45 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

Okay... Here's a thought.

Remember the good ol days of MW3/4 when field salvage was added to your coffer and became part of your inventory?

Hows this for a salvage incentive for players: When you defeat a player, any weapon that is not presently owned by you and not destroyed as a result of the battle... now belongs to you.

Here's the kicker... You can mount it on your mech (Yes, IS can mount Clan tech). BUT... When if/when you die to someone who doesn't own this weapon, you lose it and they gain it... just like you did...

This would allow pilots access to some of the Clan tech, and higher level IS tech without the cost and would incentify playing smart and would reward tactical destruction of ones enemy in hopes of pilfering their tech.

In short... You keep what you kill. Until someone kills you.

Thoughts?

[Grantham Besat]

You know this is a bad idea. First off I am typing from a cell so this post will be messy. You dont pay reload or repair bills and the new reward system is paying out mega bucks to anyone who has half a brain. I can make 200 or 250k games now fairly easily. So why do we need this? If people start playing role warfare and improve their skill by chasing cbills then its good for us all. Let people learn to stack hit and run, flank, and in formation bonuses. Let them learn that the map is big mechs have legs and you dont need to hug your enemy to kill him.

Edited by Grantham Besat, 26 October 2014 - 10:35 PM.

[slide]

In principle I agree with what your saying and it has been suggested many times before, it is effectively a first step towards proper salvage in the game.

I disagree however with being able to use Clan tech on IS mechs. Not because i am a purist but because it would totally screw with what little balance this game has. Can you imagine Jager bombs using 2 CAC20 moving faster because they can now mount a bigger engine or more ammo/HS because of the lighter weapons (or 2 CGauss Rifles). It would be a balancing nightmare not to mention it would all but obsolete IS weapons overnight. Seriously would you ever mount an IS Medium laser ever again?

[Thejuggla]

slide, on 26 October 2014 - 09:52 PM, said:

In principle I agree with what your saying and it has been suggested many times before, it is effectively a first step towards proper salvage in the game.

I disagree however with being able to use Clan tech on IS mechs. Not because i am a purist but because it would totally screw with what little balance this game has. Can you imagine Jager bombs using 2 CAC20 moving faster because they can now mount a bigger engine or more ammo/HS because of the lighter weapons (or 2 CGauss Rifles). It would be a balancing nightmare not to mention it would all but obsolete IS weapons overnight. Seriously would you ever mount an IS Medium laser ever again?

I'd say other way around imagine having dual IS ac20s on clan mechs.

[DaZur]

Grantham Besat, on 26 October 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

You know this is a bad idea. First off I am typing from a cell so this post will be messy. You dont pay reload or repair bills and the new reward system is paying out mega bucks to anyone who has half a brain. I can make 200 or 250k games now fairly easily. So why do we need this? If people start playing role warfare amd improve their skill by chasing cbills then its good for us all. Let people learn to stack hit and run, flank, and in formation bonuses. Let them learn that the map is big mechs have legs and you dont need to hug your enemy to kill him.

Got an axe to grind?

I'm not grousing over net rewards in any sense... I'm advocating reaping temporary ownership of salvaged tech.

slide, on 26 October 2014 - 09:52 PM, said:

In principle I agree with what your saying and it has been suggested many times before, it is effectively a first step towards proper salvage in the game.

I disagree however with being able to use Clan tech on IS mechs. Not because i am a purist but because it would totally screw with what little balance this game has. Can you imagine Jager bombs using 2 CAC20 moving faster because they can now mount a bigger engine or more ammo/HS because of the lighter weapons (or 2 CGauss Rifles). It would be a balancing nightmare not to mention it would all but obsolete IS weapons overnight. Seriously would you ever mount an IS Medium laser ever again?

I ask you to re-read my original post... A player would only retain ownership of that tech until such time they are killed by a player who doesn't own the tech in question.

Very...very...very few players can last long enough to enjoy that tech advantage for more than maybe a half-dozen games. As such that temporary tilt of that tech scale would largely be short-lived...

[DocBach]

Do you get a higher cbill payout for killing clan mechs? That'd be a pretty nice start.

Perhaps a higher bonus for an is mech that kills a clan mech, where a clan mech gets lower money for killing an is one.

[DaZur]

DocBach, on 26 October 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

Do you get a higher cbill payout for killing clan mechs? That'd be a pretty nice start.

Perhaps a higher bonus for an is mech that kills a clan mech, where a clan mech gets lower money for killing an is one.

While I agree with you to an extent... That's class warfare and would not end pretty.

Now... what if IS could aside from mounting it maybe also sell it?

[Grantham Besat]

You would rapidly hit a point where no one purchased weapons because you would saturate the game with salvage. Opion two is to drain what few cbills a casual player has by forcing him to replace lost weapons. Option three is people like me get a huge cbill boost farming baddies and selling salvaged weapons.

Edited by Grantham Besat, 26 October 2014 - 10:38 PM.

[Grantham Besat]

As a side note you really do not want to mix tech because if you think that meta is bad now or that diversity sucks then you should realize that allowing tech mixxing is the Pandors box of MW

Edited by Grantham Besat, 26 October 2014 - 10:40 PM.

[DaZur]

Grantham Besat, on 26 October 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

Option three is people like me get a huge cbill boost farming baddies and selling salvaged weapons.

You say that like it would be a bad thing?

Grantham Besat, on 26 October 2014 - 10:27 PM, said:

As a side note you really do not want to mix tech because if you think that meta is bad now or that diversity sucks then you should realize that allowing tech mixxing is the Pandors nox of MW

You guys are getting hung up on perceived imbalances...

It's a temporary perk that if the community metrics is correct one has a 50/50 chance of losing it the next time they step on the battlefield...

[Popper100]

This is a good/bad idea. It is good for the current form of the game in that it adds more fluff and additional ways to progress in the game. But it is bad for reasons stated above, it penalizes poor players by making them pay out for additional gear and is a mess to balance in this form of the game.

I say this form of the game because I do not think it is a good form to have taken. It is devoid of meta and raison d'etre beyond "let's smash mechs together and see what happens." I can do that in Mercs for free without the hair tearing session. If this game took the form of a persistent conflict that had shallow, but significant depth it would be a different story. I like to imagine this game could have had pvp centered around conflict worlds, where you contracted to stay for 3-7 days at a time. On these worlds would be differing economies and equipment availability that would allow you to pick up mechs and weapons for varying prices and would dictate combat dynamics. I love to think that the Clans would recieve their proper weapons and the invasion would be a trigger event. Players buying into Clan mechs would be removed from IS, their faction choice changed to Clan generic, equipment refunded. Then they would be slotted into matches on conflict worlds with a "time skip" excuse, one side being IS and the other being Clan. Their could be worlds designed for exclusive IS vs Clan matches with no equipment mixing. You would have a chance after a win to salvage weapons and even entire mechs, however slim the latter. Weapons would be interchangeable and, as stated, Clan gear would be better in many ways with esoteric downsides. There would be a clear line of progression as the invasion proceded, with each side using what they could steal and optimize with.

Alas, we have a TDM.
I would like salvage in-game, but I fear it is no more than a income option in this state.

Edited by Popper100, 26 October 2014 - 10:44 PM.

[Grantham Besat]

It will imbalance things. If you alow mixxed tech then some people will be able to farm enough clan weapons to turn certain is mechs into beasts. So no no mater how you try to ballance it gamers will break it. Also you would have to disalow people from using tech they just own on mechs they own. Ho do you explain that? There is a reason limits exsist and a reason Pandoras box should remain closed.

[Mercules]

No....

If you don't understand why it is bad to arm IS mechs with Clan systems then I don't know what I can say to enlighten you. I know you know better than this DaZur.

[Walluh]

Let's make those 12-0 stomps even more frustrating by getting barely any cbills, and then losing half your weapons as well. Say bye bye to that fancy 1.2mil LB20

Let's also make the playerbase even more terrified and cautious because absolutely nobody will ever want to die with this system in place. There will be /zero/ pushing.

[Triordinant]

It's already been determined that there won't be any mixing of IS/Clan tech.

[Impyrium]

See, I'm sorta for and against this. I want to see salvage become a major part of the game, and a proper inventory... but not so much in the queues. In CW, certainly- dream game mode is to have a separate inventory for your 'Mechs in CW which rely on salvage and your Merc Unit's coffers or something.

I really don't want to see Clan Tech used on IS 'Mechs or visa versa without some for of penalty in heat or something.

But salvage and a proper economy? I know PGI aren't keen on it, but it'd be what really made CW for me...

[slide]

Thejuggla, on 26 October 2014 - 10:03 PM, said:

I'd say other way around imagine having dual IS ac20s on clan mechs.

Either way it would be messy to balance.

DaZur, on 26 October 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

I ask you to re-read my original post... A player would only retain ownership of that tech until such time they are killed by a player who doesn't own the tech in question.

Very...very...very few players can last long enough to enjoy that tech advantage for more than maybe a half-dozen games. As such that temporary tilt of that tech scale would largely be short-lived...

I understood what you propose. It would only work if there is a strict limit to how many of said salvaged weapon you can own, other wise people will just stockpile them until they have enough to sustain them for a while. It would not be difficult to keep up a regular supply of CERML for example. Also how do you differentiate between "salvaged" weapons and weapons bought "off the shelf" Unless it has a serial number and AC20 off the shelf is exactly the same as one off the field. Unless the tech trees are strictly limited to not being able to purchase both types of tech it would become very difficult to police who salvaged what. Not to mention people running out of bounds or overheat suicide to protect their precious weapon from being lost when things are going badly, causing all sorts of issues.

I am all for a more lore friendly economy in this game, one that includes salvage. But mixed tech is a Pandora's Box of trouble until such time (2 years maybe) as the Devs have the resources to deal with it properly.

[Mystere]

DocBach, on 26 October 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

Do you get a higher cbill payout for killing clan mechs? That'd be a pretty nice start.

Perhaps a higher bonus for an is mech that kills a clan mech, where a clan mech gets lower money for killing an is one.

Considering that the goal is 1 vs. 1 balance, I have to give this one a big fat No!

Now if Clan tech was inline with BT, then you have a deal.

[Alek Ituin]

DaZur, on 26 October 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

You keep what you kill.

The Necromonger way.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Grantham Besat, on 26 October 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

You know this is a bad idea. First off I am typing from a cell so this post will be messy. You dont pay reload or repair bills and the new reward system is paying out mega bucks to anyone who has half a brain. I can make 200 or 250k games now fairly easily. So why do we need this? If people start playing role warfare and improve their skill by chasing cbills then its good for us all. Let people learn to stack hit and run, flank, and in formation bonuses. Let them learn that the map is big mechs have legs and you dont need to hug your enemy to kill him.

So you want the game to be tag the legs and shoot it with LRMS? Thats the way the meta sounds now...just leg everything....and I thought that kinda went away in MW4....lol...