311 replies to this topic

[CyclonerM]

I am not going to reply to all the posts.. I want to do a few drops!

I, too, had the impression that LPs are not going to be a currency, but rather a score tu unlock items. Items that may be taken away if this "score" gets lower. I am fine with it. If the Army issues you an uniform, if you leave it or you become a traitor to your nation, the Army would not give you replacement uniform, weapons, vehicle paint etc.

This also means that even if you do not give a crap about LPs, you will still gain them by just dropping and accumulate them..

However, i admit that in MWO items like cockpit items may be taken with you when you leave.. I would make it this way: cockpit items and titles are kept if you switch faction, while skins and similar items are lost and you have to accumulate again a number of LPs to be able to use it.

So Logan if they choose this route you may be half-happy. I would expect, indeed, a katana and a wakizashi as cockpit items for Kurita MechWarriors..

Mercs could have less restrictions indeed, but still you would see mercs flying their own colors, not those of a House they have worked for years before.

To be honest, i do not like the possibility of having two characters on the same account. I would write the story of a single character rather than have [X] characters or, worse, [X] different mechwarriors like in War Thunder.. But that is my opinion.

@Ayrmoon: sorry, but this game is based on the BattleTech universe. As Paul says, you will play most of the time in the normal queque, where you can use all your 'Mechs. I was not around during closed beta, but i hear that since the very start of the project they said that, as Doc reminded, factions would represent meaningful choices. Be happy that they just limit IS vs Clan 'Mechs.

However, this reminds me of another point. So far, factories have not been mentioned yet i think. They should be among the rewards for taking important planets. If we had more meaningful restrictions, being able to buy/replace at lower cost (if we had R&R...) our favourite 'Mechs (manufactured by other factions) would be quite a goal for many players..

But without these restrictions?

About your last post , 'Mech restrictions are important for the game, too. First, a game designer would think that he should make factions, indeed, a meaningful choice..
Second: i am a bit bored of mixed Clan vs IS teams. Puretech will be interesting

[Pooch]

I like everything here, except for respawns. I feel that this is a gamist crutch in an otherwise perfect mech simulation. Just as there is no way to recover a jet pilot via satellite and redeploy him within a 15 minute window, I don't think it should be done here, and is a serious violation of lore. Think of it this way, if a dropship has space for 4 mechs (240 tons) they can provide space for 4 pilots (~4 tons) why would you waste space with mechs you cannot pilot concurrently? If you want to connect and insert another company of mechs halfway through a CW match, that's a really good idea. A pre match selection screen of mechs is also a good idea. Respawns not so much.

[Logan Hawke]

Pooch, on 24 October 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

I like everything here, except for respawns. I feel that this is a gamist crutch in an otherwise perfect mech simulation. Just as there is no way to recover a jet pilot via satellite and redeploy him within a 15 minute window, I don't think it should be done here, and is a serious violation of lore. Think of it this way, if a dropship has space for 4 mechs (240 tons) they can provide space for 4 pilots (~4 tons) why would you waste space with mechs you cannot pilot concurrently? If you want to connect and insert another company of mechs halfway through a CW match, that's a really good idea. A pre match selection screen of mechs is also a good idea. Respawns not so much.

The current introductory boxset for BT has a story about a guy getting blasted out of his Stalker, getting picked up and brought back to base, and then jumping in another stalker which he proceeds to get blasted out of, at which point he just sort of follows the Wolf's Dragoons on foot and watches them kill his lord.

No, it's not 15 minutes, but it is within a small enough time period to make a shortened turn around time more than feasible for a game.

CyclonerM, on 24 October 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

-snip-

It would severely depend on how they implement it, but yes there are acceptable ways to do it (again, I stress, the important part is that things you buy/earn you can use forevers, things you're gifted can be taken away) And with mercs flying our own colors, really depends on the contract, situation, etc. Normally, yes we would. But we could still obtain the colors for our use. Just not the specific unit livery and emblem. After all, as it stands we can already run all sorts of faction colors without any LPs or 'Loyalty Gifts'. I run my Protector in Liao colors for the lols, for instance

And sure, it's fine that multiple pilots wouldn't be something you'd do, but I could bet an overwhelming majority of people would be all for it. Getting to experience the whole game without breaking any immersion? Yes. Getting to use all your mechs without it being unfitting for the faction? Hell yes! That being said, it's a pipe dream.

[Ayrmoon]

CyclonerM - I appreciate you feedback. But I guess we will have to agree to disagree To be clear though, I wasn't suggesting "mixed IS and Clan drops". But rather a way for units (especially Merc Units) to be able to have one IS contract AND one Clan contract at the same time. IS mechs for IS contracts and Clan mechs Clan contracts. That way the fraction/house restriction is still followed for that contract. That would give everyone the ability to play any mech that they have in their stable for CW.

Take care and Happy Hunting,
Ayrmoon

Edited by Ayrmoon, 24 October 2014 - 02:26 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Ayrmoon, on 24 October 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

CyclonerM - I appreciate you feedback. But I guess we will have to agree to disagree To be clear though, I wasn't suggesting "mixed IS and Clan drops". But rather a way for units (especially Merc Units) to be able to have one IS contract AND one Clan contract at the same time. IS mechs for IS contracts and Clan mechs Clan contracts. That way the fraction/house restriction is still followed for that contract. That would give everyone the ability to play any mech that they have in their stable for CW.

Take care and Happy Hunting,
Ayrmoon

While It's not inconceivable for an IS faction to take on a Clan merc group. I don't think the opposite makes sense. Not for the oh so proud Clans.

[Paul Inouye]

Hey folks.. try not to bicker about things not directly related to the topic at hand. It makes it very hard to find questions for the following update. Thanks.

[Kyone Akashi]

Ossu,

After reading the presentation of the current plans, I can say I like what I see. It looks like certain concerns from the last time were addressed, especially in terms of the controversial "seasons".

I do have a question/remark/criticism regarding one example from Paul, though:

Quote

In the case of titles, let's assume the Kurita player earned the title of "Gunsho" at Rank 8.

This has me a bit worried. "Gunsho" is an enlisted rank in the DCMS and the equivalent of a Sergeant. Freshly graduated Kuritan MechWarriors begin their career at least at the rank of "Shujin" (Master Sergeant) or "Kashira" (Talon Sergeant, reserved for samurai nobility), and from this proceed directly to the officer rank of "Chu-i" (Lieutenant).
The fact that you mentioned Gunsho as a Rank 8 also sounds as if you are planning on implementing the full spectrum of Combine ranks, right down to the E1 Private grunt.





So, please reconsider. In a game set in a contemporary conflict, nobody would expect a Private to fly an F-22 fighter. Seeing this in Battletech just looks weird for someone who cares about background consistency and atmosphere. I understand that you may aim for an inflated Loyalty Rank table, but I am sure not every single Loyalty Rank must also be linked to a unique military rank. It might be possible to, for example, only offer "rank upgrades" every 4 or 5 levels, and fill the others with alternate rewards such as paintjobs, insignia, or special cockpit items?

For a realistic rank progression in the DCMS, I would propose:

• Shujin (Master Sergeant, your average lance member - everyone should start here)
  
• Chu-i (Lieutenant, leader of a lance)
  
• Tai-i (Captain, leader of a company - it should take a long time to get here)
  
• Sho-sa (Major, leader of a battalion)
  
• Tai-sa (Colonel, leader of a regiment - it should take a VERY long time to get here)

The Kashira-rank is a bit special in that it is not part of the natural progression, but rather a "+1" alternative to the Shujin. In MWO, it could either replace the Shujin in the table above (because us player characters are all special ), or you could make it available as a special reward for anyone who purchased a Phoenix pack, for participation in an event, or sell it for a small amount of MC.


With just 5 ranks (and I'm sure it would look the same for the other IS factions, not to mention Clan ranks) this does not offer much room for progression, but perhaps this is okay, as rarity goes hand in hand with increasing the perceived value of a promotion. A Rank 3 Tai-i/Captain would be met with much more respect by other players than a hypothetical Rank 8 Gunsho, because even though it's "just" the 3rd rank, he or she spent much more time to get there.

Indeed, it might not be wrong if military rank promotions were to be so special that Ranks 1 and 2 would form the majority of active players for quite some time. Perhaps you could offer transfers into canon regiments as a more suitable "grind"? There's a lot more famous regiments than officer ranks, after all. (membership in a canon regiment would obviously only be applicable to Loyalists who are not already members of a player-run unit, but then again, those have their own rank system as determined by the unit commander anyways, so the problem does not exist there)


I realize that perhaps you made that Gunsho-remark just as an off-hand comment and it was just the first rank you could think of, but as I've seen a few Kuritan units actually assigning grunt ranks to their MechWarriors, I wanted to make sure. I would really, really like if MWO would stick with the canon rank tables.

Thank you for reading the concerns of this insignificant servant of the Dragon!


-- sources: A Time of War Companion, Draconis Combine Field Manual, Handbook House Kurita

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 24 October 2014 - 04:50 PM.

[Logan Hawke]

Paul Inouye, on 24 October 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

Hey folks.. try not to bicker about things not directly related to the topic at hand. It makes it very hard to find questions for the following update. Thanks.

If you don't mind my asking, would you care to put in your thoughts on the 'loyalty points' v 'loyalty gifts' debate and what your thoughts are on that? Especially the suggested split between them and whether that's a feasible way to appease both sides?

Edited by Logan Hawke, 24 October 2014 - 04:38 PM.

[Cimarb]

Logan Hawke, on 24 October 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

It would severely depend on how they implement it, but yes there are acceptable ways to do it (again, I stress, the important part is that things you buy/earn you can use forevers, things you're gifted can be taken away) And with mercs flying our own colors, really depends on the contract, situation, etc. Normally, yes we would. But we could still obtain the colors for our use. Just not the specific unit livery and emblem. After all, as it stands we can already run all sorts of faction colors without any LPs or 'Loyalty Gifts'. I run my Protector in Liao colors for the lols, for instance

And sure, it's fine that multiple pilots wouldn't be something you'd do, but I could bet an overwhelming majority of people would be all for it. Getting to experience the whole game without breaking any immersion? Yes. Getting to use all your mechs without it being unfitting for the faction? Hell yes! That being said, it's a pipe dream.

I am against having multiple pilots per account, primarily because it lends itself to abuse of the whole system.

In most games, each of your characters is independently leveled. While you can always send your alts money and gear, the level of your main has nothing to do with the level of your alt(s). You have to level every one of them up independently. So, in WoW, you may have a Horde and an Alliance character, and fight for both sides, essentially, you have to level each of those up separately to do so.

In MWO, though, there is (currently) no player level. I know PGI talked about doing this at one point, but I have not heard anything in a while and have to assume it is not happening any time soon. Because of that, having two pilots per account means you have a way to instantly jump between factions and abuse the system.

I do think colors will be unlocked permanently, and that the restricted faction items will be titles, camo patterns, and ranks. For instance, you may be able to use Liao green, but not on the 1st McCarron Cavalry camo pattern that you unlocked. You can use the Maximillian Liao bobblehead, but not the Jiang-jun title. At least that is how I envision it working.

[Logan Hawke]

Cimarb, on 24 October 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

I am against having multiple pilots per account, primarily because it lends itself to abuse of the whole system.

In most games, each of your characters is independently leveled. While you can always send your alts money and gear, the level of your main has nothing to do with the level of your alt(s). You have to level every one of them up independently. So, in WoW, you may have a Horde and an Alliance character, and fight for both sides, essentially, you have to level each of those up separately to do so.

In MWO, though, there is (currently) no player level. I know PGI talked about doing this at one point, but I have not heard anything in a while and have to assume it is not happening any time soon. Because of that, having two pilots per account means you have a way to instantly jump between factions and abuse the system.

I do think colors will be unlocked permanently, and that the restricted faction items will be titles, camo patterns, and ranks. For instance, you may be able to use Liao green, but not on the 1st McCarron Cavalry camo pattern that you unlocked. You can use the Maximillian Liao bobblehead, but not the Jiang-jun title. At least that is how I envision it working.

I hope so. I also hope that there's a separation between the earned and 'gifted' items, you pay for one with LP, and are given the other for being loyal, you know? Otherwise it's like 'hmmm, do I want to spend these points on this stuff I'm going to lose as soon as I start playing my clan mechs in a couple months or do I want the stuff I'm going to keep?'

Also, it's nitpicking, but at least for a while (I'm fairly certain it's still going) WoW was selling fresh level 80 characters as long as you already had one.

[Corralis]

Paul Inouye, on 24 October 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

Hey folks.. try not to bicker about things not directly related to the topic at hand. It makes it very hard to find questions for the following update. Thanks.

OK Paul, here's a question for your next update. Why as a Merc Corp member fighting for the IS (not my call) can I not bring Clan Mech's into battle in Community Warfare?

Would a house faction ever specify in a Merc contract that 'You may not bring that totally awesome Clan Tech into battle as we don't actually want you to win'. I don't think so, do you?

Do you think there should ever be people who argue that 'If you want to play Clan mech's then join a Clan faction'. Yea I'll just leave behind all my friends that I have been playing the game with for over a year just to be able to pilot Clan Mech's.

I have spent $360 on Clan Mech's and through no fault of my own I will not be allowed to pilot them.

And I really don't want to hear anyone saying 'If you wanna pilot Clan Mech's then go play the solo queue'. No! I've been waiting for Community Warfare and Clan content since way back in Closed Beta and to find out that I can't enjoy that the way I would like to is a bit of a slap in the face if I'm being honest.

[Kyone Akashi]

Corralis, on 24 October 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

No! I've been waiting for Community Warfare and Clan content since way back in Closed Beta and to find out that I can't enjoy that the way I would like to is a bit of a slap in the face if I'm being honest.

Why do you assume that your personal preferences should take precedence over anyone elses?

The background reason for none of the Inner Sphere parties - including the various mercenary outfits - fielding Clan 'mechs is because in this era they do not have access to them, as Clan tech is something entirely new and alien to them. The proposed plan is already a compromise of sorts as it would allow you to play CW with your Clan 'mechs in one month, and CW with IS friends in the next. Additionally, there is the option of simply skipping on CW if you really do feel you have to "mix and match". Do you really need to take the entire arm? There is your fault.

When you spent those $360 on Clan 'mechs, what exactly made you assume they weren't meant for the Clans?

[MechaBattler]

Corralis, on 24 October 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

OK Paul, here's a question for your next update. Why as a Merc Corp member fighting for the IS (not my call) can I not bring Clan Mech's into battle in Community Warfare?

Would a house faction ever specify in a Merc contract that 'You may not bring that totally awesome Clan Tech into battle as we don't actually want you to win'. I don't think so, do you?

Do you think there should ever be people who argue that 'If you want to play Clan mech's then join a Clan faction'. Yea I'll just leave behind all my friends that I have been playing the game with for over a year just to be able to pilot Clan Mech's.

I have spent $360 on Clan Mech's and through no fault of my own I will not be allowed to pilot them.

And I really don't want to hear anyone saying 'If you wanna pilot Clan Mech's then go play the solo queue'. No! I've been waiting for Community Warfare and Clan content since way back in Closed Beta and to find out that I can't enjoy that the way I would like to is a bit of a slap in the face if I'm being honest.

If you spent $360 bucks on Clan mechs. Then why not play as Clan? Let's not completely negate any semblance of IS fighting the Clan invasion. Just because you spent money.

Did anyone else that bought the "Clan" packs, do so under the impression they would get to use them as IS forces?

[Sam Slade]

Gallowglas, on 23 October 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

Any revised/updated/expanded thoughts on how canon merc unit affiliation might work in the current system?

There is a REALLY easy way to do this... create an 'Outreach' pool in matchmaker and a 'Stranta' pool in matchmaker: Lone Wolves and unaffiliated or unitless Mercs go in the Outreach pool, Daggerstars go in the Stranta pool.

When a CW drop happens the MM draws from both pools to plug gaps in games and assigns the random Outreach/Stranta Lance the name of either a canon merc unit(Eridani Light Horse, Grey Death Legion, McCarrons Armored Cavelry, etc...) or the name of a famous lore cluster/galays(or Solo-ahama..hur hur).

Means more games and more inclusion of canon... win

Corralis, on 24 October 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

OK Paul, here's a question for your next update. Why as a Merc Corp member fighting for the IS (not my call) can I not bring Clan Mech's into battle in Community Warfare?

Would a house faction ever specify in a Merc contract that 'You may not bring that totally awesome Clan Tech into battle as we don't actually want you to win'. I don't think so, do you?

Do you think there should ever be people who argue that 'If you want to play Clan mech's then join a Clan faction'. Yea I'll just leave behind all my friends that I have been playing the game with for over a year just to be able to pilot Clan Mech's.

I have spent $360 on Clan Mech's and through no fault of my own I will not be allowed to pilot them.

And I really don't want to hear anyone saying 'If you wanna pilot Clan Mech's then go play the solo queue'. No! I've been waiting for Community Warfare and Clan content since way back in Closed Beta and to find out that I can't enjoy that the way I would like to is a bit of a slap in the face if I'm being honest.</p>

FIX: An IS persona and a Clan persona available for everyone... more matchmaker fodder, more games, more spending, more happy customers.... win.

Many of us WANT TO BUY CLAN AND IS PACKS!!! Give us a way to rationalise it! I for example am so close to upgrading to a Man O' War pack... I DON'T like the Man O' War... but drop decks... I want to buy the new IS pack... but will I use it?

Clan War will be THE WHOLE GAME for the BT fans... give us what we want so we can spend more money... I feel like I'm taking crazy pills ! How do you not see the increase in revenue here!!!

Edited by Sam Slade, 24 October 2014 - 08:10 PM.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

While I can see the role-playing reasons for limiting one account to one faction for CW, Sam Slade does bring a pretty convincing argument ... some of us want to play everything.

I'm content to follow the 228th IBR's leadership choices in CW, whether that means invading the Inner Sphere in Clan Tech or repelling that invasion in IS tech. I can use my other 'mechs in public queues, private lobbies, etc.

However, I can see how others would not be, particularly when they are among those of us who have bought pretty much every Top Tier package so far, Clan and IS.

One possible work-around that I can see, create an Alt Account, create a Unit aligned to Clan (or IS, if your primary unit is Clan), and move your account back and forth between the two units.

[p4r4g0n]

Idea: One time account split to segregate Clan and IS mechs into 2 separate accounts (or a player designated combination thereof e.g. 4 Clan 4 IS mechs per account)

Lots of resources needed to make it work and lots of details to iron out but yeah, this is what happens when things deviate from initial plans and you start flying by the seat of your pants.

Just a thought.

[Kyone Akashi]

Hai, I don't think there actually is a roleplaying reason to limit an account to a single faction - they would just have to invest the necessary resources to allow multiple pilots on the same account, preferably with a shared inventory when it comes to purchased paintjobs and colors - like with Planetside - but keeping 'mechs on a per-character basis (and thus enforcing faction limitations).

The exclusiveness can already be circumvented by creating alt accounts, so technically, there is no good argument not to accept this and turn it into a feature.

But this would mean a lot of additional work for the interface, and probably the forum as well (as a player may have multiple personas), which is probably the main reason for why they are shying back from it. The question thus would be whether the result would be worth the investment.

Edited by Kyone Akashi, 24 October 2014 - 08:53 PM.

[Sam Slade]

Kyone Akashi, on 24 October 2014 - 08:52 PM, said:

But this would mean a lot of additional work for the interface, and probably the forum as well (as a player may have multiple personas), which is probably the main reason for why they are shying back from it. The question thus would be whether the result would be worth the investment.

This is the key to it really... but no need more multiname... perhaps just add ranks in Clan and IS?

[Corralis]

Kyone Akashi, on 24 October 2014 - 06:57 PM, said:

Why do you assume that your personal preferences should take precedence over anyone elses?

The background reason for none of the Inner Sphere parties - including the various mercenary outfits - fielding Clan 'mechs is because in this era they do not have access to them, as Clan tech is something entirely new and alien to them. The proposed plan is already a compromise of sorts as it would allow you to play CW with your Clan 'mechs in one month, and CW with IS friends in the next. Additionally, there is the option of simply skipping on CW if you really do feel you have to "mix and match". Do you really need to take the entire arm? There is your fault.

When you spent those $360 on Clan 'mechs, what exactly made you assume they weren't meant for the Clans?

Why do you assume that your personal preferences should take precedence over anyone elses? Well I don't think I am. Are you telling me that there are people who do not want to be allowed to use their Clan mech's (if they own them) during CW if they are fighting for the IS factions? Well the answer I would give those people would be, don't use them. It's simple but for the people who do want to use their Clan Mech's, why should they be blocked from doing so?

There is the option of simply skipping on CW if you really do feel you have to "mix and match". Do you really need to take the entire arm? There is your fault. Why would I want to skip CW, as I mentioned in my post I have been waiting for both CW and Clan Tech since the game was in closed beta. Should I only be allowed to play the same boring game modes I've been playing for 2 years while everyone else has fun?

When you spent those $360 on Clan 'mechs, what exactly made you assume they weren't meant for the Clans? Well quite simply because there was never any mention before I bought them that Clan tech would be limited during CW. If someone had told me then maybe I would have decided against buying them knowing that my guild was going to be fighting for the IS. I couldn't care less about the lore behind the game, I bought Clan Mech's because (imo) they look far cooler than anything the IS forces have.

[Corralis]

MechaBattler, on 24 October 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

If you spent $360 bucks on Clan mechs. Then why not play as Clan? Let's not completely negate any semblance of IS fighting the Clan invasion. Just because you spent money.

Did anyone else that bought the "Clan" packs, do so under the impression they would get to use them as IS forces?

OK so as I have also said, I am part of a very large gaming group that I have been a member of for over a year now. It has been decided by the higher ranking members of the community that we will be fighting for the IS. I had no choice in that decision. So what do you propose I should do? Leave? Say goodbye to a lot of friends I have made over my time with the group. That's not very practical really is it? I'm not the only person in my group that has bought Clan Mech's but no one was told prior to their purchase that we would be locked out of using them during CW.