66 replies to this topic

[Glythe]

This is just ridiculous. There is no reason that 4x LRM 5 should be better than 1x LRM 20+ Artemis. Can we please have some changes to unify the LRMs so they are consistent? The meta is usually a snapshot of what is broken and the income changes highlight that the LRM 20 is pathetic by comparison. You should not get more chest hits with more smaller launchers.

There are basically three options:
1) don't change it (worst option but PGI tends to love this one)
2) Nerf the LRM 5 more
3) Buff the LRM 20

While we are talking about missiles I'd like to bring up another issue. LRMs overall are pretty crap and have stayed that way since the reduced missile damage explosions change. They became extra crap when you removed the feature of Artemis to swarm for the chest. Considering the new radar deprivation module completely counters advanced target decay I think we need to look at rebuffing LRMs. Why? This game is alpha alpha and more alpha all day every day and the LRMs are a joke by comparison to the majority of other weapons.

The LRM 20 launcher weighs 11 tons when you add Artemis. This upgrade feels necessary due to the game randomly deciding to shoot your missiles into the ground & the new RD module. As a baseline you are going to need 4 tons of ammunition. You are also going to need a companion 11 ton LRM 20 launcher. That 4 tons of ammunition is pathetic for 2x LRMs 20 so you are probably going to need more like 6 tons of ammunition as a bare minimum. Compare what you get with LRMs to any ballistic weapon loadout and it is extremely clear that the long range missiles suck.

[Mechteric]

I'd rather start with making it so that not every LRM that hits you appears to hit your cockpit. Then we could look at the numbers as opposed to the current mad screen shake and blinding explosions that make chaining a bunch of LRM5's the thing to do right now.

[Widowmaker1981]

what about the fact that 4x LRM5 needs 4 hardpoints, where the 20 needs only 1?

to be honest im very pissed off at the ghost heat change on LRM 5s, its largely my fault but the only Griffin i kept was the 3M, because i liked playing it as an LRM skirmisher, and its hardpoints meant that you could do LRM15 + 3x LRM5 - and that was by far the best setup. that is no longer an option, and any LRM build is now better done on the 1N. which i sold. (i suck at SRMs and SSRMs suck)

CapperDeluxe, on 27 October 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

I'd rather start with making it so that not every LRM that hits you appears to hit your cockpit. Then we could look at the numbers as opposed to the current mad screen shake and blinding explosions that make chaining a bunch of LRM5's the thing to do right now.

if you have a problem with chained LRM5s can i suggest you equip an AMS? they will do next to nothing to you

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 27 October 2014 - 09:23 AM.

[Ph30nix]

okay 5 missiles from and LRM 5 take up the same space in the air as 5 missiles out of the 20 from the LRM20

so there is enough room on a mechs CT for X missles to impact it and cause damage, (to be simple we will say that # is 5)
so if you fire and LRM 5 then all missles will be able to hit even after spread
if you fire and LRM20 there will only be room for 5 of the 20 missles to hit so the remaining 15 will end up hitting other components.

The reason for the LRM 20 is not to cause more damage to ONE area its to cause more damage over all and to increase the # of missles that can/will hit a target after AMS/misses are taken into account.

Now they could later on have a version of the LRM 20 that fires 4 rapid salvos of 5 missles so they are close enough together to counter AMS but spaces after each other enough not cause any spread.

but currently, You pack LRM 5's if you want to concentrate where your shots go but take the risk of being shut down by AMS, your pack LRM 20 when you just want to maximize # of hits regardless of location and you want to say Screw you AMS systems. (unless your in clan mechs then AMS are going to lower your damage regardless)

Edited by Ph30nix, 27 October 2014 - 09:31 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Been messing around with a dual LRM 20 Stormcrow a bit...LRM 20's suck.

5's, 10's and 15's are all better, by far.

[xe N on]

Simply nerf all LRM. Its far too easy to score high with that weapon system.

[Tuefel Hunden]

xe N on, on 27 October 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Simply nerf all LRM. Its far too easy to score high with that weapon system.

Yes, play my way or hit the road. After all, my play style is the only valid way anyone with skill would enjoy the game.


Sarcasm off...

Edited by Tuefel Hunden, 27 October 2014 - 09:40 AM.

[Brody319]

Large amounts of 5s causes screen shakes, tighter grouping, and can create an almost constant sea of missiles.
Basically makes a mech useless while getting bombarded since it can't see.

Then because the missiles are coming almost constantly, you lose armor fast, like in an assault you can get destroyed within a few seconds.

I think it could be fixed by just having better ghost heat. Currently just putting them on chain fire means no ghost heat. Have them be much hotter than they currently are and they will be replaced. I do hate lrm swarms, currently if you get spotted early, chances are you are dead or crippled because the enemy has 3-4 missile boats with like 6 or more LRM 5s and they just don't stop raining.

[Mcgral18]

xe N on, on 27 October 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Simply nerf all LRM. Its far too easy to score high with that weapon system.

With the worst weapon system in the game.

The most easily neutered. I'm not sure your statement is correct.

[Joseph Mallan]

Actually there is one reason. 4 LRM5s reload faster than one LRM20. And a second, they can keep more preasure on the enemy by chain firing than an LRM20 can.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 October 2014 - 09:46 AM.

[xe N on]

Tuefel Hunden, on 27 October 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

Yes, play my way or hit the road. After all, my play style is the only valid way anyone with skill would enjoy the game.


Sarcasm off...

No, I realy like LRMs, but not the way they are currently. I have 3 Catapults, my LRM5 Shadowhawk and my LRM-Crow. But LRMs have become a cheap tool of cowardliness scoring on top of the risk of other (locks).

Indirect fire should be nerfed to hell. Direkt fire should be buffed to hell. That would the way LRMs would be more appealing.

Mcgral18, on 27 October 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

With the worst weapon system in the game.

The most easily neutered. I'm not sure your statement is correct.

It's only easily to neuter if you have the tools to do so. In PUG games you have not, it's pure random. You can get 3 ECM on your team or none. Or you have 3 running away from the team for solo kills ... Therefore, LRMs dominate PUG games.

But I have no problem with that. If you can beat them, join them. I really like my new 5xLRM10 crow. Minimal effort, maximal reward.

Edited by xe N on, 27 October 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 October 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

Actually there is one reason. 4 LRM5s reload faster than one LRM20.

I wish that was why, even with Clan LRM's, the 20's just spread damage ALL over the place. It's brutal.

[FupDup]

Nerfing the LRM5 isn't going to make the LRM20 cease to be bad. The existence of the LRM10 and LRM15 already obsolete it.

[Galenit]

Glythe, on 27 October 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

This is just ridiculous. There is no reason that 4x LRM 5 should be better than 1x LRM 20+ Artemis. Can we please have some changes to unify the LRMs so they are consistent? The meta is usually a snapshot of what is broken and the income changes highlight that the LRM 20 is pathetic by comparison. You should not get more chest hits with more smaller launchers.

There are basically three options:
1) don't change it (worst option but PGI tends to love this one)
2) Nerf the LRM 5 more
3) Buff the LRM 20

While we are talking about missiles I'd like to bring up another issue. LRMs overall are pretty crap and have stayed that way since the reduced missile damage explosions change. They became extra crap when you removed the feature of Artemis to swarm for the chest. Considering the new radar deprivation module completely counters advanced target decay I think we need to look at rebuffing LRMs. Why? This game is alpha alpha and more alpha all day every day and the LRMs are a joke by comparison to the majority of other weapons.

The LRM 20 launcher weighs 11 tons when you add Artemis. This upgrade feels necessary due to the game randomly deciding to shoot your missiles into the ground & the new RD module. As a baseline you are going to need 4 tons of ammunition. You are also going to need a companion 11 ton LRM 20 launcher. That 4 tons of ammunition is pathetic for 2x LRMs 20 so you are probably going to need more like 6 tons of ammunition as a bare minimum. Compare what you get with LRMs to any ballistic weapon loadout and it is extremely clear that the long range missiles suck.

Spread is the way for lrms and ecm.

Every launcher have the same spreadcircle. A lrm 5 hits 5 times in this circle, a lrm 20 hits with 20 missiles in the same circle.

Every launcher increases the spread for every launcher.

ECM inceases the spread and lockontime by 50%, but dont prevents locks.

BAP, TAG and NARC and ARTEMIS reduces spread and counters lockontime.

Now put some more spread in the indirect fired missiles and you have a great system from near pinpointdamage if you go direct with artemis and tag and no ecm, up to spreading missiles over a great location only hitting a few missiles to a mech but maybe hitting more mechs if you use indirect against ecm without any toys.

[Pale Jackal]

I'm cool with nerfing some of the secondary effects (like screen shot and view obfuscation), or buffing the LRM20 slightly.

However, the fact 4 LRM5s require 4 hardpoints does matter.

Then again, given the way some of the new Resistance 'mechs look (in terms of number of hardpoints), and with the incoming Quirks, maybe hard points are less critical for 'mech and weapon balance.

[NovaFury]

The cute thing about stream-firing LRM5s is they can, and will, get intercepted down to the last missile if the enemy has AMS, wheras swarm-firing them will not.

They've added ghost heat to 5's now however, which makes that a choice you only wish to use if AMS is in fact intercepting 100% of your missiles. LRM20s being garbage due to missile accuracy is a big problem though.

[Mcgral18]

xe N on, on 27 October 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

It's only easily to neuter if you have the tools to do so. In PUG games you have not, it's pure random. You can get 3 ECM on your team or none. Or you have 3 running away from the team for solo kills ... Therefore, LRMs dominate PUG games.

But I have no problem with that. If you can beat them, join them. I really like my new 5xLRM10 crow. Minimal effort, maximal reward.

Radar derp, Magic Jesus Box, not staying in the open for 5 seconds, direct fire weapons, positioning so the LRMs will impact harmlessly while you destroy them with direct fire weaponry.

My 6 MPL DoomCrow, even with the fact that Clan MPLs are Wubbish, does perfectly adequately. Much better than the completely mediocre Lurm builds.

[xe N on]

Mcgral18, on 27 October 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:

Radar derp, Magic Jesus Box, not staying in the open for 5 seconds, direct fire weapons, positioning so the LRMs will impact harmlessly while you destroy them with direct fire weaponry.

Again, that don't work in PUGs and especially not on several maps like Alpine or Caustic.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

xe N on, on 27 October 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

Again, that don't work in PUGs and especially not on several maps like Alpine or Caustic.

Several maps? You mean two maps...the ones you listed...and Alpine really only if you are dumb.

But no one mounts AMS, so LRMs can't be that bad.

[NovaFury]

If you're not running radar derp, start. It's night and day how you become effectively immune to indirect LRM fire.

Any cover that impedes LoS, even if it wouldn't stop missiles, now stops missiles.

Edited by NovaFury, 27 October 2014 - 10:06 AM.