637 replies to this topic

[Vervuel]

Here's how to fix it- the real problem is LRM boats acting like mobile artillery, which is not the purpose of this game. To sit behind a building just spamming LRM's while eating is kinda disgusting. So, make it 2 or 3 times normal lock time if you do not have LoS. Tag will act as a 50% modifier, decreasing non-LoS lock time by half. Narc will work as intended, making both LoS and non-LoS lock times the same. UAV's, same thing, since they are so damned easy to shoot down lol. Think this will be difficult? the Artemis system uses a similar rubric, with a buff to LoS lock time and missile spread. Just expand on this until you reach desired effect. By playing with LoS and non-LoS lock times, you can make it so that the "steering wheel underhive" cannot sit back and simply spam, they will have to advance and get a visual on an enemy mech.

[Aresye]

process, on 27 October 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

LRM 4.5
LRM 9
LRM 13.5
LRM 18

fixed ez

LMFAO! I needed a good laugh before bed. Thanks for that!

[Brody319]

In my experience over the past few days, getting spotted out in the open on any mech without super high hills or buildings to hide behind, results in a stream of missiles that if they don't kill you instantly they cripple you. The shake isn't the problem its the explosive flashes! like getting flash banged repeatedly for no reason. I'm in an atlas, they hit my chest and legs, and my {LT-MOB-25} pit is blinded by the flash?! wtf?! that doesn't make any sense. The damage is fine, but they need to generate more heat, and less blinding flashes.

Even worse is when your team has a bunch of awesome mechs, but because your lights are firestarters and ecmless ravens you get pissed because you know your team is going to get ripped apart from behind hills by missile swarms. the closest and funnest matches for me have been ones with both teams running almost no missiles beside srms. You push thinking you are going to just wreck them when their lrms can't arm themselves, and guess what, turns out only 3-4 of their mechs were LRM boats, the rest are brawlers, hiding, now your team already soften by LRM rain gets punched to death by brawlers.

one team with a bunch of ECM = win vs lrm boating teams
One team without ECM = crippled mechs all over from a distance.

[Kjudoon]

Rouken, on 27 October 2014 - 11:24 PM, said:

It may be too much to hope for an overhaul of the way LRMs work so that they are more reliable but less extreme in effectiveness. Buy hey, a guy can dream, right?

The solution is simple. There are two of them. Both SHOULD be implemented, but at least one MUST be implemented.

1. AMS can no longer shoot through scenery or other mechs. (SHOULD be done)
2. AMS only targets missiles aimed at you. (MUST be done)

Reason for boating ended. LRM heat nerfs justified.

[PitchBlackYeti]

IMO LRMs can't be balanced properly before ECM itself gets a redesign. Right now they are situational and useless if enemy ECM carriers have at least half a brain. And the only true counter to ECM at the moment is to narc the ECM carrier and kill him before he retreats. TAG does not work all that well against ECM because of sluggish lock-on time.

It's ECM that makes the LRMs either OP or useless and its ECM that wins battles, not LRMs.

[MischiefSC]

Speed up direct fire *significantly* but a nearly flat trajectory. Have them cluster tightly in direct fire, like Artemis SRMs. I'm talking 500 or 600m/s for direct fire. Have IS LRMs be faster than Clan LRMs both on indirect and direct fire. Clan LRMs have no minimum range (just reduced damage) and are 1/2 the weight. They are inherently superior for direct fire and due to lighter weight serve better in mixed LRM/laser builds. This would help balance IS/Clan with a more direct fire approach.

Conversely have indirect fire spread out even more and require TAG, NARC, or LOS. No indirect LOS, unless the person with LOS spotting for you has a command console.

This keeps LRMs useful but requires LOS or allied TAG/NARC, or command console. It makes indirect fire a method of last resort and not a complete feast/famine concept.

Have NARC last 3 minutes but fall off with 40pts of damage, plus cbill/XP bonuses. That already increased NARC/TAG use more than any NARC/TAG buff ever did.

Rewards LRM builds that do their own spotting while reducing camp behind a hill builds. This will indirectly reduce the total number of LRM builds while making them useful as a weapon used in concert with other direct fire or laser weapons instead of a boat only concept.

Edited by MischiefSC, 27 October 2014 - 11:38 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Walluh, on 27 October 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

Want to make LRMs less annoying, and make role warfare a thing outside of just getting more cbills?

Make indirect fire work like it was supposed to. You drop off the radar immediately after leaving LoS (Yes, I get that there's a module for this, it should be baseline.) so there's a legitimate need for lights actually scouting, and spotting for LRM boats. If need be, lower the cooldown on LRMs to get more DPS out on them to compensate for the fact locks break immediately upon breaking LoS of the spotter.

Yeah, wasnt that how it was going to work initially? You NEEDED the light to spot the guy to maintain info lock, otherwise, poof....

I recall them saying there wouldnt be this magical box following the target everywhere. Lights were to be the ideal spotter due to speed and better sensors and stuff.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Buffs to LRMs:
-up the damage to 2.2 (IS) and 1.8 (Clan)
-increase velocity to 200ms
-flatten arc for direct fire

Nerfs to LRMs:
-halve the ROF
-require TAG or Narc for indirect fire

My beef with LRMs is the spam and the way Indirect is handled. That's pretty much it.

[Kjudoon]

Quote

[color=#959595]the real problem is LRM boats acting like mobile artillery[/color]

That's their job.

Quote

[color=#959595]which is not the purpose of this game.[/color]

Yes, it always was.

Quote

[color=#959595]To sit behind a building just spamming LRM's while eating is kinda disgusting[/color]

Meh. Sounds like smart military tactics. Those are still valid here and rules lawyering them out is just plain stupid.

[Kilo 40]

I just have to laugh...

"Hey guys! Good news! We just made team work earn you more c-bills! TAG and NARC now give more earnings and XP, just like you wanted!!!"

couple days later

"whoa..what's up with all the LRMs? looks like they need a nerf or something..."

[Kjudoon]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 27 October 2014 - 11:36 PM, said:

Buffs to LRMs:
-up the damage to 2.2 (IS) and 1.8 (Clan)
-increase velocity to 200ms
-flatten arc for direct fire

Nerfs to LRMs:
-halve the ROF
-require TAG or Narc for indirect fire

My beef with LRMs is the spam and the way Indirect is handled. That's pretty much it.

If you're going to just turn LRMs into glorified LB10xs why bother having them at all?

[The Boz]

Kjudoon, on 27 October 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

The solution is simple. There are two of them. Both SHOULD be implemented, but at least one MUST be implemented.

1. AMS can no longer shoot through scenery or other mechs. (SHOULD be done)
2. AMS only targets missiles aimed at you. (MUST be done)

Reason for boating ended. LRM heat nerfs justified.

While I agree that AMS should NOT shoot when there's a big frikken mountain blocking a missile's path, party AMS is a good thing. This is another thing that could be split, IMO. A selfish AMS for half a ton, 180m range, shoots only at missiles that are either blind or coming at you, and a lance AMS for 1 ton, 270m range, shoots at anything in sight.

[Sorbic]

Xetelian, on 27 October 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

LRMs on my account have a ~20% Accuracy out of 700 games (and were that accurate before reset I remember).

Anyone else feel like LRMs are fine?

Are you securing many of your own locks and do you run tag? My LRM accuracy is sitting at LRM5-36.8% LRM10-40% LRM 15 33%. I don't like 20's.

Nothing stellar but 20% seems low. Unless you're lrm tubes are just an oddball tube here and there to round out builds.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Yes LRMS are fine. Thats why its the new meta for pugs

And stats are not accurate. I have 2 catapults (A1&C4) fully basic + 40k xp on them, earning CB for a 3rd to master them and only use LRM 5 on them. Iv also been running my cicada x5 with LRM5s for 2+ months now. and stats say Iv only played 12 matches with LRM5's. Stats are not right, not right at all.

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 27 October 2014 - 11:58 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

You know, the problem isn't LRM's themselves. It's the way people boat LRM's.

the LRM 5 chainsaw ect.

Put all these weapons on the largest cooldown, and you'll see a radical shift in how the weapon is used.

I'm not saying this is the right way to balance the weapon, but what I'm saying is that there are other ways to reduce the effectiveness than a straight up nerf to damage or the like.

I'm really, REALLY tired, of taking one or two LRM launchers into a mech as a long range punch, then having some ****** on the other team complaining that there were LRM's...

One of the BIGGEST problems with this game, is EVERY mech has C3 included, they're sharing all targeting information between the group, and that's allowing indirrect fire to be SUPER EFFECTIVE.

So yes, I do recognize there are PROBLEMS with LRM's... clearly there are, but it doesn't sit with the weapons system itself, but the targeting information system we have.

LRM's should require a hard, line of sight lock, UNLESS assisted by TAG or NARC. RADAR Should be LOS only, and even if the enemy is targeted by a friendly, unless the right modules are equipped to allow the shairing of targeting information, that mech should be unable to be locked by enemy LRM's.

This makes positioning all the more important to the LRM boat, as they would require 1)LOS on target. and 2)Time to lock the weapons system.

TAG/NARC in the open would increase the speed of lock, where as TAG/NARC indirrect assists past cover would simply allow the mech to be targetable. This enables these assist equipment pieces to keep their usefullness, while bringing LRM's more into line with the rest of the weapons systems.

[GumbyC2C]

If you find yourself repeatedly getting killed by LRMs, perhaps this is not the game for you.
It's not hard to find some cover (except on Caustic), run radar deprivation, run ECM, and maybe take an AMS or two along.
I like to run direct fire mechs because LRMing is kind of boring to me. But they certainly don't bother me too much.
It's very easy to see where they are shooting from, get in close, shoot their faces off, and type "HAHAHA take that you LRMing noob" into the global chat. Very few good players are complaining about LRMs these days.

Now having said that, it would be very nice if the devs could provide an alert so that I can see when I get NARC'd or TAG'd. I can see when my teammates get NARC'd or TAG'd but not myself and that makes no sense. I also can't be easily warned by my teammates since, you know, no VOIP either.

[Kjudoon]

The Boz, on 27 October 2014 - 11:43 PM, said:

While I agree that AMS should NOT shoot when there's a big frikken mountain blocking a missile's path, party AMS is a good thing. This is another thing that could be split, IMO. A selfish AMS for half a ton, 180m range, shoots only at missiles that are either blind or coming at you, and a lance AMS for 1 ton, 270m range, shoots at anything in sight.

Party AMS is the reason LRMs are feast/famine weapons. If you have people balled up protected by 14 AMS launchers, that's 28 missiles a second shot down if you look at the data on how many they can hit per second. So for me to be effective, I must have 30 tubes to leak ANY damage through and a piddly 2.2 points of damage is a joke. So I let the spammers fire, and I sit back and wait for AMS to burn off now before I fire more than a few test rounds or go after the foolish stray who gets targeted or narced. If ballistics or energy had to face such a shield, most would change weaponry to something that didn't get effected unless they just loved playing with the weapon.

That's why suddenly the LRMs start working halfway through a match after all the AMS is burned off or AMS have been shot off and the damage numbers start to climb. ANd they can get very high because the damage is spread over all the mech, not just applied to one component like those AC/Gaussboats. That's why mechs need to carry 30+ tubes because under that they just can't get any job done.

The fact there is so much whining about it is just revolting.

[Pooch]

Indirectly firing LRM's (that is, not having true line of sight to target) should give away your position to the enemy, making you targetable for the entire LRM recycle time.

If you want to play artillery, expect counter battery fire.

I endorse this as a lover of LRM's.

[Kilo 40]

Pooch, on 27 October 2014 - 11:54 PM, said:

Indirectly firing LRM's (that is, not having true line of sight to target) should give away your position to the enemy,

It does...

[Elizander]

LRMs aren't much of a problem but a lot of mechs carry it. A simple 10% reduction won't make much difference to be honest and I don't know where that percentage came from.

The problem with LRM right now is everyone has it. We would have the same problem if everyone carried Gauss Rifles (and people would die faster).

Even if no mech on the field carried more than an LRM10 people would still think it's a problem.

Edited by Elizander, 27 October 2014 - 11:58 PM.