165 replies to this topic

[Paul Inouye]

Please leave any feedback you may have regarding Alex's post on the new Reward 2.0 system here.

Spoiler

<p>Greetings,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I would like to take a moment and update you on the new Rewards 2.0 system. As this feature added so many new rewards, it was necessary to rebalance the amount of C-Bills being rewarded and keeping the game economy in check. As you can imagine it is a pretty exciting moment when a feature like this goes live for the first time, and to see what is actually happening as data flows in from games being played.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I am very pleased to tell you that, after a first gathering of data, the reward economy stayed stable. We are currently looking at fluctuations between 5% to 10% compared to what it was before. What we have found is, the economy is still intact and the new rewards are functioning very well.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>However, many of you have reported varying numbers to what you have recieved before. This is due to the new system being more targeted to role-warfare. What this translates to, is that the more specific actions based on your role on the battlefield, that you perform, results in higher earnings than before. In order to balance out the new C-Bill rewards, we had to reassess the current reward structure which resulted in some of the older rewards being reduced in C-Bill amounts.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>For example, losses and assists were slightly reduced in the amount of C-Bills you would have earned, but the reduced C-Bills were reapplied to the more role specific rewards. The outcome that you should see is a bigger difference between bad rounds and good rounds that went really well.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Even though the data gathered so far gives us a good overview over what is happening, it is not enough to come to a final conclusion. We would like to gather more data over 2 to 3 days in order to be sure the numbers we have are accurate.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You should expect a fix to tighten up the economy if there are any issues found in the new data we collect.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Alex</p>

---

Update:

Hello Folks,

With more numbers coming in and considering the feedback on the forums, we will be releasing a hotfix for the Rewards 2.0 system on Thursday. Initially it was our intention to have a bigger difference in between a good and a bad match. As it turned out now, the low end does not reward a sufficient enough amount of C-Bills. Therefore the hotfix contains an increase of the Loss reward and an increase of the C-Bills given for Assists.

Some formation rewards, like Lance Formation and Protect Proximity, were increased as well. These are specifically helpful to receive C-Bills based on positioning.

Following are the changes made:

• Assist: From 2500 CB to 3500 CB / 20 XP to 40 XP
  
• Component Destruction: 10 XP to 15 XP
  
• Loss: 10000 CB to 20000 CB
  
• Capture Pulse: 25 CB to 100 CB
  
• Lance Formation: 60 CB to 120 CB
  
• Protected Medium: 65 CB to 100 CB
  
• Protected Light: 65 CB to 100 CB
  
• Protect Proximity: 55 CB to 90 CB

Furthermore we are planning to use the Rewards 2.0 system as a basis for future additions. Please feel free to leave suggestions for other rewards here in the forum.

There are some other bugs that cought our attention:

• Tag Damage can only be granted if the target is hit by LRMs.
  
• The Flanking award is not given for an attack with LRMs.
  
• Scout reward only registers on fully gathered target information.

Last but not least, we are planning to make changes to the way the Assist reward works. Currently, and since it's initial implementation, the C-Bills are divided by the number of players achieving an assist reward for one target. Here is an example: if three players are dealing damage to the same target, the C-Bill Assist reward is then divided by 3. XP does not scale and is received independently.

For one of the future patches we plan to abandon the reward sharing and introduce a damage threshold to the Assist reward.Once this or a higher number of damage is dealt to a target, a C-Bill reward will be given independently.

Cheers,
Alex

[Dragomir Zelenka]

My primary worry is that a bad night of play will be vastly more painful than it was before. Everybody who drops PUG here knows that some nights are just stomp after stomp, and with the hugely reduced rewards for a loss it's going to make those nights even more frustrating.

I'm also worried that once people aren't running these new mechs - without unlocked skills, but with 30% bonuses - in huge numbers, things are going to look very different. Could work out of the better, could be for the worse, but it's bound to be quite different.

[Zanathan]

Awesome, keep up the good work guys.

Look forward to your findings.

[Scratx]

That is also what I suspected. The reward structure is favoring actual in-game performance more than it used to, so the difference between a good round and a bad round is going to be naturally bigger. I like it, but I do worry about new players who basically, under such a system, have no hope whatsoever of making good cbills aside from the cadet bonus.

Some food for thought there, but you folks really need to eye that "low-end" and make sure it's not TOO low-end.

[Rebas Kradd]

So, what exactly is the mean C-Bill earning rate that you guys are trying so hard to maintain?

Because just so you're aware, nobody has any idea what your "economy" actually is.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 21 October 2014 - 05:25 PM.

[Jman5]

From what I have seen wins are giving me a good chunk more and losses are giving me a good chunk less. One thing I worry about is that many of the new rewards rely on kill shots.

So lets say I'm close range and do most of the damage, but I don't get the kill shot. I get:

Assist: 2500
kill most damage: 5000

total: 7500

Then lets say same thing, but I get kill shot I get:

Killing blow: 4000
kill most damage: 5000
solo kill: 10,000
Brawling: 4500
Component destruction: 2300

Total: 25,800

18,500 extra from getting the last bit of damage on that mech.

Am I reading the patch notes wrong? That's a pretty significant difference.

Edited by Jman5, 21 October 2014 - 05:33 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Jman5, on 21 October 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

From what I have seen wins are giving me a good chunk more and losses are giving me a good chunk less. One thing I worry about is that many of the new rewards rely on kill shots.

So lets say I'm close range and do most of the damage, but I don't get the kill shot. I get:

Assist: 2500
kill most damage: 5000

total: 7500

Then lets say same thing, but I get kill shot I get:

Killing blow: 4000
kill most damage: 5000
solo kill: 10,000
Brawling: 4500
Component destruction: 2300

Total: 25,800

18,500 extra from getting the last bit of damage on that mech.

Am I reading the patch notes wrong? That's a pretty significant difference.

Which is awesome to get that much when you solo an enemy.

The reverse of this is that when someone comes up and steals your kill, they get:

Killing blow: 4000

So you get more than the kill stealer.

Edited by KraftySOT, 21 October 2014 - 05:35 PM.

[Jman5]

KraftySOT, on 21 October 2014 - 05:35 PM, said:

Which is awesome to get that much when you solo an enemy.

The reverse of this is that when someone comes up and steals your kill, they get:

Killing blow: 4000

So you get more than the kill stealer.

You get more than the kill stealer, but he just screwed you out of 18,500 cbills. The whole point of making assists and kills similar is to avoid angst over kill stealing.

• Solo kill is the most problematic stat because it compounds killshot rewards. It should be tossed out entirely and the money should be slotted into other stats.
  
  
• Brawler should be changed to only need "kill most damage" instead of it and and kill shot.
  
  
• Assists should also be bumped up to 4000 or kill shots should be brought down to 2300 (remember component destructions are auto-added in whenever you get a killshot).

Edited by Jman5, 21 October 2014 - 06:32 PM.

[Tezcatli]

Do LRMs get flank bonus even if they're no where near their target? If so. I call BS. Please don't let button pushers get rewards that pilots who actually have to risk their mechs to get.

Edited by Tezcatli, 21 October 2014 - 05:42 PM.

[Xarian]

• The rewards system is cool, giving bonuses for various roles.
  
• The new system gives too little reward (both C-Bills and XP) when you lose. This needs to be fixed - at least one team is losing every game. They shouldn't feel that they wasted their time. Of course, LRM boats still get tons of C-Bills and XP bonuses thanks to flanking.
  
• LRMs should not receive Flanking bonus. It's too easy to cheat the system using LRMs.
  
• The actual numbers for C-Bills and XP given out are ******* ridiculously too small.

Edited by Xarian, 21 October 2014 - 05:44 PM.

[PappySmurf]

Rewind MWO back to closed beta before everyone un-installs the game and start over with the reward system after all players were expecting rewards not a 45-50% drop in C-bills per battle.

[Khell3770]

What kind of average rewards per match are you guys looking for? I'd like a actual number range in C-Bill and XP plz.

[Brody319]

Even when I am doing my very best, 3 kills 8 assists, 1 kill and 7 assists, 12 assists, ect I'm making bare minimum or equal to before. I understand role warfare but it seems like you are only rewards the lights and mediums for doing their job. I'm in a timberwolf and an atlas and I should be on the front lines doing a ton of damage, but even when I do its not enough of a reward. The rewards to lights and mediums are fine becuase they need something to make them better, but the whole system is now punishing heavy and assaults for no reason, They could be doing their very best but people will kill steal and you won't get rewarded. The previous system made kills and assists about the same, while it wasnt fair how someone can just sweep a team with a laser and get the same amount of money, now its just encouraging kill stealing even more.

You put the stormcrow and shadowhawk on sale, both super good mechs, loads of people are playing them and thus getting rewards. The numbers look the same not because the rewards equal out, but because of other influences.
Statistics, you can't look at the average because of extremes and other influences that won't show up on the average. Look at individual numbers and you see unless you are playing a medium/light and stealing kills you are probably not making as much money.

[Zeece]

I have to say my experience has been blah at best... with all the Comp teams running I've been losing all night and with premium time I'm barely covering costs of consumables... The one winning match was had amazing cash and xp.. but losing even with a good score is essentially covering my costs... I feel bad for my teammates without it because they are making almost nothing in the same matches.

To Clarify XP is ok.. but cbill earnings for us is WAY down.

[HBizzle]

**** this new system. I am punished for playing as a team.

[N0MAD]

Hey Paul, same challenge for you as for Russ.
Grab a C mech or an unmodded medium/heavy and go play 1/2 dozen games in the solo Q, post Screenies of the games without picking the best (we trust you,,, really we do, cough).
That will give you all the feedback you will need...
Go on do it.

[Saint H8oraide of the Wine]

I've had 6 matches today with less then 40k c-bill...all with at least 1 kill and a few assists...and 2 of those were wins. Yesterday i had around 10 matches were i got over 200k c-bills (no premium time), today, i have had 1 Match over 140k c-bills. These were all in pug match btw. Hell, while i was typing this out i had a match were i got torn up by a teammate and the cored early, and i made 16,000 c-bill. This change is terrible for pug matches, because you can't depend or even hope for half the rewards.

[WarHippy]

Paul Inouye, on 21 October 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

Please leave any feedback you may have regarding Alex's post on the new Reward 2.0 system here.

Spoiler

Greetings,

I would like to take a moment and update you on the new Rewards 2.0 system. As this feature added so many new rewards, it was necessary to rebalance the amount of C-Bills being rewarded and keeping the game economy in check. As you can imagine it is a pretty exciting moment when a feature like this goes live for the first time, and to see what is actually happening as data flows in from games being played.

I am very pleased to tell you that, after a first gathering of data, the reward economy stayed stable. We are currently looking at fluctuations between 5% to 10% compared to what it was before. What we have found is, the economy is still intact and the new rewards are functioning very well.

However, many of you have reported varying numbers to what you have recieved before. This is due to the new system being more targeted to role-warfare. What this translates to, is that the more specific actions based on your role on the battlefield, that you perform, results in higher earnings than before. In order to balance out the new C-Bill rewards, we had to reassess the current reward structure which resulted in some of the older rewards being reduced in C-Bill amounts.

For example, losses and assists were slightly reduced in the amount of C-Bills you would have earned, but the reduced C-Bills were reapplied to the more role specific rewards. The outcome that you should see is a bigger difference between bad rounds and good rounds that went really well.

Even though the data gathered so far gives us a good overview over what is happening, it is not enough to come to a final conclusion. We would like to gather more data over 2 to 3 days in order to be sure the numbers we have are accurate.

You should expect a fix to tighten up the economy if there are any issues found in the new data we collect.

Cheers,
Alex

The problem with moving the rewards to other rolls is that not all mechs are able to efficiently perform those other rolls so they end up screwed. We went from one lop sided reward system to another, and as such you are going to get complaints. I for one was not a fan of the low rewards in the old system and so far this one is a little chaotic and less than enjoyable for me.

[Butane9000]

Out of the matches I've played today the worst was 19,000 C-Bills (I was instant killed by high alpha meta in my Vindicator) and the best was 202,000 C-Bills (my Founders 4G where we stomped). But I have been averaging between 40-70,000 C-Bills which is far lower then pre-patch at 90-130,000.

[TheMadTypist]

Initially I was on a win streak and thought it was pretty great, but a few losses and I got a little more data.

Pugging tonight in the Hunch-4G, Hunch-4J, Cent-AH(+30%), and BLR-1G (+30%), I've been seeing that wins range from equal with previous to around +20 to +35k over what I think I'd be expecting over previous values. I'd guess, based on feel rather than raw numbers, average of +15-20k per win.

Early deaths, regardless of match outcome, seem to be around -10-15k below previous values. Losses in general seem to be -15k to -30k below their previous values.

Too early to call a net change. It is working well enough that I do not have a bad first impression, so if there does lie an issue it is small enough to avoid casting a pall over the evening's activity. I do like the changes in player behavior I've seen from the new reward system, much more grouping up and protective actions between teammates. I do have an overall positive impression from the results of the whole patch.