122 replies to this topic

[-VooDoo-]

what he said, lol.

[Kjudoon]

Jazz Hands, on 26 October 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

1. Only weapon in the game that doesn't require LOS to damage target

2. Longest natural firing distance

3. Does not suffer damage reduction penalty

LRM's can do upwards of 60 points of damage in a lob...every few seconds, and with narc, tag and UAV's get hitting by all of them is pretty common. They can kill anything that tries to move, except a light, in seconds. Especially where LRM boats are in groups...which they usually are.

I'm not saying get rid of them...but something in the dynamic has to change imo.

1.1 dmg per missile. Almost guaranteed to miss with half your salvo even with direct LOS and close range. Damage spread over entire body, so no way to do an instant kill. You must 'sand' down your opponent like attacking them with a belt sander.

If you want to use an equivalent criticism, Brawlers need to stop playing this game like "Double Dragon 1" where it's just rush in and button mash. There's "no skill" to doing that.

Of course, that's a lie. There are skills and techniques to the whole durn game for every playstyle. Denigrate them or claim they aren't skill at your own peril.

[-VooDoo-]

I scratch my head wondering how people act like there isn't a problem here...and in my eyes there is no comparison to a ballistic load out and an LRM boat. Those "brawlers" don't last more than a few minutes with the run up and smash button method of play. So there is a consequence to that, that is not true with lurm boats. With ballistics you have to move (if you wanna live) and continually lead targets appropriately for travel time of the round while your moving. Get serious man.

[KharnZor]

Jazz Hands, on 26 October 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

I scratch my head wondering how people act like there isn't a problem here...and in my eyes there is no comparison to a ballistic load out and an LRM boat. Those "brawlers" don't last more than a few minutes with the run up and smash button method of play. So there is a consequence to that, that is not true with lurm boats. With ballistics you have to move (if you wanna live) and continually lead targets appropriately for travel time of the round while your moving. Get serious man.

Ever stopped to wonder why alot of people have little to no problems with lrms?
Of course you havent.

[-VooDoo-]

No, no problem at all...hence all the posts everyday and in game bitching. Never heard a word.

[Kjudoon]

Jazz Hands, on 26 October 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

I scratch my head wondering how people act like there isn't a problem here...and in my eyes there is no comparison to a ballistic load out and an LRM boat. Those "brawlers" don't last more than a few minutes with the run up and smash button method of play. So there is a consequence to that, that is not true with lurm boats. With ballistics you have to move (if you wanna live) and continually lead targets appropriately for travel time of the round while your moving. Get serious man.

It's because there ISN'T a problem here save for the complaining about LRMs. Bad players are bad players. Be they brawler, Support, recon or sniper. You have to move with every role. Every role... if you want to live.

I don't have to lead targets, this is true.

I DO have to know where hidden cover is if I can't see them so I have to visualize my flight trajectory. This requires a higher degree of map awareness than any other playstyle.

I have to hold locks and sometimes hang out in the open to maintain them putting myself at risk 5 times longer than any DF mech.

I have counters exclusive to my weapon systems, DF systems do not.

I have the risk of increased death by ammo explosion even compared to ballistic mechs.

My weapon is the slowest, least accurate weapon of all weapons.

And yet, it is effective. How can something so bad be that way if not for the skill of a pilot if all things are equal? Obviously, you believe that Autocannons are the superior weapon. They are in many ways. Doesn't that this then mean they require the least amount of skill to use? Just point and click. Damage done. You don't have to wait, suffer randomization of hit location depleting damage, worry about losing lock causing your entire attack to miss, or countermeasures.

There are other measures of skill than you're aware of. There are other challenges some find more entertaining than what you see. There are more ways to enjoy this game than 'mech smash' brawltardery.

Edited by Kjudoon, 26 October 2014 - 03:54 PM.

[KharnZor]

Jazz Hands, on 26 October 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

No, no problem at all...hence all the posts everyday and in game bitching. Never heard a word.

Thanks for proving my point. If you cant avoid the weakest weapon system in the game with the counters available to you then you have no hope.

[White Bear 84]

FupDup, on 24 October 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

Honorable mention: Sometimes LRM turrets can be pure buIIshit because they get seem to get locks too easily.

BS when you are in the middle of Canyon and they can hit you...

[STEF_]

Tincan Nightmare, on 26 October 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

The simple fact that they are used heavily in PUG matches, but almost never in the higher player brackets, screams that something is wrong with there implementation.

This fatc means that in group game players play better and lrm are quite useless; meanwhile in pugs qq there are a looot of noobs and bad players so lrm are usefull. As you can see, there's nothig wrong with lrm

Jazz Hands, on 26 October 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

what he said, lol.

I can translate in simple words for you: LEARN. TO. PLAY.

out.

[Krivvan]

Jazz Hands, on 26 October 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

Those "brawlers" don't last more than a few minutes with the run up and smash button method of play. So there is a consequence to that, that is not true with lurm boats. With ballistics you have to move (if you wanna live) and continually lead targets appropriately for travel time of the round while your moving. Get serious man.

You're leaving out snipers. And these brawlers generally don't mindlessly run up to enemies and kill them. When played well they do live throughout the game. But besides that, LRM boats that actually sit back at spawn are unable to contribute to pushes and stick with a team actually end up being detriments to teams no matter what damage numbers say. LRM assaults that sit at their spawn are just free kills for lights too.

Also, you should play some faster and lighter weight classes. People assume that Lights are easy to kill and that Assaults are hard to kill, but it's not that simple. Lights may die much quicker when actually targeted and hit, but they can afford to make positioning mistakes and LRMs are basically ineffective against them if they know what they're doing.

I could run over a hill in a light, see the entire enemy team and go "oh crap oh crap oh crap" and immediately turn around back over the hill and live.

Assaults on the other hand are harder to kill once actually fired upon, but they cannot afford to make a positioning mistake or they'll go down alone like an idiot. LRMs, whenever they're actually effective, are mainly effective against slow assault mechs that can't just take half a second to dive back into cover.

If I walk over a hill in an assault and the entire enemy team is facing me, I could actually go down or get seriously damaged in the time it takes me to get back down.

Edited by Krivvan, 26 October 2014 - 10:46 PM.

[Krivvan]

Tincan Nightmare, on 25 October 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

LRM's are not a problem in high level competitive play because an organized team can outfit themselves to counter them. Any organized team can make sure that every player has AMS, and that they are bringing along at least one ECM mech. Plus with voice communications they can easily call out warnings for spotters using TAG, if someones NARC'ed, or if a UAV has been deployed (and to shoot it down).

Organized teams don't usually bring all that much AMS or ECM. I know we don't bring any AMS or ECM or LRMs at all.

Edited by Krivvan, 26 October 2014 - 10:50 PM.

[Mercules]

Jazz Hands, on 26 October 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

I scratch my head wondering how people act like there isn't a problem here...

Because there isn't a problem. The people who have problems with LRMs are those who lack skill. There are half a dozen counters to LRMs. I will state it again and again until you all get it.

The lower the skill of the target the more effective LRMs are.


It is really hard to hit a skilled target with LRMs. However in the PUG queue against schlubs who complain more than than learn they work well. Stop being easy targets.

[Kjudoon]

Krivvan, on 26 October 2014 - 10:41 PM, said:

You're leaving out snipers. And these brawlers generally don't mindlessly run up to enemies and kill them. When played well they do live throughout the game. But besides that, LRM boats that actually sit back at spawn are unable to contribute to pushes and stick with a team actually end up being detriments to teams no matter what damage numbers say. LRM assaults that sit at their spawn are just free kills for lights too.

Also, you should play some faster and lighter weight classes. People assume that Lights are easy to kill and that Assaults are hard to kill, but it's not that simple. Lights may die much quicker when actually targeted and hit, but they can afford to make positioning mistakes and LRMs are basically ineffective against them if they know what they're doing.

I could run over a hill in a light, see the entire enemy team and go "oh crap oh crap oh crap" and immediately turn around back over the hill and live.

Assaults on the other hand are harder to kill once actually fired upon, but they cannot afford to make a positioning mistake or they'll go down alone like an idiot. LRMs, whenever they're actually effective, are mainly effective against slow assault mechs that can't just take half a second to dive back into cover.

If I walk over a hill in an assault and the entire enemy team is facing me, I could actually go down or get seriously damaged in the time it takes me to get back down.

and this is why my personal rule of thumb is NOTHING under 70kph, preferably over 80. And yes I run Victors and Battlemasters, and some very fast Heavies in Orions and Catapults. The speed and JJs when I have them are invaluable for saving my bacon from positioning mistakes.

+1 with multiball!

[GumbyC2C]

How many times are we going to have this discussion?
I don't run LRM boats, but they don't bother me too much either.
Take some ECM, some AMS, or Radar Deprivation or better some combo of the three, find some cover, and quit whining.
They are only really annoying when you get narc'd because then all of the above doesn't always help much.

You know, it's pretty easy to spot the LRM boats on the other team too. Get in their face and kick their teeth in. Even Clan LRMs are not great at close range. Then laugh at them for being LRM noobs that can't shoot without a lock-on.

[Kjudoon]

Krivvan, on 26 October 2014 - 10:49 PM, said:

Organized teams don't usually bring all that much AMS or ECM. I know we don't bring any AMS or ECM or LRMs at all.

Of course not. You know how to use cover, get inside the envelopes and are generally fearless and never stop moving, understand force concentration, and when that first LRM mech is spotted, focused down like an ant under the magnifying glass.

And since this game is biased against LRMs, it's quite easy to do once you know how and have the skill/computer/ping to do it.

[RockmachinE]

LRMs are still a huge nuisance. Huge nuisance! You can't do anything without being locked. It used to not be like this. They're not op or the cause of many deaths, but they are ever present and annoying as sh*t. Whatever you do you get locked unless you run ECM.

It adds a huge element of having to avoid LRMs half the time, and actually detracts from interesting skirmishes and tactical gameplay because of having to constantly react to it. You get locked as soon as you leave cover and the only place not to be locked is in cover. Figure it out.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 27 October 2014 - 04:34 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Well, don't worry, competent and efficient LRMboats will quickly dwindle thanks to the new LRM nerf. I've already had to gut every LRMboat to avoid overheating in 2 shots rather than have the ability to fire 4-6 without that problem. Unless missile centric mechs get HUGE buffs for LRMs by Tier quirks, they will be nigh useless soon:

All advantages of an LRM5 have been basically destroyed. 15 tubes is not enough to be functional on any mech unless you remove AMS from the game (which will never happen) or only allow it to target missiles aimed at the mech it's attached to (since the real issue won't be addressed either).

The best you can do anymore is 40LRMs on 2 launchers which is a sub par build for 40 tubes and most mechs under a heavy can't carry the minimum ammo requirements of 8 tons to make it marginally functional as it runs hotter/slower/heavier and less accurate than the 15/15/5/5 or 15/15/10 combo.


So good job PGI, nerfing hard the most maligned weapon system in the game. If Indirect Fire was something you're not interested in putting on even footing with other weapons, you may as well remove it from the game.

If not and you need to keep a nerf to appease the LRMHatorz, remove LRM5s from the ghost heat sync or up it to "More than 4". THAT would at least be SOMEWHAT fair.

Edited by Kjudoon, 27 October 2014 - 06:39 AM.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Kjudoon, on 27 October 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

The best you can do anymore is 40LRMs on 2 launchers which is a sub par build for 40 tubes and most mechs under a heavy can't carry the minimum ammo requirements of 8 tons to make it marginally functional as it runs hotter/slower/heavier and less accurate than the 15/15/5/5 or 15/15/10 combo.

So good job PGI, nerfing hard the most maligned weapon system in the game. If Indirect Fire was something you're not interested in putting on even footing with other weapons, you may as well remove it from the game.

Instead of trying to cram 60 LRM volleys into one mech, have you considered having 12 mechs with 5-10 average tubes each?

Have your entire team slap on a single LRM rack and coordinate fire. It works surprisingly well.

[Kjudoon]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 27 October 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

Instead of trying to cram 60 LRM volleys into one mech, have you considered having 12 mechs with 5-10 average tubes each?

Have your entire team slap on a single LRM rack and coordinate fire. It works surprisingly well.

I do not own a single mech that has more than 40lrms on it. I find the practice of burning through that much ammo to be a waste and not efficient when 40 usually gets the job done. 40 seems to be optimal efficiency for me. it's a 44pt broadside (minus 50% for just being LRMs of course in normal conditions because... well PGI has determined they should)

Plus too many players don't know how to use LRMs, or act like they've had their bushido soul offended at the sight of a musket.

Not to mention... coordination with anyone outside of TS? You shouldn't post drunk/stoned.

Edited by Kjudoon, 27 October 2014 - 06:57 AM.

[NUJRSYDEVIL]

I do believe LRM spamming is a real problem, I'm glad we have so many people that like to camp and wait it out for the first ten minutes of the game, enjoy your beer!

Anyways I modified my only assault/heavy to add LRMs recently in a "If ya can't beat em, join em" move. Dividends have already paid off and the old Stalker is getting on average 600 points a game with 2 LRM15s among other things.

It's sad, I hope they fix this. I really enjoyed the game before this weekend, but something definitely changed for the worse.