179 replies to this topic

[Poptimus Rhyme Wallace]

completely off topic but thought I would give you all an idea of where all these problems stem from...

The math used for mechanics, I have worked with balancing mechanics since my pre-teens, and allow me to say that the calculations the mechanics depend on in MWO is extemely amateur hour stuff.

Take the Targeting Computers for instance, Here you have a piece of equipment with 6 sub-stats:
Info get speed
sensor range
Zoom distance
Beam Range
Projectile speed
Critical Chance

ALL of these substats follow the same progression scale, regardless of their relative effect, worst of all, the 0.xx values the scale is based off is right there amongst the substats.
The target info get base value and increase, is directly used for ALL other calculations on the TC, the Crit chance just have .50 added to its base value but otherwise follows the exact same progression scale.

This is so incredibly lazy i re-did the math 3 times because i did not believe it to be true the first two.
I refuse to accept that more then 30 minutes have been spent figuring out those values, it is imo rather pathetic work by whoever is in charge of that.
I would not imagine that it could take much more than 3 days of testing to get all values brought into line for all equipment and weapons, you would not even need a big pool of players, because to balance values you just need a clear vision of how your system works from the get go.
I have done it many, many times with RPGs and RTS games, broken the whole system down in a couple of days and rewritten all static values to create a more balanced experience, if i can do it alone in a few days for a game designed by someone else, there is no reason a whole team who build this thing from the get go is this inept at making the appropriate adjustments required to bring about a balanced product.
My conclusion, PGI have not a single math-balancer guy working for them...

[Divran]

I'm more worried about the fact that the items were deleted from the affected torsos and I didn't get them back. I also don't seem to have gotten any cbills back from the disappearing weapons (but I could be mistaken, I don't remember exactly how many cbills I had) Do I have to rebuy all the weapons that used to be in the torsos on my affected mechs?

EDIT: nevermind, browsed the forums a bit, found another user with the same problem. You just have to save the changes and then hit configure again and the items will appear in your inventory.

Edited by Divran, 28 October 2014 - 04:40 AM.

[HUNTERS MOON]

New emblem suggestion:

An Atlas holding a Kitfox upside-down by one leg, shaking large gold coins out of the Kitfox like money dropping from its pockets, if it had any. The caption? "WELCOME TO ANOTHER PGI PATCH."

Let me know your thoughts.

[Caustic Canid]

Thorn Hallis, on 28 October 2014 - 03:06 AM, said:

You couldn't built the CANON Timberwolf D in MWO anyway, because there are no rear-firing weapons here.

While I understand the reason of the change itself I don't think it was a good idea. Plus any change that invalidates a stock loadout (like ghost heat did before) doesn't make the people in charge look pretty smart.

There are other mechs in MWO that are supposed to have rear facing weapons that don't, like the Atlas. Even so, I would gladly take a Timberwolf with 2 front and 2 rear facing missle hardpoints. Of course it would get nerfed 1 month later when the devs are drowning in light pilot tears because now they can't even get behind a t-wolf without being shredded by s-srms.

[Naduk]

Caustic Canid, on 28 October 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

you automatically jump to f1 and forget about Pikes Peak, group B or any of the long distance slogs like the Dakar Rally. Also, were talking about an online videogame, as opposed to the most over-regulated, boring (next to nascar) motorsport on the planet. If we're going by those standards, we should only have one mech chassis, that cannot be customized equipped with only lasers.

Are we talking about PVP in general, or battletech specific? Because I think all of the people calling for clan nerfs are forgetting that the clans are SUPPOSED to be OP. That's the whole point. They are the bad guys that the inner sphere (good guys) are supposed to overcome.

I guess I missed the part in the books/lore where the inner sphere pilots cried to the creators who eventually just nerfed the crap out of the clans so the IS could coast to an easy victory.

But since PGI failed at the simple task of figuring out how to have IS vs Clan matches (12 v 10), now the clans have to be "brought into line" with the IS.

But honestly, my main complaint about the nerf is that the S variant is even IN the game. It's an oddball outlier, almost never used in the BT universe, that now makes up 30% of ALL TIMBERWOLVES. I just want PGI to put the D variant into the game so I can run the mech I actually wanted in the first place.

only reason i picked F1 is because its the extreme end of "balance"
the Dakar Rally is a very good analogy reference for mechwarrior due to the classes
any activity that is of competitive nature and involves humans against humans is setup with rules to enforce balance
because at the end of the day, we humans desire to know we had a fair go at it
even if we never had a chance to win, we want to know that our opponents were playing by the same rules as us
and if you apply what i said to any other competitive game, you will see the same things

MWO is a PvP game and is balanced as such, battletech is the source but thats where its influence ends
for a game like MWO to survive players must feel like they are playing by the same rules as everyone else
when units like a timberwolf come along that can do everything that any other mech can do and better
it blows that sense of equality out of the water and with complete justification

it is why 12vs10 would never have worked
even if they tried it it would of had to have been 12+50% extra tonnage v10 or12v6 because clans are(were) just that strong
people just would not go for it, clan lore of its supposed to be better goes right out the window when competitive nature comes into play

[Menetius]

Just saying... I'd rather have never seen the Clans implemented at all than have them insulted in the way PGI has gimped them.

Or maybe they could have been added as the AI in a PVE game-mode. Anything is better than dampening the spirit of Superior Technology (Clans) vs. Sheer Number (IS).

But that's my preference: one I'm sure not many share.

Edited by Menetius, 28 October 2014 - 06:51 PM.

[ManusDei]

I know how you feel. We have all had to endure the painstaking decisions PGI (** or one person like Paul ** cough cough**) has made to weapons balancing, mech nerfng, matchmaking madness, etc. One thing PGI cannot ever nerf is your pilot skills. Remember no matter how hard PGI tries they can never keep a good pilot down no matter what the build or weapon of choice. Skill transcends all nerfing.

Edited by ManusDei, 29 October 2014 - 10:57 AM.

[MrBlonde42]

Avarice1of2, on 26 October 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Well MR Blonda what about those of use who want quad lrm 5 and twin uac2

Yes, you want your cake and to eat it too... well your build got caught in the crossfire between OP and balance. No stock TBR use quad LRM5 and dual uac2. What I'm trying to address is that PGI gave us OP options when there were more balanced configurations that fit the timeline better. Those OP options were used by some to create lore correct stock builds, which have now been broken.
To those that say the TBR-D can't have the rear firing S-SRM6's, all weapons that face the rear in TT face forward in MWO. As seen on Atlai, Centurions, and Battlemasters to name a few.

[ApolloKaras]

So what did you all think was going to happen... The nova had fixed JJ's... The Summoner had fixed JJ's...

[Moonlander]

I just read all 9 pages for the lulz.

[WonderSparks]

Moonlander, on 29 October 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

I just read all 9 pages for the lulz.

I have been reading it all myself and it is kind of sad, really. I am partially amazed it has continued this long, and partially not.

[Moonlander]

WonderSparks, on 29 October 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I have been reading it all myself and it is kind of sad, really. I am partially amazed it has continued this long, and partially not.

"I payed good money for this mech and now I can't use overpowered loadouts but I'm still the most powerful heavy mech in the game, hands down"

or

"I payed good money for this mech and now I can't have beastly overpowered loadouts and the ability to skew hitreg with JJ's (even more than it already is), while still maintaining the throne of most powerful heavy mech in the game"

Also, Terms of Use too gud, plz nerf.

Edited by Moonlander, 29 October 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[GargoyleVine]

DarkAlman, on 21 October 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

I log in tonight and all my Timberwolf builds are all invalid because I have to mount fixed jump jets all of a sudden?

What the heck happened to these being omnimechs?

I call BS...

I paid $50 for this dang thing specifically to make these builds!

i hear ya, my t-wolf "invalid" is the biggest load of crap! I call BS too. has nothing to do with pay to win at all. I pre-ordered my mech that way so leave it the heck alone, you got my money, now give me my t-wolf back. don't punish us because we love our t-wolf and made sick builds by removing the stupid jj's on a mech that shouldn't have 'em in the first place. bunch of ******* must have got banged so they nerfed

[Shimmering Sword]

ITT: People who thought they were buying specific custom builds when they gave PGI money.

Guess what, you paid for the name "Timber Wolf", some mech bays, and some 3D assets. Read an agreement some time in your life. Timber Wolf is still OP and has some of the best viable loadout variety in the game.

[GargoyleVine]

Shimmering Sword, on 29 October 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

ITT: People who thought they were buying specific custom builds when they gave PGI money.

Guess what, you paid for the name "Timber Wolf", some mech bays, and some 3D assets. Read an agreement some time in your life. Timber Wolf is still OP and has some of the best viable loadout variety in the game.

whatever dude, your missing the point and don't insult me with your jibberish

[Seigaku]

The devs of this game suck and is impressive how many brainwashed fanboys there are that don't realize this xD

[Bulvar Jorgensson]

We now have the scenario where...

IS mechs are COMPLETELY player changeable (within the constraints of hardpoints) with tweeks/querks soon to off-set disadvantages.

Clan Mechs are OMNI-POD Changeable (within the hardpoints) yet will have Fixed Armour types/endo/JJ and HS with no Querks.

Now Trolls/clan haters will still complain about clan mechs are OP, they are not they have better range weapons that is it, and on the most part better pilots.

Somewhere along the line PGI has to look at the fact that they should have just made Battlemechs ALL Preconfigured with no changes to stock being allowed and made pilots buy Quirks to assign to their favourite mechs...STOCK mech Mondays anyone???? all the time.

Perfect solves all the issues, you buy the mech, use it as you buy it, and maybe after buying a Quirk/skill for yourself you enhance your play of STOMPY ROBOTS ONLINE.

PGI tailors the game round them apples.

[ImperialKnight]

wow, this thread is still going?

GargoyleVine, on 30 October 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

whatever dude, your missing the point and don't insult me with your jibberish

dude, how long have you been playing online games? There has NEVER been an online game where character/skills/mechanics have not been changed in some way in the name of balance.

if you believed what you said, you can start to complain about every change to the game?

"I paid for a mech in a game with 8v8. How dare they introduce 12v12? I want my money back!"

"I paid for a mech where the medium pulse lasers only went up to 180m. How dare they increase the range. I want my money back!"

"I paid for a mech in a game where there were no clan mechs. How dare they introduce new mechs. I want my money back!"

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

Just come play Warthunder... things their are VERY fluid! Especially the "paid for with real world money" Planes

Another point to note... our laser vomit Twolves are about to get nastier with the increased LPL damage and decreased beam time!

Edited by Keira RAVEN McKenna, 30 October 2014 - 11:49 PM.