724 replies to this topic

[Ceesa]

Some perspective: I started playing this game a month or so after it entered open beta. I liked the progression and thought the grind was reasonable. When rewards 2.0 hit, the community was toxic, the game was stale, and the grind was intolerable. So I stopped playing.

I came back this week to check in and see if things had changed. There's some new content, sure, but I'm averaging 100k cbills per game. It's not horribly slow, but it's not fun either. I have 15M in the bank, which I think should be enough for a timberwolf, but it certainly won't be enough for 2 or 3 of them, so I can kiss mastering that chasis goodbye. I remember when I could get 200k+ on a good game. Now I do a happy dance for anything over 150k. It's just so darn slow, and so I'm probably going to stick around long enough to get my t-wolf, play a few games, and then drop it altogether again.

It's a shame too since I love the IP and have played MW since MW2 (which dropped when I was in elementary school).

[KrazedOmega]

Mr Beefy, on 25 October 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

Sir, I would have to say that game you just posted is a fine example of helping your team win, as long as it wasn't in the last event we had, and you was killing the last mech on the enemy side in a base assault where you team was 30 seconds away from getting 20 points on instead of only 10. +1 also if you didn't chase down the last light on the enemy team for 2 minutes and kill him while your team was asking you nicely not to do it, we have the primary objective in the bag. +1 if you didn't proceed to type "LOL" in chat after you killed the said light, and explained to us you need the C-bills and XP for things you want, and it doesn't pay to take the base.

Please continue to do what you do if you didn't fit the bill above, and don't let the "L2P" or leave crowd change you. We are all hoping PGI takes notice and makes the required change to weed these guys out, or heard them like the sheep they are to do the right thing, even when it doesn't pay out in C-bills as well. Ya Know, real team play, because even though you might lose the battle by trying to take the primary objective, it is the reason you play, ya know, fun, immersion and stuff like that.

If you're referring to the screenshot in the post I quoted, it isn't mine. I yelled at a few people that weekend that went for the kill rather than just cap.

[RalphVargr]

One tangible effect for me is that the Stormcrow Trio is probably the last set of three that I will buy. It's simply too expensive to grind out mastery for any more, and I mean the expense in time. I have yet to master my Adders, as well. After overtime work weeks, the time is simply not there.

No more consumables. With the variability of earnings, costs have to be cut.

3 million C-Bill modules are probably an endangered species. Bumping the range of a medium laser to 297 meters- gee, thanks. As for modules that cost 5,000 XP or more, those are 5,000 XP that can be spent on mastering my current mechs. Much of my spending is on converting XP. Once that is done, there is little incentive for the big XP/C-Bill purchases.

My mech stable is likely to be winnowed down to sharing out the modules, omnipods, and equipment on hand. No more new purchases. My lone remaining Hunchback, and my JMS6-A are feeling very nervous, now that the Doom Crows have been bought. Anything without an "H" or "C" is also feeling nervous. The Orions look at the Stalkers, and say naughty things. Rolf, The Timber Wolf is safe, but there will not be a mastery trio.

There are going to be a lot of mech bays with stripped mechs in them. The gift Centurion is standing there nude, now.

All this adds up to less income for *PGI*. As they starve me, I can't afford to pay them. As I am one of the prey who keep the ecosystem alive, the predators should be worried as well (see: World Of Warplanes).

[Deathlike]

I honestly don't know how to respond to this, but I'm going to bed soon and frankly will summarize it in 3 ways (because, I've stopped thinking).

1) The C-bill/XP ceiling has been raised quite a bit... this is a shockingly positive development since the Great Depression of 3049.

2) Getting rewarded for doing most of the work is good. Even if someone does steal the kill, I get mostly compensated for doing the work. I don't have any problems with that.

3) There are really weird payouts. There are still some good matches where I feel I should've been paid more... and then there are terrible matches were I feel like I still paid handsomely. These things shouldn't be contradictions, but they are the case IMO.

Still, it would have been nice had PGI taught newbies through tutorials on how to play the game. If even half of the basic "teamplay" stuff is executed on a regular basis, they would get a heck of a lot better rewards.

The game doesn't really reward "true" flanking though either... if there's a solo guy doing his own thing, he's probably going to get crushed and usually not rewarded well. If he's actually doing decent suppression fire (aka, doing something useful, and successfully), he's probably still going to be punished through rewards.

There is a certain fascination that exists in the Pauleconomy... hopefully this is fixable.

Edited by Deathlike, 26 October 2014 - 12:22 AM.

[Charronn]

I just think it needs to be increased back up.The game was grindy enough and now it's got a lot worse especially in the xp rewards we are getting.Mastering mechs is taking much longer and the credit return especially if your piloting an assault needs boosted.
Making it even more of a grind will also put off people with limited game time and new players.
1 last point,all this Narcing and tagging and the rewards for it need to be reigned back too,it's getting stupid.Seriously.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sable Phoenix, on 25 October 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

So back in the day, when you won a match, you could often see the reward screen displaying between 150,000 and 200,000 C-bills. If you had a really good match you could hit 250,000.

On a loss yesterday I earned 164,000 in a Atlas-S, and the match right after I earned 101,000. So yes, please just give us 1,000,000 C-Bills a match win or lose cause... Entitlement!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 26 October 2014 - 01:47 AM.

[MadPanda]

The rewards are pretty weak at the high end too if you ask me. 260k for a total massacre game (7-3-1038) is just weak. That money buys me one clan medium laser. You don't have these games every hour so the rewards should simply be better. The money you get for kills and assists need to be at least doubled.

[KrazedOmega]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 October 2014 - 01:46 AM, said:

On a loss yesterday I earned 164,000 in a Atlas-S, and the match right after I earned 101,000. So yes, please just give us 1,000,000 C-Bills a match win or lose cause... Entitlement!

It's not entitlement, it's fairness. The whole point of this new system was to reward the different roles and play styles of mechs and pilots, yet while some are seeing greater rewards for their effort, many are seeing losses. It's not balanced at the moment so the people who choose a more advantageous style, or abuse one that's currently a bit "broken" are at an advantage. For playing the same way I have since beta I shouldn't be seeing my rewards cut as much as they currently are. I've had games where I've made more cbills and xp that I would have with the old system, and losses where I've made as much as old wins, but it doesn't average out with the wild swings in match rewards that I'm getting now.

Should good play be rewarded? Yes.

Should poor play be rewarded less? Yes, but not quite as much as it is now.

Should more average play be cut back by such a great amount? No.

Edited by KrazedOmega, 26 October 2014 - 08:19 PM.

[Xetelian]

Why exactly does 'poor' play need to be PUNSIHED? If someone doesn't know how to play well they are punished enough just in the effort to learn not to die without gaming a bunch of rewards.

[SpeedingBus]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 October 2014 - 01:46 AM, said:

On a loss yesterday I earned 164,000 in a Atlas-S, and the match right after I earned 101,000. So yes, please just give us 1,000,000 C-Bills a match win or lose cause... Entitlement!

But hardly anyone is earning 164k on a loss so whats your point? If the average for a loss was 164k I don't think anyone would complain so all your entitled is to your stupid opinion.

Edited by SpeedingBus, 26 October 2014 - 07:55 AM.

[Mr Beefy]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 October 2014 - 01:46 AM, said:

On a loss yesterday I earned 164,000 in a Atlas-S, and the match right after I earned 101,000. So yes, please just give us 1,000,000 C-Bills a match win or lose cause... Entitlement!

Yet another pointless reply, spewing forth ideas that not one person here has asked for.... except you.

Drama queens are so funny... veterans and new players not wanting to grind 80+ hours for three chassis isn't Entitlement.... its a full time job! Its painful and counter productive to ALL the player base, new and veteran alike. You and others can dismiss it all you want, but many games we all drop, we see the toxic effects it has on this player base. Your Idea of what Entitlement is just as painful and wrong as the very painful grind we all face right now. This is the Topic, and the Core problem many here are trying to relay to PGI by providing valid points and information. NOT by whining and being drama queens....

Further more, when you post a reply making such a claim of Entitlement regarding the numbers that others have come up with regarding the painful grind, it looks as if you should open up a sweat shop in China making NiKe products, Jordans, Apple products and pay your staff of workers $3.00 dollars a day for a 8-14 hour shift. Then you can set up a housing area for them.... Charge them 3 times the amount you are paying them for their slave wage... that way, you make a killing, and they are always in your debt. God forbid the workers ever speak up and try to change the system of Entitlement they are under.... I know right, some people just want everything for free!!!! Burn them, flame them.... They are looking for a free ride!

Edited by Mr Beefy, 26 October 2014 - 08:15 AM.

[Assiah]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 October 2014 - 01:46 AM, said:

On a loss yesterday I earned 164,000 in a Atlas-S, and the match right after I earned 101,000. So yes, please just give us 1,000,000 C-Bills a match win or lose cause... Entitlement!

So let me get this right, Joseph you were running a mech with 30% extra cbills (as the AS7-S has) and knowing you, the man who if I recall correctly used to drop $100+ a month on this game before his wife took away his credit card, you are likely running premium time, so that is an 80% increase in cbills, and you only made 164k and 101k?

Also as usual, the opposition for a rewards increase in this game comes from someone who would prefer to toss around words like entitlement like he has any idea what that means rather than make a constructive argument.

Let me quote my main argument again, and give you a chance to refute it Mallan rather than make your self look like a fool....again.

Assiah, on 25 October 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

I mean lets take your average Joe gamer, he has used up his new player extra cash, and now wants to pick up some new mechs, lets say these mechs cost 8,000,000 each, he wants 3 because he wants to master them out. Joe is not an elite player, but he is fairly average, he wins some games and loses others, sometimes he does really well, sometimes he does poorly. All in all he averages about 80,000 c-bills a match, that means he will need to spend 300 games to pick up those 3 mechs, and likely another 100-200 to put the upgrades he wants onto them. If we assume each match is about 10 mins, that means for a full 500 games he needs to log 80+ hours into the game, just to purchase 3 mechs and upgrade them. I personally think that is ridiculous, your opinion may vary.

So please tell me how telling a free player that he should spend anywhere from 60-80 hours in game before he can even just buy and kit out a medium or heavy mech chassis is productive for anyone. Please tell me how you think a player will want to stick with this game rather than leave when he figures out the time needed to become competitive while he faces down players in clan mechs they purchased with real cash as they use him for target practice. Not everyone is so fanatically loyal to this franchise Mallan, do you really want to have new players first experience with mechwarrior and battletech be that horrid grind? Do you really want new players to think of mechwarrior as a free to play game with an excessive grind or do you want them to think of it as a game based off a rich world with 30 years worth of lore?

As it stands your opinion that free players should just suck it up and slave away for just basic mechs while providing you with people to play with, now that is entitlement.

[Screech]

Got out of a match with 1 kill 4 assist on a win, got 80k. I guess I didn't bring the "correct" weapons to promote "team" play.

PGI is definitely picking winners and losers for c-bills.

[Assiah]

KrazedOmega, on 26 October 2014 - 03:38 AM, said:

It's not entitlement, it's fairness. The whole point of this new system was to reward the different roles and play styles of mechs and pilots, yet while some are seeing greater rewards for their effort, many are seeing losses. It's not balanced at the moment so the people who choose a more advantageous style, or abuse one that's currently a bit "broken" are at an advantage. For playing the same way I have since beta I shouldn't be seeing my rewards cut as much as they currently are. I've had games where I've made more cbills and xp that I would have with the old system, and losses where I've made as much as old wins, but it doesn't average out with the wild swings in match rewards that I'm getting now.

Should good play be rewarded? Yes.

Should poor play be punished? Yes, but not quite as much as it is now.

Should more average play be cut back by such a great amount? No.

Xetelian, on 26 October 2014 - 06:33 AM, said:

Why exactly does 'poor' play need to be PUNSIHED? If someone doesn't know how to play well they are punished enough just in the effort to learn not to die without gaming a bunch of rewards.

To continue on this line of discussion. When it comes to changing human behavior we have roughly two ways to do so, the first is to punish someone and the second is to reward them. I think this is a fairly basic concept and honestly there are tons of studies and other written works out there covering this so I wont retread that ground unless someone wants to discuss further. That being said, in the free to play world, you never really want to punish your players for either playing poorly or for not spending money, instead you want to spend your time rewarding players for playing well and for spending money. When a player gets punished, especially for something he feels is beyond his control, they usually get aggravated and instead of getting better or buying something. They will instead most likely choose to leave your game to do something where they wont be punished. When we as players advocate for that from the game, we advocate for smaller pops, longer wait times for drops, and less variation in game play.

So instead lets advocate for a fun and welcoming game that does not punish to new guy but rather rewards the veteran and the paying player. I mean heck as someone said earlier in this thread, if the new guys can start earning enough to purchase a mech every weekend of play, the first thing that might go through there head is "man I wish I had more mechbays" which is followed closely by "I think I'll pick up some MC to buy a mechbay".

[Mr Beefy]

Assiah, on 26 October 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

So let me get this right, Joseph you were running a mech with 30% extra cbills (as the AS7-S has) and knowing you, the man who if I recall correctly used to drop $100+ a month on this game before his wife took away his credit card, you are likely running premium time, so that is an 80% increase in cbills, and you only made 164k and 101k?

Also as usual, the opposition for a rewards increase in this game comes from someone who would prefer to toss around words like entitlement like he has any idea what that means rather than make a constructive argument.

Let me quote my main argument again, and give you a chance to refute it Mallan rather than make your self look like a fool....again.




So please tell me how telling a free player that he should spend anywhere from 60-80 hours in game before he can even just buy and kit out a medium or heavy mech chassis is productive for anyone. Please tell me how you think a player will want to stick with this game rather than leave when he figures out the time needed to become competitive while he faces down players in clan mechs they purchased with real cash as they use him for target practice. Not everyone is so fanatically loyal to this franchise Mallan, do you really want to have new players first experience with mechwarrior and battletech be that horrid grind? Do you really want new players to think of mechwarrior as a free to play game with an excessive grind or do you want them to think of it as a game based off a rich world with 30 years worth of lore?

As it stands your opinion that free players should just suck it up and slave away for just basic mechs while providing you with people to play with, now that is entitlement.

Omg..... The wife had to take away the credit card hey???? I can't stop laughing!!

[FrupertApricot]

We need to keep this going over the weekend so pgi will see monday that most players feel this way. In my ideal world using current system mods would cost half you would only need one var to master and cbills would range from 100 to 500k per match based on results of team more than it is now

[Josef Nader]

I don't get it. I haven't changed my playstyle at all. None of my mechs have TAG or NARC, I occassionally use single LRM racks but I never boat them, and I have not changed my approach to the game one bit, and I comfortably break 300,000 with premium and hero mechs and a halfway decent match. Even with non-heroes I will usually hit 200,000.

Move with your team, shoot what they're shooting, and play the objectives. The same route to victory as always in MWO.

I have noticed losses are a lot more harsh, but usually because your team didn't do any of the above things and got stomped with no pay.

[hybrid black]

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 25 October 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

hybid black,

You ain't gonna have scrubs to get your good matches on the backs of if they do not do something about the horrible grind. It is one of the big reasons we have such a small player base. They play for a bit. And then realize how long or how much it will take to get competitive and just leave..

Go get a t10 tank in world of tanks and then come talk to me about a grind....
Also when you do and see its 100 times worse then mwo and there is a huge player base then we can talk till then go away

[KraftySOT]

And seriously, so many of you are just doing it wrong.

Ive never spent a dime, ive mastered locusts, banshees, shadowhawks, jagers, hunchies, and ravens. I only have 6 mech bays (2 I got from challenges) im too lazy to multi account so I just sell mechs and rotate them (they keep their skills) and buy them back when I want them.

Granted I have almost unlimited time due to my profession to play video games, but I still probably only play MWO 20 hours or so a week, if that. A few hours during the week, couple hours on saturday, couple hours on sunday.

Theres literally nothing to spend money on, and the only reason id do that is to support PGI and its direction, if it ever gets back on track. But for ingame digital content that I can get for free with me just enjoying the product? No way. Theres no incentive for me, to ever spend any money.

The 'end game content' is almost pointless, mastering and basic arent that different, and more mech bays would be nice but they give those away about once every two months. I just missed a few challenges.

Now camo ive thought about spending money on, then I realized it was several dollars if not more than 10 for some of the patterns and colors I wanted. So thats moronic...ill never spend money on that simply because its not worth it. Its more than some mechs.

But yeah, if youre complaining about the rate at which you get Free Cake...youre kind of an *******.

And seriously I dont get why people have to have everything NOW.

The game will still be here next fall. If you cant put in 100 hours over the next 365 days....and get literally whatever you want...then I dont know what to tell you.

Have some ******* patience. Enjoy the game. Hold your collection until quirks, find something you want to use, sell everything else, and bloody well play it till the wheels fall off, then switch to another chassis.

The level of entitlement around here is just astounding. First world problems *smh*

[Mr Beefy]

Josef Nader, on 26 October 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

I don't get it. I haven't changed my playstyle at all. None of my mechs have TAG or NARC, I occassionally use single LRM racks but I never boat them, and I have not changed my approach to the game one bit, and I comfortably break 300,000 with premium and hero mechs and a halfway decent match. Even with non-heroes I will usually hit 200,000.

Move with your team, shoot what they're shooting, and play the objectives. The same route to victory as always in MWO.

I have noticed losses are a lot more harsh, but usually because your team didn't do any of the above things and got stomped with no pay.

This really isn't on topic to the argument being made here..... and it doesn't change or address the real problems that motivate bad team play, or change the death ball 80% of the games that are played right now. 30-50% EARNINGS INCREASE FOR ALL WILL FIX many issues, including toxic, c-bill exploiting game play styles played by many. It also make a still very long grind for new players and veteran players, but it is a much more reasonable one that is needed to help us all out the same. You really have not produced any facts, or hard numbers to show just how bad the grind really is for us all. There for, you really have no valid argument in the change suggested either way...

hybrid black, on 26 October 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

Go get a t10 tank in world of tanks and then come talk to me about a grind....
Also when you do and see its 100 times worse then mwo and there is a huge player base then we can talk till then go away

We do not care about WOT....in fact, I have it installed on my system, and I have played it three times in the last 6 months..... I can't even remember the last time I have played it.

If their grind is that bad as you claim it is..... then good for them, they Win the biggest Douche bag Company award this year and the fact remains, A very poor model for a F2P game.

We would like to relay to PGI, this isn't the way to do it, because we want a healthy player base, good team play, and a reasonable F2P model that makes Veterans and new players coming in alike want to stay and pay to support this game we all love. You must be holding onto the your stable of mechs and modules and feel threatened by a change of this nature.... Either that you must love the one play style mode we have in this game right now, even though we have three different types, with different primary objectives in two of them. All of you that make the argument must love the FPS death match we have right now, because if this core issue doesn't change.. it will continue to be all we have even when CW drops.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 26 October 2014 - 09:04 AM.