311 replies to this topic

[The Mechromancer]

Can someone explain the first paragraph under "Loyalty Points"?

Does that mean LPs have been tracked? Or they are just giving a flat number to Phoenix people?

If they have been tracked, what does that mean for people who have been in merc corps, or lone wolves?

[DEMAX51]

The Mechromancer, on 23 October 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

Can someone explain the first paragraph under "Loyalty Points"?

Does that mean LPs have been tracked? Or they are just giving a flat number to Phoenix people?

If they have been tracked, what does that mean for people who have been in merc corps, or lone wolves?

Pretty sure it hasn't been tracked, and that it's just going to be a lump sum for anyone who owns the Phoenix package.

[Fantastic Ergo]

I am not sure if anyone has comment on LP rewards yet.
I really don't like that once you won a reward, you could loose it because your loyalty points went under the necessary rank. If there are higher rewards then yea lets climb the reward tree again but don't take away what has been grinded already.
As it is, the grind in this game is really hard for players that have work, family and other things to do. I love the game but the grind really is one of the slowest I have ever seen on any game and is ok for those who play this game for hours every night, and as much as I would enjoy to do that I just don't have the time. If I bust my rear getting a reward I would really hate to see I go.
The way is proposed, it will make I so I don't even care to get any reward at all...
Everything else proposed seems great and I can't wait!

Edited by Fantastic Ergo, 23 October 2014 - 11:15 AM.

[Sandtiger]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

only real concern:

"I would highly recommend that you add a new restriction preventing new players (those who have not finished their first 25 cadet matches) from participating. This will prevent much rage from competitive teams.

This is something we can discuss and has been mentioned. I'll fill everyone in if anything comes of this. We do think it would not be ideal for a brand new player to drop into CW."



Really? While I agree it might not be ideal, are we catering CW to the 1% ? Am I really the only one getting tired of everything catering to the "Comp Crowd"? I am glad you are (probably) doing away with Leagues, as I am relatively certain mos tof the playerbase is not here for Esports. But I could not possibly care less about "rage from competitive teams".

Half the headaches players have dealt with over the last 2 years is spawned from Metarape from Comps. (The other half bad balancing). Give them their little leagues where they can cookie cutter meta to their hearts content.

WELL SPOKEN!!!! I could not say this better myself. Please stop catering to the Comps! If you want to initiate changes, please put them in game or the log in screen somewhere for new votes. These people are seriously giving you bad advise. If you want to make changes, get the whole view. Not this tunnel vision of the way they would like it to be.

Cheers!

[Logan Hawke]

I'm highly disappointed with the decision to do away with seasons. I cannot see any appeal in the slightest of fighting a never ending conflict with no end goal, no meaningful wins or losses, and no real, well, point. Even Eternal Crusade, the WH40K PS2-esque game (you know, of the 'there is only war' tagline) is having campaigns instead of a persistent game because they understand that it gets stale.
I know it wasn't PGI's first choice so I'm not blaming them. Squeakiest wheel gets the grease, guess I shouldn't have sat back in contentment after the initial announcement of seasons. And I'd be willing to bet the majority of people into seasons are the same people that never visit the forums so hopefully PGI/the forums will figure things out in the first six months or so.

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

only real concern:

"I would highly recommend that you add a new restriction preventing new players (those who have not finished their first 25 cadet matches) from participating. This will prevent much rage from competitive teams.

This is something we can discuss and has been mentioned. I'll fill everyone in if anything comes of this. We do think it would not be ideal for a brand new player to drop into CW."



Really? While I agree it might not be ideal, are we catering CW to the 1% ? Am I really the only one getting tired of everything catering to the "Comp Crowd"? I am glad you are (probably) doing away with Leagues, as I am relatively certain mos tof the playerbase is not here for Esports. But I could not possibly care less about "rage from competitive teams".

Half the headaches players have dealt with over the last 2 years is spawned from Metarape from Comps. (The other half bad balancing). Give them their little leagues where they can cookie cutter meta to their hearts content.

What about the players who are here for fun and winning and goals and not for battletech roleplaying (after all this isn't an RPG)

Edited by Logan Hawke, 23 October 2014 - 11:48 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Logan Hawke, on 23 October 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

I'm highly disappointed with the decision to do away with seasons. I cannot see any appeal in the slightest of fighting a never ending conflict with no end goal, no meaningful wins or losses, and no real, well, point. Even Eternal Crusade, the WH40K PS2-esque game (you know, of the 'there is only war' tagline) is having campaigns instead of a persistent game because they understand that it gets stale.
I know it wasn't PGI's first choice so I'm not blaming them. Squeakiest wheel gets the grease, guess I shouldn't have sat back in contentment after the initial announcement of seasons. And I'd be willing to bet the majority of people into seasons are the same people that never visit the forums so hopefully PGI/the forums will figure things out in the first six months or so.



What about the players who are here for fun and winning and goals and not for battletech roleplaying (after all this isn't an RPG)

And? One can't have both without silly Seasons? Not everyone gives a fart about esports.

[Cimarb]

Logan Hawke, on 23 October 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

I'm highly disappointed with the decision to do away with seasons. I cannot see any appeal in the slightest of fighting a never ending conflict with no end goal, no meaningful wins or losses, and no real, well, point....What about the players who are here for fun and winning and goals and not for battletech roleplaying (after all this isn't an RPG)

I would like to direct you to the "public queue", which is designed for those that just want to have fun and not role playing. Have a blast while we want something to work towards and immerse ourselves in. /wave

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

What kind of benefits will there be to the different durations of Affiliation contracting? Will Lifetime Affiliations get a +10% LP gain rate? Will they be allowed to unlock special rewards that aren't available to temporary Affiliations (even long, 4-month contracts)?

Within limited Affiliation periods, will longer contracts pay out more? Will they give boosted C-bills, or reduced contract bidding, or boosted LP gain, or some other benefit to be worth the loss of flexibility?

Will there be a way to buy-out of an Affiliation should a player change his mind?

[Logan Hawke]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

And? One can't have both without silly Seasons? Not everyone gives a fart about esports.

Most people are competitive to one degree or another, as I'm sure you'd agree. It doesn't have to be 'esports' to be competitive, and not everything competitive is 'esports'. And what goals are they going to be? Take 'Dawn' by the end of today? Why, it's just going to be recaptured sooner or later. There's no reason to hold it or fight for it unless I'm willing to fight for it eternally.

Cimarb, on 23 October 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

I would like to direct you to the "public queue", which is designed for those that just want to have fun and not role playing. Have a blast while we want something to work towards and immerse ourselves in. /wave

So this is a role playing game to you? Is that the only type of person you want in CW? I'd like something to work towards too, not just endless games over and over again with no point. Hence me wanting seasons instead of eternal. You're basically asking for the same endless fighting with names given to the worlds you're fighting for. There's still no real reason to fight because you will never truly win.

Edited by Logan Hawke, 23 October 2014 - 12:03 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Logan Hawke, on 23 October 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

Most people are competitive to one degree or another, as I'm sure you'd agree. It doesn't have to be 'esports' to be competitive, and not everything competitive is 'esports'. And what goals are they going to be? Take 'Dawn' by the end of today? Why, it's just going to be recaptured sooner or later. There's no reason to hold it or fight for it unless I'm willing to fight for it eternally.

I think while there are those who agree with you, there are huge number who disagree. But really, with "seasons" anything you win is just as illusory. And less impactful, since it's a peremptory reset to baseline, anyhow, vs the player deciding the baseline.

Seasons remove the forward impetus to the whole overarching story, which is what leads to new wars, new tech, new mechs.

Basically, what you are asking for can be achieved in the "casual" Queue, whereas CW has always been advertised as the full monty for the Btech faithful. If you just want seasons and winners, you can have that NOW, in the current system.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 October 2014 - 12:04 PM.

[Logan Hawke]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

I think while there are those who agree with you, there are huge number who disagree. But really, with "seasons" anything you win is just as illusory. And less impactful, since it's a peremptory reset to baseline, anyhow, vs the player deciding the baseline.

Seasons remove the forward impetus to the whole overarching story, which is what leads to new wars, new tech, new mechs.

Basically, what you are asking for can be achieved in the "casual" Queue, whereas CW has always been advertised as the full monty for the Btech faithful. If you just want seasons and winners, you can have that NOW, in the current system.

It would be illusory if there weren't any rewards/awards/recognition at the end of the season to those who won, those who fought well, etc. That's what would make CW seasons better than perpetual, without that it's pretty much the same thing. And I think you are right, there are more that agree with you on these forums, but that's the problem. The forums are a very small percentage of the actual playerbase. They also happen to be the people most heavily invested in the lore and universe, and as such are far more inclined to agree with you.

I really don't consider this game an RPG at all, that's what my BT RPG group is for, not CW. And seasons would absolutely let us get new wars, tech, and mechs. In fact it would be far better because it can focus/highlight those specific times instead of spending far too long in one area. And Russ even agreed with that to an extent, saying it was an interesting idea and could be called 'shards'.

And no, it really can't be achieved in the casual que. There's no overarching victory or goal with normal games. Just like there's no overarching victory or goal with persistent CW.

Edited by Logan Hawke, 23 October 2014 - 12:13 PM.

[Ripper X]

Fantastic Ergo, on 23 October 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

I am not sure if anyone has comment on LP rewards yet.
I really don't like that once you won a reward, you could loose it because your loyalty points went under the necessary rank. If there are higher rewards then yea lets climb the reward tree again but don't take away what has been grinded already.
As it is, the grind in this game is really hard for players that have work, family and other things to do. I love the game but the grind really is one of the slowest I have ever seen on any game and is ok for those who play this game for hours every night, and as much as I would enjoy to do that I just don't have the time. If I bust my rear getting a reward I would really hate to see I go.
The way is proposed, it will make I so I don't even care to get any reward at all...
Everything else proposed seems great and I can't wait!

I am not cool with grinding for rewards and then have them taken away because I switched a faction. If you unlocked something through grinding then it should be yours permanently.

[KuroNyra]

Question: You said this
"With this system, it IS possible for a Merc Unit to align to House Steiner for [1] month and at the end of that month, switch to a [1] month alignment to Clan Jade Falcon. Note that this will NOT bypass technology locks. When the Unit is aligned to Steiner, only IS 'Mechs can be used, and when aligned to Clan Jade Falcon, only Clan 'Mechs can be used."



Basicly, it's gonna be IS mech vs Clan Mech for the IS vs Clan battle?

I'm definitly gonna take the permanent Clan Wolf contract ^^

Edited by KuroNyra, 23 October 2014 - 12:23 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Logan Hawke, on 23 October 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

It would be illusory if there weren't any rewards/awards/recognition at the end of the season to those who won, those who fought well, etc. That's what would make CW seasons better than perpetual, without that it's pretty much the same thing. And I think you are right, there are more that agree with you on these forums, but that's the problem. The forums are a very small percentage of the actual playerbase. They also happen to be the people most heavily invested in the lore and universe, and as such are far more inclined to agree with you.

I really don't consider this game an RPG at all, that's what my BT RPG group is for, not CW. And seasons would absolutely let us get new wars, tech, and mechs. In fact it would be far better because it can focus/highlight those specific times instead of spending far too long in one area. And Russ even agreed with that to an extent, saying it was an interesting idea and could be called 'shards'.

And no, it really can't be achieved in the casual que. There's no overarching victory or goal with normal games. Just like there's no overarching victory or goal with persistent CW.

There is as much overarching victory and goal in Perpetual Warfare as PGI wants to put into it. There Is ZERO reason there won't be huge goals attainable. What was the Battle of Tukayyid, or Luthien? Repelling the clans from both are much more memorable than "I won RHoD season 2!!!!".

[CyclonerM]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

Seasons remove the forward impetus to the whole overarching story, which is what leads to new wars, new tech, new mechs.

-

Basically, what you are asking for can be achieved in the "casual" Queue, whereas CW has always been advertised as the full monty for the Btech faithful. If you just want seasons and winners, you can have that NOW, in the current system.

Two best quotes of the week!

Btw, my feedback.

I mean, i should not only complain when i do not like things, but i should also express my happiness, quiaff?

I like most of the update

I am VERY glad seasons have been removed (for the moment) for the plans!

I understand and appreciate the logic behind eternal allegiance to a faction. However, i think it may work better for eternal solo players. Indeed, even if i have been in the same unit for more than a year, in the next year i might (very low odds though) change Clan unit; maybe, i will think that there are no other Clan Wolf units fitting my expectations so i join a Ghost Bear or Nova Cat unit. I love Clan Wolf, but i want to fight in CW as part of an unit. If i declared my eternal loyalty to Clan Wolf, i would not be able to join a CGB or another Clan's unit (btw, in the Clans this would be a pretty common scenarios, as defeated warriors are taken as bondsmen and some Clans allow some of them to be returned to their warrior status).

I have three questions about allegiance:
1) I am not totally sure, is there any difference between lone wolf/ mercenary unit player and loyalist? Or are we all mercs declaring our allegiance to a faction for a period of time?
2) What happens if i declare my allegiance to Clan Wolf for [4 months], i join a CW unit and then my allegiance expires? Am i kicked from the unit?
3)Are mercs allowed to fight for the Clans? The Clans despise mercenaries. Their place should be taken by Clan loyalists aka Dagger Star people.

Another important issue: one or two maps may be quite too few to represent the different environments you can find on a planet. Besides, after an invading force has landed, at least of the following battles could be represented by either Assault or Skirmish. I think it would be wise to include at least some Skirmish matches and maps after some Invasion drops.

Keep up the good work and remember us, the BT fans who have waited so long for CW

Logan Hawke, on 23 October 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

It would be illusory if there weren't any rewards/awards/recognition at the end of the season to those who won, those who fought well, etc. That's what would make CW seasons better than perpetual, without that it's pretty much the same thing. And I think you are right, there are more that agree with you on these forums, but that's the problem. The forums are a very small percentage of the actual playerbase. They also happen to be the people most heavily invested in the lore and universe, and as such are far more inclined to agree with you.

I really don't consider this game an RPG at all, that's what my BT RPG group is for, not CW. And seasons would absolutely let us get new wars, tech, and mechs. In fact it would be far better because it can focus/highlight those specific times instead of spending far too long in one area. And Russ even agreed with that to an extent, saying it was an interesting idea and could be called 'shards'.

And no, it really can't be achieved in the casual que. There's no overarching victory or goal with normal games. Just like there's no overarching victory or goal with persistent CW.

Russ said more than a time that CW is considered "hardcore roleplaying mode" (though it is actually not that hardcore or we would have some kind of 'Mech limitation based on the 'Mechs manufactured by your faction and that stuff.. ), so it is basically more aimed at us, the BT fans. There is still much place for more casual players in CW though: all the rewards for winning matches and taking planets await you!

Btw, there is no need (nor it would be desiderable, even with seasons imho) to have a single House/Clan take the whole Inner Sphere (as if it was possible with 3000+ planets ). The potential very cool thing with a persistent Sphere is that we can decide our own goal, make our own history of the Inner Sphere and see how it developes further and further (or maybe close! Who knows?) to the canon events.

The Clans have their specific goal: being the first to reach Terra, the Cradle of Humanity, and become the IlClan. I know there is 0 chance of all Clan Wolf players agreeing to fighting togheter for a goal, but if we get to Terra first, i would propose to fight the Crusader Clans to stop their bloody invasion. If another Clan took it, we could challenge it for the planet! What will happen?

The Free Worlds League players would seek to capture more worlds intot he Lyran Commonwealth, or maybe to try to conquer the Capellan Confederation. Maybe it could ally the FedSuns to achieve this goal. Mercs would flock to defend the CC, attracted by the potential money, and maybe ..

So many possibilities! I love the thought that i have to live with the outcome of the battles i play in..

Ripper X, on 23 October 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

I am not cool with grinding for rewards and then have them taken away because I switched a faction. If you unlocked something through grinding then it should be yours permanently.

Neg. I always thought that they should let you use only the loyalty items of the faction you are fighting for, and they did it!

If you are a traitor of House Davion and join the Draconis Combine (to use their example) you would never fly a Davion skin or banner (an overzealous officer might have you shot ).

Besides, we need some penalty to faction switching besides losses of LPs imho.

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

What was the Battle of Tukayyid, or Luthien? Repelling the clans from both are much more memorable than "I won RHoD season 2!!!!".

Third best quote of the week

[BARBAR0SSA]

"Some planned LP rewards include titles, Faction specific skins, Rank specific skins and other novelites. The full list of rewards will be listed once we have them ironed out with both the design and art teams"

This needs to be expanded into something with more substance, reward the best of the best. Faction specific "unique" weapons or mechs etc. I'd find it more exciting to be fighting and then see some unique mech and going "Oh he must be good, better be careful".

Pretty much zero reason to give a crap about LP

[Morang]

How will alignment work for units players who are not leaders? Will they be assigned to faction automatically upon leader's choice or will they be presented a choice after the selection of faction by leader - to agree with leader's choice or to leave the unit (especially as there's a choice of permanent alignment)? And what will happen with alignment of the player who left the unit - will he be able to select new alignment immediately or will he be forced to serve the term "inherited" from the unit?

Quote

If the player has an LP total of Rank 8 requirements, then they can freely use the title "Gunsho". However, if the player switches to Davion for example, and they fight for Davion against Kurita and the player's Kurita LP total drops below Rank 8 requirements, they will no longer be able to set their title to "Gunsho" even if they switch back to Kurita. At this point (we're still debating this one) the player can select "Gunsho" as their title but it will be prepended with "Honorary". The title will become "Honorary Gunsho" until the player gets their LP total back to Rank 8 requirement.

Better call them "Dishonorary Gunsho" until they regain the LP!

[Logan Hawke]

@Bishop:

If there are multiple attainable goals that's better than nothing, but chances are they won't be the same kind of impactful, lasting goals as your faction winning a season.
The problem with that event is that I (and I'm sure many others) want to fight the Battle of Tukayyid from multiple sides, at the very least IS and Clan. In a persistent universe that can only happen once because it only happened once. Even though Tukayyid will almost certainly be fought over multiple times, there's only going to be one true battle of Tukayyid.
And what about people who want to fight in the Star League era, or Succession wars, or 3039?

@Cyclone:

I suppose the greatest reason I feel so strongly about it (and boy oh boy do I feel very ******* strongly about it) is because I've seen the horrors/stale boredom that a persistent game can unleash ala PS2 and EVE firsthand. If MWO resembles or becomes those in any way I will no longer be able to enjoy the game anymore and unlike those games I actually enjoy the franchise this one comes from and would therefore very much like to keep enjoying it.
And while yeah, those goals are fine and all, they're not going to last or have any real meaning. Chances are they'll be taken back by the end of the week if the various factions are balanced numbers wise and will just keep flip flopping back and forth for eternity like the Crown in PS2.

And that sort of boring, stale gameplay is something that I think would be tragic to see in this game. You can still roleplay in seasons, you can still do your thing as far as that goes, it's just that in seasons you'll actually be able to say '**** yeah, we won it for Clan Wolf!' and have it mean something.

Edited by Logan Hawke, 23 October 2014 - 12:40 PM.

[CyclonerM]

Logan Hawke, on 23 October 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

@Cyclone:

I suppose the greatest reason I feel so strongly about it (and boy oh boy do I feel very ******* strongly about it) is because I've seen the horrors/stale boredom that a persistent game can unleash ala PS2 and EVE firsthand. If MWO resembles or becomes those in any way I will no longer be able to enjoy the game anymore and unlike those games I actually enjoy the franchise this one comes from and would therefore very much like to keep enjoying it.
And while yeah, those goals are fine and all, they're not going to last or have any real meaning. Chances are they'll be taken back by the end of the week if the various factions are balanced numbers wise and will just keep flip flopping back and forth for eternity like the Crown in PS2.

Yeah, my victories are meaningful because the planets we have taken will be reset by the end of the month! Yay! Oh wait..

Quote

And that sort of boring, stale gameplay is something that I think would be tragic to see in this game. You can still roleplay in seasons, you can still do your thing as far as that goes, it's just that in seasons you'll actually be able to say '**** yeah, we won it for Clan Wolf!' and have it mean something.

As i wrote in a thread of mine, i am playing again Tom Clancy's End War. If youy do not know it it is a RTS with a WW3 setting and a online world conquest mode very similar to Risiko (but instead of rolling dices for detroyed tanks you fight actual battles ). There are seasons, but they usually last some time, and territories are often flipping back and forth until one (too often the Russians..) manage to take enough of them or take a capital and win. It might sound boring to you, but trust me, i am having a lot of fun with it and i would have it even without resets after a season's end.

Btw, as i said, if we "win it as Clan Wolf" and then.. Lose it as Clan Wolf because the map is reset i do not feel like i won anything I want to take something and fight to keep it. Better units, not resets , should take our planets from us, quiaff?

Well, it is funny that we both seek the same meaningful goals and battles, but we have almost opposite views of what "interesting and meaningful" is

[Clownwarlord]

At first few posts from PGI it never explaned how lone wolves would partake but this one finally stated that they will be able to.