84 replies to this topic

[Elizander]

Scratx, on 26 October 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

No, the 7 is a multiplier to a value that itself is used in a formula that determines how much extra heat is generated. I forget the exact formula.

Then we just set Gauss Multiplier to 2,000%.

[Kreisel]

Eddrick, on 26 October 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

Can't really use Ghost Heat to penalize a weapon that only generates 1 Heat each.

All the more reason to just remove Ghost Heat from the game.

Tell that to the AC2.

Ghost heat is kinda a problem mechanic. I get the reason for it, but it's an awkward feeling fix, especially since the game already runs overly hot, just look at how unusable many stock builds are... builds which are supposed to be 'cool' in TT and cannon lore.

Honestly, in the case of Gauss rifles I am not a fan of the charge mechanic at all. It's awkward and counter-intuitive... really the problem with Gauss is never with the single Gauss... it's about doing 30 pinpoint damage to a single location. 15 is a lot, but it's not nearly the same issue. Really what I would do is force the Gauss rifle to always fire in chain fire mode. Let it be fired the moment you click the button but just never let them fire more than one at the same time. Shouldn't be too hard to program if they can make it so you can't charge more than one at a time. Hard lock it So you can't just click faster to shoot off more than one in under the chainfire time.

[Golden Vulf]

If they want to adjust Gauss Rifles, the only thing that would make a difference would be changing the way they pinpoint to the same area of the mech they shoot at.

That's kind of a whole thing though.

Also give Gauss Rifles a minimum range like LRMs.

Or remove the reticle when in close range, so you have to no-scope all your shots.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 26 October 2014 - 02:34 PM.

[Mcgral18]

KraftySOT, on 26 October 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

Uh, mouse scripts.

Not sure if thats considered cheating tho.

Macros are not considered cheating; and they still don't let you fire more than two Gauss. It's capped at 2; and locks out #3 and/or 4.

Edited by Mcgral18, 26 October 2014 - 02:29 PM.

[Murphy7]

Glythe, on 26 October 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

Wanna bet? We could add +15-20 heat for firing 2 at once. Then it would be in line with other weapons dealing 30 damage.

No, at that point it would be markedly the worst of the available options.

Extremely heavy, weapon is fragile & explosive, charge up mechanic, limited firing groups, and now heavily penalized if you do fire the maximum group.

People who suggest this need to stop drinking from toilets - that blue water is not "Star Wars tea".

[Ultimax]

Elizander, on 26 October 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

Then we just set Gauss Multiplier to 2,000%.

Or we just accept the fact that a pair of 12 to 15 ton weapons are supposed to be really powerful.

[Murphy7]

Kreisel, on 26 October 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

Tell that to the AC2.

Ghost heat is kinda a problem mechanic. I get the reason for it, but it's an awkward feeling fix, especially since the game already runs overly hot, just look at how unusable many stock builds are... builds which are supposed to be 'cool' in TT and cannon lore.

Honestly, in the case of Gauss rifles I am not a fan of the charge mechanic at all. It's awkward and counter-intuitive... really the problem with Gauss is never with the single Gauss... it's about doing 30 pinpoint damage to a single location. 15 is a lot, but it's not nearly the same issue. Really what I would do is force the Gauss rifle to always fire in chain fire mode. Let it be fired the moment you click the button but just never let them fire more than one at the same time. Shouldn't be too hard to program if they can make it so you can't charge more than one at a time. Hard lock it So you can't just click faster to shoot off more than one in under the chainfire time.

Which would mean that Gauss are working as intended, since the armor was doubled and it takes two gauss rifles to bring you the threat and pain of one of them from TT. Except without the threat of headshotting, since that was adjusted with extra internal hit points on top of the doubled armor.

So too the "Boom-Jaeger" builds, with dual AC/20s. The BOOM variants are hot and capable in close quarters; dual gauss work best at range and are often a liability in close quarters.

The problem was, the problem is, and the problem will continue to be convergence for the forseeable future. These other fixes in place (Ghost heat, limited charging groups) are poor placeholders.

[Xarian]

Gauss generates no heat, does 50% damage at 1200 meters, and has near-instant projectile travel time below 800 meters. Dual Gauss can kill a light mech in a single hit at 800 meters, which is above the maximum weapon range of most weapons.

The downside is that it will probably explode if it gets damaged. This would be a liability on a close-range weapon, but since the Gauss is a long-ranged weapon, it usually doesn't make any sort of difference.

[Prezimonto]

Aresye, on 26 October 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

The heat in battlemechs is coming from the power draw of the fusion reactor, not the heat from the weapons themselves.

Technically the gauss doesn't have a power draw, or it's very minimal over time, because it's fired from charged capacitors.

With the charge mechanic in MWO, it would make sense to have heat being generated during the charge, as that is when the fusion reactor would be ramping up for the power draw to charge the capacitors for firing.

I don't really feel gauss needs to be nerfed any more by adding a heat penalty, but if it ever is implemented, the best way I could see it being done would be having heat generated during the charge up, but adding .5-1s more time that a player can hold the charge before it dissipates.

I'd like to see each Gauss need a charge time. So if you're charging 2 for firing you need to double the charging time before you can fire. This further ruins their DPS as brawling weapons, as well as makes it more difficult to line up very long range snap shots.

Add that I'd like to see Gauss rifles only explode when taking damage while charging or holding a charge, and they'd have a pretty stiff penalty overall to using 2x at one time.

Edited by Prezimonto, 26 October 2014 - 09:18 PM.

[SkyCake]

could just make it so yuo can only charge one at a time

[Felio]

Glythe, on 26 October 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

Wanna bet? We could add +15-20 heat for firing 2 at once. Then it would be in line with other weapons dealing 30 damage.

In line with other weapons dealing 30 damage at much shorter ranges and trying to stay steady on the target for the full duration, you mean.

Gauss gets to be exempt from the guidelines of the heat penalty system, for some reason. Like it's Paul's pet build, or something.

[Lexx]

Instead of ghost heat, or only being able to charge 1 gauss at a time, how about they make it if you are charging 2 gauss rifles the chargeup time is increased.

Edited by Lexx, 26 October 2014 - 09:51 PM.

[Lord de Seis]

Gauss has had more nerfs applied to it then any other weapon in this game, give me a break lol.

Sure go ahead and put ghost heat on them, it won't matter because they only generate 1 heat to begin with. What a ridiculous post.

[ToxinTractor]

Gauss doesn't need more nerfs.. It currently actually has a decent place right now- as the "AC20" of long range you have to sacrifice a lot to make use of it- and mounting it on lighter chassis is just as risky as sticking a AC20 on it.

Im pretty sure this stigma stems from the fact you usually see gauss mounted on mechs like the jagger and direwolf who can use two of them. However at the end of the day the jager still sacrifices a lot for those dual gauss that it often can run out of ammo- not to mention its STs are really easy to peel off.

As for the direwolf- its a 100 ton tanker ship with a huge gun on the front. Of course its going to hurt when it hits you, but the blessing is it can ONLY hit one of you at a time and its really easy to flank the piss out of one. The draw backs of these two boats are well known and its easy to counter them.

[Brody319]

Have them generate a heat of 50. Problem solved

[Ultimax]

Xarian, on 26 October 2014 - 09:12 PM, said:

The downside is that it will probably explode if it gets damaged. This would be a liability on a close-range weapon, but since the Gauss is a long-ranged weapon, it usually doesn't make any sort of difference.

If you can remain at range forever, yeah sure.

That's not always the case, and when you have two Dire Wolves dueling, Gauss vs. UACs, if they are both fresh and of equal skill who wins is very likely down to the range of the engagement.

The UACs easily overpower the Gauss at closer ranges, the Gauss has complete advantage at range over the UACs, even the 5s (which have good range).


Gauss is generally weaker up close, you want to face rush Gauss - especially if you have any kind of brawl load out.

[Khobai]

Quote

Gauss doesn't need more nerfs..

Clan gauss definitely needs a nerf. Its 3 tons lighter and 1 crit slot less than IS gauss with NO downside. Having clan gauss be outright better goes against the design goal of having clan tech be "equal but different"

Clan gauss needs lower damage or a longer cooldown/recharge to balance out the fact it weighs 20% less than IS gauss.

Quote

Im pretty sure this stigma stems from the fact you usually see gauss mounted on mechs like the jagger and direwolf who can use two of them

Thats where the stigma for all weapons stems from. Pinpoint convergence makes taking weapons in multiples better than taking them singly.

In the case of clan weapons, pinpoint damage has been mostly eliminated on everything BUT gauss. Gauss remains the last bastion of pinpoint damage for clans... which is why its abused so much... but the fact its outright better than IS gauss is why it needs to be nerfed.

Edited by Khobai, 27 October 2014 - 09:34 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Mcgral18, on 26 October 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Macros are not considered cheating; and they still don't let you fire more than two Gauss. It's capped at 2; and locks out #3 and/or 4.

If macros are officially considered cheating or not, a 3rd party program firing the players weapons for them sounds like cheating to me.

[Alek Ituin]

Brody319, on 26 October 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Gauss rifles in real life generate extreme amounts of heat. As in melting the gun if not properly shielded. The projectile gets so much air resistance it melts the stuff around it. So Gauss rifles should generate a lot of heat in environments with air, but none what so ever when in an environment with no air. Manifold would be fine, but colony would generate huge amounts of heat.

The Rifle itself should generate heat through the massive charge required to activate the electromagnetic coils. Unless it's a filthy peasant railgun, in which case it can go melt itself with Ghost Heat for all I care(and it can also stop being called a Gauss Rifle).

The round generates heat, you're correct there, but it's all dependent on velocity. Spacecraft going through reentry hurtle towards the planet at Mach 25+, which is ~8.5km/s. Yes, 8.5 kilometers per second. Our Gauss Rifle only fires a 2km/s slug, it doesn't even manage hypervelocity (3km/s)... If it did however, it would be hitting for something like 50+ damage per slug.

Needless to say, if spacecraft can handle 8.5km/s without melting, I'm fairly confident that a simple superalloy barrel could easily handle a small 2km/s slug. And for the record, humans have been making superalloys since the 1940's, so they're nothing new.

[Violent Nick]

Elizander, on 26 October 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

You can ghost heat anything.

Fire double Gauss, +20 heat.

'Slap..'