156 replies to this topic

[Mr Beefy]

CSHubert, on 24 October 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

During closed beta PGI tested these scenarios with "fat days" and "starving days". My guess is they are starving us ! They know this is bad and they will enventually level it out again, but they want to squeese the cheese for now. This is NOT about role warfare (just see the rolling SOLO tournament). This is about getting people to try Premium time and Hero chassis. But even with that, its starvation. So when those players starts to leave (thats me) they will make a sort of roll back

If what you are saying is true..... this is not the way to motivate team play, and will only further the spiral of exploiters that only care about C-bill earnings, XP and further promote a toxic player base of haves, and have nots. It will also kill off any PR and positive change we have seen this year. While it may seem like the way to swing the bottom line in their favor, it will not have a positive effect. The only way it will have the people buy more out come is if the players fail to see it for what it is, and bicker and argue about it, and don't call a spade a spade and stand together. Hmmmmm........ what was we talking about again?

I am not wanting to believe this to be true given the strides they have taken in the last year, and the split from IGP, seems things are starting to swing back to the right direction. I have even considered dropping $80 on the IS pack coming up, to show some more support to PGI, it will be the first pack I have bought and the most I have ever spent on a AAA title in my entire life.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 24 October 2014 - 10:18 AM.

[divinedisclaimer]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 24 October 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

What will you do when all the 'bads' (apparently) stop playing because getting 50k per match

I'll stop losing games because you brought 100 tons to the match and left it sitting behind a wall out of engagement?

Seriously people, you have to spectacularly bad to hit numbers that low. All you have to do to earn the rewards is contribute, not be the rising star. That means stepping out, taking hits, dealing damage, and dying. As long as somebody gets the kill you'll still get the c-bills.

Most of these very one-sided games are occurring because many of you are refusing to expose yourselves, resulting in an entire-team loss-by-pick where one guys gets sniped off at a time until you're all dead without having even threatened the enemy team.

Edited by divinedisclaimer, 24 October 2014 - 10:22 AM.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

divinedisclaimer, on 24 October 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

I'll stop losing games because you brought 100 tons to the match and left it sitting behind a wall out of engagement?

You know I only have the one free hundred tonner and almost never use it, man.

[Mr Beefy]

divinedisclaimer, on 24 October 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

I'll stop losing games because you brought 100 tons to the match and left it sitting behind a wall out of engagement?

So you loosing is 100% based on one bad assault mech pilot dropping on your team? Hmmmmm this reply and outlook will fix everything, please....continue

[divinedisclaimer]

Mr Beefy, on 24 October 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

So you loosing is 100% based on one bad assault mech pilot dropping on your team? Hmmmmm this reply and outlook will fix everything, please....continue

Pretty much anything I do including suicide showers me in c-bills. Other than actually dying without contributing a single assist I get decent rewards every time.

What this thread tells me is that you aren't contributing anything to your team.

Yes, it's very pivotal when the heaviest mechs refuse to play ball. It sets the tone for the entire team, and then you get picked off.

You bring armor, use it.

Edited by divinedisclaimer, 24 October 2014 - 10:29 AM.

[Mr Beefy]

divinedisclaimer, on 24 October 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

Pretty much anything I do including suicide showers me in c-bills. Other than actually dying without contributing a single assist I get decent rewards every time.

What this thread tells me is that you aren't contributing anything to your team.

Yes, it's very pivotal when the heaviest mechs refuse to play ball. It sets the tone for the entire team, and then you get picked off.

You bring armor, use it.

Ok.... so in this match we all did contribute to the team.... none of us was standing around, and doing nothing...... so this is what you call being showered with rewards...


Here are my earn results.....








This was last night....and after the hotfix BTW. What hope does a noob have of advancing up if a fairly well played match like this one, where the entire team played like a team and won has if this is the low pay out amount.....raise this by 30% and we now have a very rewarding and fair pay out for new players and veterans alike. Many of you keep spitting out the same old, same old.... its ok man, the sky will not fall if they raise it all by 30% We might just start seeing some real team players in 80% in solo drops, instead of only 20% that we have had now for the last year and a half.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 24 October 2014 - 10:39 AM.

[Prezimonto]

DarthRevis, on 24 October 2014 - 05:51 AM, said:

I'm assuming he doesn't want to use MC on something he can buy with C-Bills....Four hours to only make 350k though is pretty absurd....you either are just not doing anything at all, Like hiding in a corner, or you are just unskilled at this game. There is not reason you cant make 100,000 a match for just following the team around and shooting what they shoot.

Sounds a little exaggerated to me....

I've been making 350k in an average of about 4 matches... which with some fiddling with mechs is about an hour of play for me. This is actually up from about 250k to 300k under the old rewards system for 4 matches for me.

[CSHubert]

Mr Beefy, on 24 October 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

If what you are saying is true..... this is not the way to motivate team play, and will only further the spiral of exploiters that only care about C-bill earnings, XP and further promote a toxic player base of haves, and have nots. It will also kill off any PR and positive change we have seen this year. While it may seem like the way to swing the bottom line in their favor, it will not have a positive effect. The only way it will have the people buy more out come is if the players fail to see it for what it is, and bicker and argue about it, and don't call a spade a spade and stand together. Hmmmmm........ what was we talking about again?

I am not wanting to believe this to be true given the strides they have taken in the last year, and the split from IGP, seems things are starting to swing back to the right direction. I have even considered dropping $80 on the IS pack coming up, to show some more support to PGI, it will be the first pack I have bought and the most I have ever spent on a AAA title in my entire life.

I totally get you, Mr. Beefy. But still: look at the amount of things on sale and the "pay us now!" thats going on. Combine that with a good starvation and you might see it like I do. I too think the break with IGP was a good thing, but this smells of desperate money grab. Not saying they do it of ill will and Ill bet theyll set it right sometime soon.

[Mr Beefy]

CSHubert, on 24 October 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

I totally get you, Mr. Beefy. But still: look at the amount of things on sale and the "pay us now!" thats going on. Combine that with a good starvation and you might see it like I do. I too think the break with IGP was a good thing, but this smells of desperate money grab. Not saying they do it of ill will and Ill bet theyll set it right sometime soon.

Just came out of a match a few mins. ago, very similar damage done, same kills, same assist, poor earnings story at only 133K and 800xp. There really is only one way to fix this, and that is a 30% hike in pay out for all. That will show much good and faith in us, and give them some breathing room making earnings not the main concern by most players. The argument here isn't that the new system sucks, or pays to low.... The pay scale has always been to low. It is cute how all the Die hard say, we had to do it, so make all the new guys suffer too, but I don't want them to suffer, but what I just said really means I do want them to..... only confirms just how week and broken the pay scale has always been since the very first major hit on earnings dropped back in the start of the game.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 24 October 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[Livewyr]

Here is a question:

If I am subject to the same rewards system as everyone else, why am I earning 100-170k per match (Subtotal) and they are earning in the 30s?

[Brody319]

Livewyr, on 24 October 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

Here is a question:

If I am subject to the same rewards system as everyone else, why am I earning 100-170k per match (Subtotal) and they are earning in the 30s?

The number of rewards they get. I've never gotten into the 300K but I've gotten 270K.
Getting solo kills nets you the most cash, especially if you can get brawler, tag, and narc kill. However narc takes a missile slot so most are more willing to just give up an energy weapon for tag.
Stay near your team, capture bases, try to get most damage and kills, and keep your tag focused on the enemy.

[Mr Beefy]

Livewyr, on 24 October 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

Here is a question:

If I am subject to the same rewards system as everyone else, why am I earning 100-170k per match (Subtotal) and they are earning in the 30s?

yet another reply that really doesn't mean anything, and we all know the answer.

Does not address the core issues here.

[Revis Volek]

Mr Beefy, on 24 October 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

Darth.... you tell one not to put words in your mouth... but than tell me that people shouldn't get a mech(s) after only three matches...... which is simply not what any of us have said, or implied. See the Irony?
There is nothing wrong with any of us who have made a choice playing this game, putting so much time into it if that is how we choose to spend our time to support a game we love and want to grow into what PGI pitched us. There is also nothing wrong when looking into the amount of time it takes for new and veteran players alike, to be honest about it, and reasonably say, the grind is very painful as it stands for both alike. The only thing that ease's it up a little, is guys like us have most of the stuff to play well, we have found out the mechs that we do well in, and have some of the core modules needed to enhance our game play even further.

If it took us 7 months to do this, and you I am guessing got to play back when earnings where way more than now, I wasn't so lucky, I have no problems with the flood gates being opened just a bit to see a new player coming into this game take only 4 months to get the same grinding it out. That is much more reasonable, and should be given serious consideration by PGI to put into effect. Even at that rate, the new players are gonna still have a hard time, it will be a grind either way, but one they might be willing to stick with and become the type of team players that really contribute to the team play in a given game mode and the real objectives of that game mode instead of trying to exploit the system for C-bills and XP. Some many problems will correct them selves out in game play.... it really would be win win for all.


Even as a player that has been around, with 45 mastered mechs, and only 15 kept, the grind is very painful, and I am not even close to having some of the mechs I would like to buy, let alone all the modules it will take to make them the most effective. They could increase the earnings back up 30%, and I believe I could play 5 days a week, at 4-8 hours a day for 6 months straight and I still would not be able to get every mech I want, all the modules for every one. It just wouldn't happen, even if I buy PT the entire time. There is no danger of the market crashing, the sky will not fall on us all if it happens.

I dont think the grind is painful or ever was...it has always been fun and lucrative for me even with out PT running. I also told you that I make more now on avg then i used to with the old system. So that is a moot argument and i will omit it all for sake or not being another long winded post...

But you think its ok to all of a sudden "open the flood gates" and allow new players to have the same stable as myself in half the time? how is that fair to me? or anyone who has put that work in already...hows is it even fair to you? Don't take this wrong i am not "mad bro" or anything just generally curious as to why you think you should be able to acquire what i have in half the time. It will not influx more players....the game mechanics and lack of tutorials are still a determining factor for most new players i have seen and introduced to the game. But coupled with a lack of funds wont help this i agree with you. But giving these players the mechs they want faster doesn't do anything but put PGI outta funds and make it so we dont have to play the game as much. Statistically the more you play the game the better the chances are of making micro transactions and that is why the grind is the way it it.

Yes i did play most of this when earning were DIFFERENT but it was never any better for me, like i said before i actually make MORE money now per drop then i did before the changes. I think the rewards have just shown us that one, lots of peoples play styles actually do not benefit there team like they previously thought. Two, Assaults need help with the new rewards system just as Light and mediums did with the old one, we seemed to have flip flopped.

Do we have any other games we can compare our "economy" (if you want to call it that) too and see if it is in fact that far out of line with the prices in the store and for mechs?

[Mr Beefy]

DarthRevis, on 24 October 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

I dont think the grind is painful or ever was...it has always been fun and lucrative for me even with out PT running. I also told you that I make more now on avg then i used to with the old system. So that is a moot argument and i will omit it all for sake or not being another long winded post...

But you think its ok to all of a sudden "open the flood gates" and allow new players to have the same stable as myself in half the time? how is that fair to me? or anyone who has put that work in already...hows is it even fair to you? Don't take this wrong i am not "mad bro" or anything just generally curious as to why you think you should be able to acquire what i have in half the time. It will not influx more players....the game mechanics and lack of tutorials are still a determining factor for most new players i have seen and introduced to the game. But coupled with a lack of funds wont help this i agree with you. But giving these players the mechs they want faster doesn't do anything but put PGI outta funds and make it so we dont have to play the game as much. Statistically the more you play the game the better the chances are of making micro transactions and that is why the grind is the way it it.

Yes i did play most of this when earning were DIFFERENT but it was never any better for me, like i said before i actually make MORE money now per drop then i did before the changes. I think the rewards have just shown us that one, lots of peoples play styles actually do not benefit there team like they previously thought. Two, Assaults need help with the new rewards system just as Light and mediums did with the old one, we seemed to have flip flopped.

Do we have any other games we can compare our "economy" (if you want to call it that) too and see if it is in fact that far out of line with the prices in the store and for mechs?

So now we switch back to if PGI will loosen the flood gates back, like you and many players got to experience, It will for sure not get any new players in, let alone help to keep them in and wanting to spend money because they don't feel they are playing such a money grab kinda game because of the painful grind?

Do I think its fair if they open the gates back up to the levels before to us? I really could care less if they do, we already have what we have, and if anything it will allow us to get new mechs and try things we haven't before. New stuff is coming out all the time, there will be plenty left to grind for, and just as much to buy outright to get the early access to. You might not think, or given your argument now want to admit the pay scale is 30% low, but many veteran and new players alike have always thought it was questionable.

You believe it won't bring new players, I believe it will... and that is a chance for more micro transactions in a player base that welcomes new players because everyone isn't so butt hurt about the littlest of change PGI makes. Even if it didn't bring in a vast crowd of new players, if people get more for the grind, they will need mech bays..... those are not the cheapest to buy unless they are on sale given you need three to master a chassis out. To try and say they will go bankrupt over it, is just either holding on to what you think isn't fair, even though you got to play for a time with payouts much higher, even if you didn't make as much, doesn't matter. If It gets raised now, we all advance, and the veterans will advance faster still because of the fact that they already have skills new players don't, and the mechs and modules to further increase their odds of winning.

If you really can honestly say that the mountain of a grind isn't the leading problem or cause for new players to give up..... even more so then the core features and game play, and lack of instructions on how to play the game.... I m sorry I can't give any credit or merit to your argument.


As to the argument and justification of, "Lets look at other f2p games, How do they do it?"

And that's what many come back to.... that same old song and dance till it runs its course and we'll all look back and say, how did things go south before it ever really get off the ground.....

Since the split, if this was IGP's idea, The "Painful Grind" and if we give them to much c-bills, XP/GXP they will never buy anything mindset, PGI should fix it and soon. They have a chance here to make a F2P model that is done the right way. Make us want to spend money on the micro transactions, grinding out hours and days, and weeks and months for 15 mechs in my bay and mastered total of 45 doesn't make me want to pull my wallet out and buy stuff, given the amount of time spent grinding vs. what you get for supporting this game. All these bad players, new players, veteran players that continue to play this game, are in fact all needed. We may not like it, but the smaller the player base gets, the longer the wait times become for a match, until one day... very few are online and playing the game.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 24 October 2014 - 12:04 PM.

[Revein]

ABalazs, on 24 October 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

Would be great to get back all the real money I sank in this (not that) great game, I have a plenty of unspent MC, fun per dollar ratio seems to be pretty low here.

Tell me if u get your money back. If u get them back cuz u didnt like a game, then we can use your case here for not only this game, but other games out there and get our money back. Example: i did buy CoD one time, i didnt like it at all!!! maybe i could get my money back.

Hopefully u can get us starting, let our crusade vs the gameproducers start!!!

[Livewyr]

Brody319, on 24 October 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

The number of rewards they get. I've never gotten into the 300K but I've gotten 270K.
Getting solo kills nets you the most cash, especially if you can get brawler, tag, and narc kill. However narc takes a missile slot so most are more willing to just give up an energy weapon for tag.
Stay near your team, capture bases, try to get most damage and kills, and keep your tag focused on the enemy.

I have not used Tag or Narc in more than a month. (Probably longer)

My rewards are purely based in damage, teamwork, and tactics. (And ofcourse spotting damage helps.)

Mr Beefy, on 24 October 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

yet another reply that really doesn't mean anything, and we all know the answer.

Does not address the core issues here.

Why does it not answer it? High rewards are no where near impossible, and if one wants to gain them, they merely need to reflect on how they should improve their play. The rewards actually make the game lean more towards the "thinking man's shooter" label it was given years ago- as opposed to "twitch dakka dakka dakka profit."

My reply sums up the core issue perfectly. People are just in shock that merely existing and firing a couple lasers at things isn't bringing in bank like it used to.

Want more cbills? Earn them.

[Praehotec8]

Mr Beefy, on 24 October 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

You have a point for sure, but lets not set him up for failure from the very get go by having a unreasonable grind from after his 25th match till the 6 months it takes him to grind out enough to get a decent stable of mechs in his garage so he can maybe just maybe learn to adapt and find the ones he does well in. OR lets not further handi cap him and others by only giving them 1/3 of the the mech price back if they screw up and find the mech they had to grind so hard for or even worse bought with MC is not the right one for them to do well in.

Is this a unreasonable expectation for a new or even veteran player to have in this game, or any game for that matter?

I would like to preface my post saying I absolutely would like to see an increase in CB earnings to decrease the grind time in this game. I think it would help things while still providing incentive to spend money.

That said...we have all been there as new players and earned the same amount. In fact new players now get a "cadet bonus" that many of us did not have when we started. Bottom line is that it takes only one mech to actually play this game (three variants to get the most out of a chassis), and all the rest is just icing on the cake. Players need to choose a mech that they enjoy - although the game REALLY needs to provide more information to players so they can determine this - and then enjoy playing with it while they earn CB to try other things. So sure, it takes a long time to get more than what you are given with the cadet bonus, but at the end of the day it really comes down to how much one enjoys the game itself.

Furthermore, the "F2P" game is really a misnomer, it ought to be F2Try. These games exist to make money, and as players we need to support development of products we enjoy (if nothing else, to encourage development of more things we like). Personally I approach F2P games with the mentality that if I enjoy the game enough to keep playing, I will spend some amount (generally $20-50, as is common price for retail games). That would be enough to buy 3 variants or a hero mech, and outfit them fairly easily. A player then can be competitive as they grind out CBs to expand their mech stable. Sure, you don't have to pay anything, but if you don't like the game enough to "buy" it, then don't bother to whine that you aren't getting everything out of it.

Again, I fully support an increase in CB earnings, but it's not so terrible for new players with the cadet bonus, as long as they enjoy the game and/or understand that some investment would be very useful (which is totally fair IMO). The bigger issues in my mind are:

1) Make it easier for new players to understand the differences between different mechs and play styles to enable them to make the most of their cadet bonus.

2) Provide a separate environment for new players/trial mechs, as it really is NOT fair to make stock mechs piloted by recruits to go up against lance/star commanders in fully mastered and customized mechs.

[Mr Beefy]

Livewyr, on 24 October 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

I have not used Tag or Narc in more than a month. (Probably longer)

My rewards are purely based in damage, teamwork, and tactics. (And ofcourse spotting damage helps.)



Why does it not answer it? High rewards are no where near impossible, and if one wants to gain them, they merely need to reflect on how they should improve their play. The rewards actually make the game lean more towards the "thinking man's shooter" label it was given years ago- as opposed to "twitch dakka dakka dakka profit."

My reply sums up the core issue perfectly. People are just in shock that merely existing and firing a couple lasers at things isn't bringing in bank like it used to.

Want more cbills? Earn them.

Your reply doesn't some up the core issue at all, and if fact tries to bury the real problem. I posted a screen shot of my earnings above, so if you think I am one of those kinda players....and if your opinion is the majority of the core player base here, there is no point of discussing it further with you that believe all is good here and always have been with earnings.

I for one am not asking for a free ride here, and I know that there are some that troll post and expect everything for free, but that is just not the case here. Time will tell how it all works out, but the ball is in PGI's court here, they can do with it what they see fit.

I think some of you are just holding onto, its not fair, we had to grind it out, why should they have a little easier ride than we did. I say, if it helps promote team play, and makes the extreme grind we have had just a little bit more reasonable, I am all for it because I don't want to hold back new players and old alike in that manner. It is a very big wall regardless if you can't admit it.

[gregsolidus]

We still have new players?

[Livewyr]

Dang merit based economies...next thing you know, they'll start requiring I.D. Cards to log in.

Mr Beefy, on 24 October 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

Your reply doesn't some up the core issue at all, and if fact tries to bury the real problem. I posted a screen shot of my earnings above, so if you think I am one of those kinda players....and if your opinion is the majority of the core player base here, there is no point of discussing it further with you that believe all is good here and always have been with earnings.

I for one am not asking for a free ride here, and I know that there are some that troll post and expect everything for free, but that is just not the case here. Time will tell how it all works out, but the ball is in PGI's court here, they can do with it what they see fit.

I think some of you are just holding onto, its not fair, we had to grind it out, why should they have a little easier ride than we did. I say, if it helps promote team play, and makes the extreme grind we have had just a little bit more reasonable, I am all for it because I don't want to hold back new players and old alike in that manner. It is a very big wall regardless if you can't admit it.

Define for me the "core" issue.