350 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Butane9000, on 27 October 2014 - 03:53 AM, said:

I just don't understand why they decided to only count wins and then give a win bonus. That extra 20 points would have been better as a survival bonus or something.

That one did cause some TKs at my expense...I wasn't a fan.

Navid A1, on 27 October 2014 - 11:54 PM, said:

Well... it was tough. Big salute to people in the summoner bracket. O7.

The amount of kill stealing... i mean... kill securing was on a whole new level.
No matter what you did there was always an evil stormcrow or an invisible cicada right at the moment of the kill... i get shudders from now on when i see them. Overall, it was...not fun.!

A clever Cicada managed to secure a Timby kill for me; I was quite glad, since it allowed me to survive.

It was the best match of the weekend...I would have been very upset if I lost that. Like that one for the Banshee....

[Mechi Messer]

At first the tourny was fun but later on it became exausting. Congratiulations to the top ten players. Especially the ones who cracked the 2100 mark in a light mech. Grinding till your fingers bleed gets you quite far, but at some point extraordinary skill makes the difference.
There are a few issues with the counting though. Collecting assists and kills no matter what (you have to play that way) punishes teamorientated playing. Almost everyone (myself included) ran around seeking the weakest target, spraying lasers across the map to collect assists and played quite selfish. Loadouts changed as well. I even put lurms on a victor to get the assists and lucky punches.
Be it as it may, now back to regular mwo

[Lily from animove]

o0Marduk0o, on 28 October 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

So annoying when you have almost finished a guy and the LRM symbol appears and you know, some LRM boat is going to steal the kill.

They have to remake the whole scoring system to remove kill stealing habits. They now have top-dmg-done and solo-kill rewards, which could be used in the tournament formula as well. The fact that only winning matches count is BS, when the rest of the team is crap.
Furthermore we have leader boards for individual players based on match results for a team performance. This feels wrong.

simple thing is, a mech is worth X amount of cbills, everoyne involved in the kill will receive the amount of % he did to the mech. this makes a fair share to the effort everoyne was putting into killing that mech.

Mechi Messer, on 28 October 2014 - 03:01 AM, said:

At first the tourny was fun but later on it became exausting. Congratiulations to the top ten players. Especially the ones who cracked the 2100 mark in a light mech. Grinding till your fingers bleed gets you quite far, but at some point extraordinary skill makes the difference.
There are a few issues with the counting though. Collecting assists and kills no matter what (you have to play that way) punishes teamorientated playing. Almost everyone (myself included) ran around seeking the weakest target, spraying lasers across the map to collect assists and played quite selfish. Loadouts changed as well. I even put lurms on a victor to get the assists and lucky punches.
Be it as it may, now back to regular mwo

what is bad about this, people firing for assists acrss the map gives you an rough oversihght where the opponents are. Thats valuable information. And going for the weakest target is what "focused" fire in groupgames is all about. Pugs were a lot more coordinated by simply that feature, now it will be again a lot more like a bunch of chickens running into all directions.

[CaptainFuture]

well, that was an exhausting weekend

had to work really hard for #8 in my stormcrow. but i liked it. when do we get our reward ?

bye,

CaptainFuture

[Carl Avery]

Hi. I placed first in Catapults. I say this not to blow my horn, but rather to qualify what I'm about to say. It would be less convincing if I were to gripe about the scoring mechanism if I didn't win, but when a winner complains about the scoring mechanism after he won with it, then you should pay attention. So, my point:

The scoring mechanism is broken. It does not reward skill & hard work as much as it rewards luck and knowing how to exploit the flaws in the system. It encourages selfish, anti-social behavior and produces misleading results; those who fought the hardest and the most skillfully were often given a lower tournament score than someone who let his team do all the real work, and then swooped in and stole all the credit after they all went down because they were effectively missing a man (namely him).

For this reason, playing this tournament was easily the least fun I've had in Mechwarrior Online (and I've had some pretty bad times in this game, including the long 6+ months when hit registration was nuts and when pop-tarting in three chassis was the only thing that could beat pop-tarting in those three chassis). Moreover, I'd say that playing this tournament was the most unpleasant thing I've experienced in any digital game in the last three years.

But there's a more pressing concern. Never mind that the gameplay of the tournament wasn't enjoyable to me; it may have been enjoyable to others (for example, people who have no interest in teamplay). The real problem is this: the tournament is too long—not only in the number of days, but also in the number of play-hours required to place winning scores. It's unhealthy. And, while you (PGI) may technically be able to wash your hands of it, saying, "We didn't make the players play nine hours a day for four days," the tournament demands that all who wish to win put in insane hours like this; if you don't, you won't win, because someone else will put in the hours. It's human nature. I don't think that any of us want to end up reading an article on some news site with the headline,
"MAN, 30, DIES PLAYING 48-HOUR MECHWARRIOR ONLINE MARATHON SESSION DURING DEVELOPER-SPONSORED TOURNAMENT."

So, I respectfully suggest creating a new system which will make these tournaments not so incredibly time-demanding. Perhaps a cap on how many matches each player is able to play for tournament score, and taking the best of those matches ... make it a reasonable number, so that people who cannot afford to play full-time over the weekend (you know, people with families and/or weekend jobs) have a chance of being rewarded for their skill. Make it enough matches to average, say, three hours a day—that's on the high side of a healthy, normal amount of play time. Don't forget to account for search & load times.

Edited by Carl Avery, 28 October 2014 - 04:25 AM.

[Sky Hawk]

I played mostly, with a classic-LRM-Boat in this weekend... (XL, A+, ~2000 Ammo). I had about 15 good matches... But, sure more bad ones... I saw whole teams, who didn't used the target lock in the firts 5-7 minutes of the fight (not the match!)... They lose always... I saw bigger Mechs, like the the Mikey, without CAP (1 tonne!).. Mostly an IS-ECM Lights ran around them... But, because nobody saw them in the radar... they died...

Nowdays, we have least 2-4 LRM-Boats in each team.. If no one spott or least use the target lock during the fight... that means a lose of least 1500-2000 direct-CT damage.. A team, who don't use this advantage, is just stupid... or HELO..

Before anyone call "kill steal"... don't forget, that LRMs have a 4-8 sec flying time.. So, if the CT is red.. You have enough time for an Alfa, before the LRMs reaches the target.. And if, the CT is not soft enough... Ye, if an average pilot becomes every second an LRM-volley hit, they almost don't see anything, or have time to care anything else, just to find a hideout.. For a brawler, such a target must be like a free candy.. I personally don't like stealing the kills, for me would be far enough the Assist, but, I can't call my missiles back... Normally, even, if I made the 90% of the damages, I don't care who made the Kill.. except on Challange/Event times... but, that is not my failure, it's the Challange Reward System's...

Actually the New Reward System can end the "I killed it/You stole it!" discussion forever.. It is so, easy, I don't understand, why they don't implemented it till now... The "Killer" and the "Most Damage Maker" should be become equal points! No one would cry "You stole my Kill" anymore...

I think the Challange Point System should be give rewards for EVERYBODY, who helps his/her team in ANY ways. For example, my version would be:

- Kill Blow = 20 points
- Kill Most Damage = 20 points
- Assists = 10 points
- NARC = 5 points
- TAG = 3 points
- Spott = 2 points
- ECM-counter = 1 point

- Win = 20 points
- Tie = 10 points
- Lose = 5 points

- Base Cap = 15 points
- Point Cap = 10 points
- Point Re-Cap = 5 points

- Damage = [ (Match DMG - Team DMG) / 20 ] points [ ! ]
- Resources = [ Collected Resources / 30 ] points

- Player Lives = 10 points
- Player Died = 5 points
- Team Kill = - 40 points [ can go below zero ! ]

Edited by Sky Hawk, 28 October 2014 - 04:08 AM.

[Mechi Messer]

Lily from animove, on 28 October 2014 - 03:35 AM, said:

what is bad about this, people firing for assists acrss the map gives you an rough oversihght where the opponents are. Thats valuable information. And going for the weakest target is what "focused" fire in groupgames is all about. Pugs were a lot more coordinated by simply that feature, now it will be again a lot more like a bunch of chickens running into all directions.

You got me wrong, I just didn't like the overall ruthlessness. I caught loads of friendly fire (and dished out myself) because everybody was in for the kill at every opportunity. I'm all for strategic gameplay but lost a few too many components by frenzied lbx-teammates during this weekend.

Edited by Mechi Messer, 28 October 2014 - 04:17 AM.

[Gorgo7]

I would like to see how many players piloted each chassis type.
I scored well in my Awesome8Q (1897) and I was wondering what the mean was in my chassis and how many participated.
Could the Dev's please post?

Cheers,

Gorgo7

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

You could get a feel for it if you checked after your first win. For example My first griffin win had me at 147, ended up 21st with 1759. So still puts me near the top in griffins. So I am guessing somewhere around 150-180 total for that chassis. (my first win was middlin, not a real good one)

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 28 October 2014 - 04:27 AM.

[GRAND MASTER GORE]

I think 400 player each mech

[Lily from animove]

Sky Hawk, on 28 October 2014 - 04:00 AM, said:

I played mostly, with a classic-LRM-Boat in this weekend... (XL, A+, ~2000 Ammo). I had about 15 good matches... But, sure more bad ones... I saw whole teams, who didn't used the target lock in the firts 5-7 minutes of the fight (not the match!)... They lose always... I saw bigger Mechs, like the the Mikey, without CAP (1 tonne!).. Mostly an IS-ECM Lights ran around them... But, because nobody saw them in the radar... they died...

Nowdays, we have least 2-4 LRM-Boats in each team.. If no one spott or least use the target lock during the fight... that means a lose of least 1500-2000 direct-CT damage.. A team, who don't use this advantage, is just stupid... or HELO..

Before anyone call "kill steal"... don't forget, that LRMs have a 4-8 sec flying time.. So, if the CT is red.. You have enough time for an Alfa, before the LRMs reaches the target.. And if, the CT is not soft enough... Ye, if an average pilot becomes every second an LRM-volley hit, they almost don't see anything, or have time to care anything else, just to find a hideout.. For a brawler, such a target must be like a free candy.. I personally don't like stealing the kills, for me would be far enough the Assist, but, I can't call my missiles back... Normally, even, if I made the 90% of the damages, I don't care who made the Kill.. except on Challange/Event times... but, that is not my failure, it's the Challange Reward System's...

Actually the New Reward System can end the "I killed it/You stole it!" discussion forever.. It is so, easy, I don't understand, why they don't implemented it till now... The "Killer" and the "Most Damage Maker" should be become equal points! No one would cry "You stole my Kill" anymore...

I think the Challange Point System should be give rewards for EVERYBODY, who helps his/her team in ANY ways. For example, my version would be:

- Kill Blow = 20 points
- Kill Most Damage = 20 points
- Assists = 10 points
- NARC = 5 points
- TAG = 3 points
- Spott = 2 points
- ECM-counter = 1 point

- Win = 20 points
- Tie = 10 points
- Lose = 5 points

- Base Cap = 15 points
- Point Cap = 10 points
- Point Re-Cap = 5 points

- Damage = [ (Match DMG - Team DMG) / 20 ] points [ ! ]
- Resources = [ Collected Resources / 30 ] points

- Player Lives = 10 points
- Player Died = 5 points
- Team Kill = - 40 points [ can go below zero ! ]

but theen poeple would just use different mecheanics to "exploit" the luck farming, they would use narcs and tags all the time making sure they narc tag anything shortly before death and then trying to steal the kill as well. There isn't really any kind of "real" proof for skill. All you can do is to minimize the way to abuse it. But narcs and tags may just increase the way how lights score superbig by beign speedy enough to narc tag and maybe killsteal whatevery they can grab. nd then mediums may be the ones being the worst in this comparison because unlike the heavies and assauls they are too slow to arc and tag averything and/or rack up damage like the assaults. but basically mediums are a pointless class atm anyways. The onyl one is the SCR being superior, amazing mobility and hitboxes with a decent weapon laodout and hardpoints. Great mech actually, too great.

[Tahribator]

The emphasis on kills should be reduced. It encourages people in fast 'Mechs to play selfish (holding fire until the enemy is about to die) and encourages LRM boating in heavier 'Mechs, since they cannot compete with faster 'Mechs in "the art of steal" because of their speed. The Orion was fun for me as brawler, until I realized the first two guys were running pure LRM boats. After I refitted my SRM VA with LRMs, I bumped up my score by 100 just after a few matches. Though, a playstyle like this is very selfish(hiding behind a rock while unleashing 40 alpha LRM salvos to targets of opportunity) and hurts the team a lot because a heavy 'Mech is removed from the frontline.

As I said, please less emphasis on kills. Maybe reduce it to about 15, while increasing the reward for damage. If you still want the emphasis on kills, then at least the person who damaged the dying 'Mech a lot should also get points for a kill instead of a puny assist.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Give points for kill most damage. Anyways this is the last one scored like this right?

[Lily from animove]

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 28 October 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

Give points for kill most damage. Anyways this is the last one scored like this right?

I don't think so, when PGI wants to measure their quirk changes, they have to do it again, otherwise the results will show noting comparable at all.

[DarthPeanut]

Played this one pretty casually. Friday night I played for a number of hours. Saturday night maybe a dozen or so drops. Nothing Sunday. Last night did another dozen drops after work when I had a little time. Ended up 6th in Banshee.

Just bought Banshees about 2 weeks ago and finished eliting the 3E during tournament. Almost done mastering the 3S and 3M.

I like the chassis by chassis break out. Scoring system I have commented on a couple times already and from what I read will be changing in the future.

Edited by DarthPeanut, 28 October 2014 - 05:10 AM.

[Verkhne]

Chassis analysis will have to be based on grouping by numbers played and ELO so looking at the results in isolation is not perhaps as helpful as would first appear! I would love to see PGI produce results for the community to see with that analysis factored in (so for example top ten player of identical elo scores per chassis ). More numbers is obviously better but ELO matching and chasssis player base may limit sample size.

[Sky Hawk]

Lily from animove, on 28 October 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

but theen poeple would just use different mecheanics to "exploit" the luck farming, they would use narcs and tags all the time making sure they narc tag anything shortly before death and then trying to steal the kill as well. There isn't really any kind of "real" proof for skill. All you can do is to minimize the way to abuse it. But narcs and tags may just increase the way how lights score superbig by beign speedy enough to narc tag and maybe killsteal whatevery they can grab. nd then mediums may be the ones being the worst in this comparison because unlike the heavies and assauls they are too slow to arc and tag averything and/or rack up damage like the assaults. but basically mediums are a pointless class atm anyways. The onyl one is the SCR being superior, amazing mobility and hitboxes with a decent weapon laodout and hardpoints. Great mech actually, too great.

I think, not many Lights can Tag + Narc + Have DMG to Kill Blow + Stay alive in the same time... But, even when, the other players still can made the Assists and Most Damage points, they can Spot/Tag too.. So, those "Super-Mechwarrior" Light can't steal everything.. Besides that, how many times can a Light make those 4 things in a match... A handfull player can perhaps 4-6 do, but the most of them are dead after 2-3 try.. And, if you have such good teammate, who kills a whole lance before he dies.. that, means, there is still 8 Reds, and your team is still 11...

I don't played every Meds, but, my BJs are good for least sniping and hit-and-run.. Kintaros are very good fast-LRMs-Boats, and I could even Narc + Boats with Cents in this weekend (I almost never used Cents before..).. Oh.. and there is the 3M too... Ye, Meds have no armor compare to Heavys or Assaults, but most of them can least fall back and hide in a safe place fast enough... mostly... The Crow is the best Meds nowdays, but it has a bad weakpoint too. It can't fire over anything..

Even, when 1-2 player is skilled enough to collect all the top-points in a match (sure, there are not many of them).. I think, if there are far more, than 3 ways, to collect points, every other player can gather an almost fair part of it in the same time... no matter in which weightclasses he/her play...

PS:

Lily from animove, on 28 October 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

I don't think so, when PGI wants to measure their quirk changes, they have to do it again, otherwise the results will show noting comparable at all.

Actually, they become ALL in-game datas, every time, in every match... So, even if the Challange-System will change, they will have all the old style datas too, in the same time.. (Kill/Assaults/DMG/Wins)... Just the players can't compare the end-datas... PGI can it easiely...

Edited by Sky Hawk, 28 October 2014 - 06:09 AM.

[Tarogato]

I want to be able to see the number of players in each bracket as well. Devs, give it to us! <3
I'd even like to see the full list, from top to bottom to see what the score distribution is. Maybe as a popout option.

Carl Avery, on 28 October 2014 - 03:52 AM, said:

long post full of good stuff

All of my yes. The tourney is way too long. Limit the maximum number of participating drops and only count the 10 best out of them. You have 3-4 days to complete your drops, but once you finished the maximum number of drops, you've finished the tournament, even if you did them all in one day.

Edited by Tarogato, 28 October 2014 - 04:20 PM.

[Motörhead]

Carl Avery's post is what this tournies really are: unhealty.

I had a tournie (faction Revenge) where I scored 2334 points...I was exausted and had to play too much (even then I dropped from 3rd to 6th because I was busy on Monday).

This has to be a game, not a work !

[DocBach]

Lily from animove, on 28 October 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

I don't think so, when PGI wants to measure their quirk changes, they have to do it again, otherwise the results will show noting comparable at all.

next time, when we all work so hard to gather the telemetry of the quirk changes for them, they should do an event like the one where they gave out a buttload of cbills.

I don't have enough time over the weekend to play for those perfect games required to win the leaderboard, but I do have enough time to get a couple of those "hey, that was OK games" good enough for the c-bill prizes, you know, for all my hard work testing the quirks and stuff.