards 2.0 is a step in the right direction,,,if it ADDED to the previous system and rewarded team play WITHOUT a reduction in cbills and exp (also worth mentioning the new scout rewards for lights kind of clash with the lance formation/team play rewards).

[Ahernar]

About the CBill nerf - was a way to get people to use lighter mechs for moneymaking . My old moneymaking machine was the DW now my arrow has the same moneymaking potential .The problem is that potential is lower . Not happy with the nerf part - the game got pretty grindy for a new player ()