311 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

Corralis, on 24 October 2014 - 10:14 PM, said:

OK so as I have also said, I am part of a very large gaming group that I have been a member of for over a year now. It has been decided by the higher ranking members of the community that we will be fighting for the IS. I had no choice in that decision. So what do you propose I should do? Leave? Say goodbye to a lot of friends I have made over my time with the group. That's not very practical really is it? I'm not the only person in my group that has bought Clan Mech's but no one was told prior to their purchase that we would be locked out of using them during CW.

You can still walk a warderns path

[Corralis]

BLOOD WOLF, on 24 October 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

You can still walk a warderns path

What?

[BLOOD WOLF]

Corralis, on 24 October 2014 - 10:19 PM, said:

What?

Join a clan.

[Corralis]

BLOOD WOLF, on 24 October 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

Join a clan.

I refer you to my previous post.

[Wyzak]

There is no easy way to fix this. The fix that is most respectful to the lore and to the playerbase (who has already spent the money on mechs from both factions) is to allow an account to contain an IS pilot and a Clan pilot - because at this point in the timeline (essentially pre-invasion) it is not acceptable for IS players to pilot Clan tech. That being said, I think that when dropping in a solo or public group queue, that a player should not have to switch pilots to be able to access all the mechs. So there are two layers of complexity being proposed/bandied - different mechbays in public and CW, and possibly a new pilot login system that allows you to switch between being a clan warrior and an inner sphere warrior of some sort.

PS EDIT Different mechbays are unwieldy and wasteful of resources. Better to just have the launch button do a check if the mech you selected is eligible for the CW game you are entering, and if not, issue a buzzer noise like it does now when you have an invalid build.

Edited by Wyzak, 24 October 2014 - 10:55 PM.

[Sam Slade]

Wyzak, on 24 October 2014 - 10:51 PM, said:

PS EDIT Different mechbays are unwieldy and wasteful of resources. Better to just have the launch button do a check if the mech you selected is eligible for the CW game you are entering, and if not, issue a buzzer noise like it does now when you have an invalid build.

Yes, it is that easy.

[KuroNyra]

Corralis, on 24 October 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:

I refer you to my previous post.

The "What" post?


Beside, it sound and IS logical that IS vs Clan are only IS vs Clan Mech and NO MIX.

At the start, it was the case and even if a few group managed to get some clan technology and mech. It wasn't the case of the whole Inner Sphere who still used in majority.

Even during the battle on Huntress.

Ariana Winston used a Cyclops.

Some other did use some clan mech (one used a Daishi, lets not talk about Victor Steiner-Davion who used his well know Prometheus. But everybody is not First Prince Quiaff?)


The average warrior (us) should for at least a moment stick to IS mech for IS warrior, and Clan Mech for Clan Warrior.

Edited by KuroNyra, 25 October 2014 - 02:57 AM.

[Corralis]

KuroNyra, on 25 October 2014 - 02:54 AM, said:

The "What" post?


Beside, it sound and IS logical that IS vs Clan are only IS vs Clan Mech and NO MIX.

At the start, it was the case and even if a few group managed to get some clan technology and mech. It wasn't the case of the whole Inner Sphere who still used in majority.

Even during the battle on Huntress.

Ariana Winston used a Cyclops.

Some other did use some clan mech (one used a Daishi, lets not talk about Victor Steiner-Davion who used his well know Prometheus. But everybody is not First Prince Quiaff?)


The average warrior (us) should for at least a moment stick to IS mech for IS warrior, and Clan Mech for Clan Warrior.

OK well this is what we were told about CW originally. There would be two styles of play, Faction play and Merc Unit play. In Faction play you had to align yourself to a specific faction (Davion, Kurita or even a Clan unit) and you had to use either IS or Clan Mech's depending on who you were fighting for, I believe you could use any Mech you wanted although you could get discounts off certain Mech's depending on the factories your faction owned. The second was Merc Corp play where you just accepted contracts from Faction's and fought on their behalf. There was no mention of having certain Mech's blocked. So what's wrong with having a system like that?

Just out of interest, do you really want IS vs Clan (or IS vs IS) only for the next year or so just so we can keep some semblance of the lore going?

I can't be the only person that would like to use their shiny Clan Mech's during Community Warfare and I see no logical reason why people shouldn't be allowed to pilot whatever the hell they want.

[AntleredCormorant]

Can't believe the amount of angst here.

If you don't want to pick a side in the Clan vs IS battle, simply continue playing the game as it is now.

[AntleredCormorant]

Corralis, on 25 October 2014 - 04:41 AM, said:

I can't be the only person that would like to use their shiny Clan Mech's during Community Warfare and I see no logical reason why people shouldn't be allowed to pilot whatever the hell they want.

Then play on the Clan side. Simple enough. People can "pilot whatever the hell they want" in the current game modes.

Community Warfare, however, represents the battle between factions. As such, participation requires choosing one of those factions. Naturally that's going to come with certain plusses and minuses, depending on which faction you choose.

[Corralis]

AntleredCormorant, on 25 October 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

Then play on the Clan side. Simple enough. People can "pilot whatever the hell they want" in the current game modes.

Community Warfare, however, represents the battle between factions. As such, participation requires choosing one of those factions. Naturally that's going to come with certain plusses and minuses, depending on which faction you choose.

AntleredCormorant, on 25 October 2014 - 04:46 AM, said:

Can't believe the amount of angst here.

If you don't want to pick a side in the Clan vs IS battle, simply continue playing the game as it is now.

Ahh read my posts on page 11, I'm not gonna keep repeating myself.

[AntleredCormorant]

Corralis, on 25 October 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

Ahh read my posts on page 11, I'm not gonna keep repeating myself.

I have, but I read them again & stand by my previous statements. The CW game mode is Clan vs. IS; of course you are going to have to pick Clan or IS.

Your suggestion re: a separate Merc faction able to use either tech sounds reasonable enough, but would effectively create a loophole where the IS forces could all run Clan mechs. There would have to be other penalties for Merc factions to make this less attractive, & not just cosmetic ones. As it stands, you'll be able to take contracts with whichever side you like. Yes, there's a penalty to LP, but if you're going to play both sides against the other as a mercenary "Loyalty" isn't much of a concern.

As for your gaming group declaring for IS - I'm sympathetic, but you can't reasonably expect the game itself to change to accomodate you.

[Corralis]

AntleredCormorant, on 25 October 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

I have, but I read them again & stand by my previous statements. The CW game mode is Clan vs. IS; of course you are going to have to pick Clan or IS.

Your suggestion re: a separate Merc faction able to use either tech sounds reasonable enough, but would effectively create a loophole where the IS forces could all run Clan mechs. There would have to be other penalties for Merc factions to make this less attractive, & not just cosmetic ones. As it stands, you'll be able to take contracts with whichever side you like. Yes, there's a penalty to LP, but if you're going to play both sides against the other as a mercenary "Loyalty" isn't much of a concern.

As for your gaming group declaring for IS - I'm sympathetic, but you can't reasonably expect the game itself to change to accomodate you.

Well actually I can, Free2Play games require the input of the community to expand and grow. I am voicing my opinion in the hope of being allowed to use my Clan Mech's during CW. If PGI decided not to listen to me then that's fine but it's not a reason to stay quiet and ignore a potential issue is it?

[AntleredCormorant]

Corralis, on 25 October 2014 - 05:37 AM, said:

Well actually I can, Free2Play games require the input of the community to expand and grow. I am voicing my opinion in the hope of being allowed to use my Clan Mech's during CW. If PGI decided not to listen to me then that's fine but it's not a reason to stay quiet and ignore a potential issue is it?

Fair enough;but you are very much allowed to use your Clan mechs during CW - if you are fighting for the Clans.

You touch on a larger issue here IMO, in that everyone at this point has anticipated the launch of CW for a good while and therefore everyone has their own individual ideas of what it will/should be.

[Jakob Knight]

Quote

I don't like this result. Having matches/planets determined by forfeitures is not productive... like in league play. Why not just increase the Assault window or reduce the token rate (as in it isn't a full token, maybe like a half token)?

Planet takeovers will not occur based solely on forfeitures. This situation should be a very rare occurrence and is part of the reason we have CW time windows. The number of planets up for attack/defend also help remedy this situation. We will be starting with a select few planets in each Faction space available for attack/defend. If we have an overwhelming number of players partaking in CW, we will both increase the time windows and the number of planets up for contest.

I would highly recommend that you add a new restriction preventing new players (those who have not finished their first 25 cadet matches) from participating. This will prevent much rage from competitive teams.

This is something we can discuss and has been mentioned. I'll fill everyone in if anything comes of this. We do think it would not be ideal for a brand new player to drop into CW.

These questions bring up a point I think others have also raised, but I think bears highlighting.

CW is -NOT- tourney play. It is -NOT- Competitive Play. It is -NOT- an E-sport.

CW is War.

Too many players see CW as an elaborate tournament system, where everything has to be set up for 'fairness' and 'competitiveness' and 'fun'. This is not what CW is supposed to be. CW is supposed to be the 'hardcore RP' mode, where you have to fight the war that is the actual game of Mechwarrior, not the ego-stroking, leaderboard-driven environment of Competitive play.

If a Faction decides not to defend a planet, or brings fewer forces to a battle, then that planet falls. End of story. That faction failed because they decided other targets needed more attention at that time, or they didn't have the numbers the other side did. That is the reality of war. A forfeiture is a de-facto decision not to contest an area on a planet, and the defender or attacker must suffer the consequences of allowing the other side greater control over that planet. There are already quite a few artificial gimmicks planned for CW that relieve the need to think for players (the ability to instantly travel to any contested planet without cause to be pre-positioned there, the Dropship mechanic to relieve players of the need to actually try and be a long-term combatant and survive, ect.), so if no one can even be bothered to oppose control of an area.....well, all I can say is if you think it is bad that planets will fall if not defended properly, you are thinking like an e-sports player and need to learn about war.

Competitive teams have no place in CW beyond that of any other military unit fighting for a Faction, and they are no more important than the new player who comes into MWO as a green recruit. All fight and struggle on the battlefield, and the results are what they are. There are plenty of cases of rookies being fostered onto veteran combat units because the situation demanded it, and that is also war. If the Competitive teams fail to field a full Combat Team (12 players), then they have to accept they may have to deal with clueless new fighters who don't know to get out of the rain. If not, they will get the results of refusing to adapt to a changed combat situation.

If you don't want hardcore RP combat, then simply don't enter CW. It isn't for sports players, and it isn't for those who can't deal with the reality of mech warfare outside the safe, controlled setups of a Solaris VII arena. Normal play is still there for you.

My two cents.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 25 October 2014 - 06:26 AM.

[Kyone Akashi]

Corralis, on 24 October 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

Well I don't think I am. Are you telling me that there are people who do not want to be allowed to use their Clan mech's (if they own them) during CW if they are fighting for the IS factions? Well the answer I would give those people would be, don't use them.

There could also be people who are hoping for battles representative of what actually happened in the Battletech setting in this era. Like me.
And yes, that means no Clan 'mechs for random IS pilots. So our preferences here are in conflict, and there is nothing you could do to alleviate my concerns if you insist on pushing yours.

Corralis, on 24 October 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

Why would I want to skip CW, as I mentioned in my post I have been waiting for both CW and Clan Tech since the game was in closed beta. Should I only be allowed to play the same boring game modes I've been playing for 2 years while everyone else has fun?

You don't "want" to, no. That is exactly what I've been pointing out as your problem here. You want everything at the same time and are unwilling to even use the compromise suggested in Paul's post. I believe the gaijin call this "getting the cake and eating it too".

Corralis, on 24 October 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

Well quite simply because there was never any mention before I bought them that Clan tech would be limited during CW.

So this is a misunderstanding based on you having no knowledge of the Battletech universe, and MWO being your first contact with this setting? Alright, in that case I can at least understand your frustration - PGI could have certainly made it a bit clearer back then, rather than assuming that every player was either a veteran or willing to read up on the background on external sources.

[Corralis]

AntleredCormorant, on 25 October 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

Fair enough;but you are very much allowed to use your Clan mechs during CW - if you are fighting for the Clans.

You touch on a larger issue here IMO, in that everyone at this point has anticipated the launch of CW for a good while and therefore everyone has their own individual ideas of what it will/should be.

Well I only based my opinion of CW on the information I was told prior to purchasing Clan mech's was some thing like the paragraph I wrote in a previous post, I'll quote it again below.

'OK well this is what we were told about CW originally. There would be two styles of play, Faction play and Merc Unit play. In Faction play you had to align yourself to a specific faction (Davion, Kurita or even a Clan unit) and you had to use either IS or Clan Mech's depending on who you were fighting for, I believe you could use any Mech you wanted although you could get discounts off certain Mech's depending on the factories your faction owned. The second was Merc Corp play where you just accepted contracts from Faction's and fought on their behalf. There was no mention of having certain Mech's blocked. So what's wrong with having a system like that?'

That was what we were told, two separate game modes, Faction Warfare and Merc Corp Warfare. One of which had restrictions on the Mech's you could use and the other did not, that to me is a fair system as it gives everyone the option of how they want to play the game. Now we are being told that everyone must play Faction mode only. To me that is a fundamental shift in design and one I think is wrong and not very fair to the players who have spent a great deal of money in supporting this game.

[Corralis]

Kyone Akashi, on 25 October 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

There could also be people who are hoping for battles representative of what actually happened in the Battletech setting in this era. Like me.
And yes, that means no Clan 'mechs for random IS pilots. So our preferences here are in conflict, and there is nothing you could do to alleviate my concerns if you insist on pushing yours.

You don't "want" to, no. That is exactly what I've been pointing out as your problem here. You want everything at the same time and are unwilling to even use the compromise suggested in Paul's post. I believe the gaijin call this "getting the cake and eating it too".

So this is a misunderstanding based on you having no knowledge of the Battletech universe, and MWO being your first contact with this setting? Alright, in that case I can at least understand your frustration - PGI could have certainly made it a bit clearer back then, rather than assuming that every player was either a veteran or willing to read up on the background on external sources.

How very condescending of you. So let me get this straight, you don't want to see random players in Clan Mech's during CW if they are fighting for the IS side? Well I don't think it's right for you to decide how other players have fun in this game. That is solely up to the developer.

Oh and just so you know, I have a lot of knowledge of the Battletech universe but this is not a matter of lore, this is a matter of forcing players to play a game a certain way and maybe there are some people out there that don't want that restriction being placed on them (like me for example).

[DLS]

Too much to read for someone late to reading all the updates etc so hopefully someone can answer my question ... Early on in the discussion about CW and Mercs/unit it was mentioned you would need 12 (iirc) tokens at a cost of 18.8 Million CBills to purchase your dropships. Now I saw there will be varying rewards/costs for CW drops so I am curious will merc units still need to come up with that 225 Million CBills ? Was this already discussed somewhere and I missed it? Please point me in that direction if so.

Thank you

[Corralis]

DLS, on 25 October 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

Too much to read for someone late to reading all the updates etc so hopefully someone can answer my question ... Early on in the discussion about CW and Mercs/unit it was mentioned you would need 12 (iirc) tokens at a cost of 18.8 Million CBills to purchase your dropships. Now I saw there will be varying rewards/costs for CW drops so I am curious will merc units still need to come up with that 225 Million CBills ? Was this already discussed somewhere and I missed it? Please point me in that direction if so.

Thank you

For now they appear to have cancelled that requirement but it may still come in in a later version of CW, just not straight away. Also I thought it was 10 people paying 18 million each for the dropship.