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Stand By For A Major Lrm Nerf...


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#41 zagibu

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:58 PM

It was more balanced a year ago, when lights were mostly save from LRMs due to their speeds. LRM boats were much easier prey for them.

Anyway, I think we both need an ECM change and an LRM change. ECM should only nullify the sensors of the targeted mech. LRM indirect fire should only be possible on a tagged or NARCed target. That way, LRMs would mostly turn into long range suppression weapons, while still being useful as indirect artillery with good teammates.

#42 Kjudoon

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:00 AM

View PostKilo 40, on 27 October 2014 - 11:57 PM, said:


It does...

Gotta watch for the smoke trails. #gameawarenessisop #graphicsettingsabovelow

#43 Brody319

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:02 AM

View PostPooch, on 27 October 2014 - 11:54 PM, said:

Indirectly firing LRM's (that is, not having true line of sight to target) should give away your position to the enemy, making you targetable for the entire LRM recycle time.

If you want to play artillery, expect counter battery fire.

I endorse this as a lover of LRM's.


This. You are telling me these super advanced mechs cant ******* calculate a simple formula and figure out exactly where the enemy is?
Then add in some of the other nerfs like longer reloads, more heat on lrm 5s even on chain fire, possibly lower damage or increase lock on time for mechs not narcs or tagged or direct sight.

#44 Kavoh

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:02 AM

IF you can get them off, they are ridiculous and obnoxious. IF

I absolutely hate getting railed by them endlessly when 8/12 mechs on the enemy team are running 2-4 LRM10+s (I am looking at you mr specific lrm toting premade tonight) when my team has literally no ECM. Even with 1 or 2 ECM mechs, they were tagging and narcing so it would have only done so much. To compound the issue, it was caustic and canyon network. It's not always that bad, but thats the prime example of why they CAN be bad/overwhelming.

On the other hand, I absolutely despise USING them despite the awesome idea behind LRM systems. Locks constantly flicker back and forth wasting your time trying to lock because ECM/LoS/CaptainBlockYouInaFatlass, or they clip terrain as they make sporadic adjustments out of nowhere, and its just all around the least intuitive weapon system in the game.

When the stars do align (which they align far more and far easier for LRMs than getting a good round with other systems) I feel terrible and sickly when I just chain LRM in my MDD, a DWF or Atlas into the ground from 100-0 without losing a lock because they literally CANNOT get away from them and their ECM is occupied, dead, and/or doesn't exist.

TLDR, I feel they are insanely stupid on both the receiving and delivering end. I can't really think of any way to really nerf/buff them without breaking them in a positive or negative way. One match its ******** OP and I do 800-1000 damage in my MDD, and the next I am 200~ damage, cant get a lock for more than 1 second despite them being right in front of me, and end up getting rushed by Team Gauss.

If we touch ECM (which it NEEDS to be done in some way eventually.. its just too broken atm) LRMs will cross over into the asinine department in their current form. But if we nerf them without touching ECM, it will go full on into the "this weapon is garbage and completely useless" garden.

#45 The Boz

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:03 AM

View PostKjudoon, on 27 October 2014 - 11:54 PM, said:


Party AMS is the reason LRMs are feast/famine weapons. If you have people balled up protected by 14 AMS launchers, that's 28 missiles a second shot down if you look at the data on how many they can hit per second. So for me to be effective, I must have 30 tubes to leak ANY damage through and a piddly 2.2 points of damage is a joke. So I let the spammers fire, and I sit back and wait for AMS to burn off now before I fire more than a few test rounds or go after the foolish stray who gets targeted or narced. If ballistics or energy had to face such a shield, most would change weaponry to something that didn't get effected unless they just loved playing with the weapon.

That's why suddenly the LRMs start working halfway through a match after all the AMS is burned off or AMS have been shot off and the damage numbers start to climb. ANd they can get very high because the damage is spread over all the mech, not just applied to one component like those AC/Gaussboats. That's why mechs need to carry 30+ tubes because under that they just can't get any job done.

The fact there is so much whining about it is just revolting.

A weapon that allows several teammates to participate on a kill without risk should be vulnerable to counterplay by several teammates that are not at risk.

#46 Elizander

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:05 AM

Caustic Valley is probably the worst map for LRMs if it's conquest or assault. If it's skirmish you can at least somewhat convince your team to stay away from the volcano and fight near the hills on the edge of the map if you do not have ECM which works sometimes.

LRMs also give me flanking bonuses and assists.

Also please note what kind of LRMs we're talking about here. Clan LRMs weigh half of IS LRMs and a general nerf to both would out of line without considering the differences. Any clan mech can have LRMs as an afterthought due to the weight savings.

If you can make a chaff/flare consumable like what fighterplanes/ships have to temporarily make you immune to LRMs or lock on for like 10 seconds then we might be getting somewhere so that regular folk can recover from a mistake.

Edited by Elizander, 28 October 2014 - 12:08 AM.


#47 Kjudoon

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:20 AM

View PostThe Boz, on 28 October 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

A weapon that allows several teammates to participate on a kill without risk should be vulnerable to counterplay by several teammates that are not at risk.

It is. Constantly. There are dozens of threads that talk about it.

#48 Svetodav

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:21 AM

LRM's are ok for now. I think devs should not change LRMs until quirks adding. Quirks definitely will change many gameplay aspects so may be "LRM-problem" for "some players" will disappear by itself.

Also i oppose narc indicator. When you play group game your teammates must notice you about narc. And when you play solo - blame yourself. Solo you are. Should suffer a little.

P.S.
I'm not a LRM-boat pilot (mainly :) )

#49 Karl Streiger

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:26 AM

Funny thing is - during CB we didn't have Ghost Heat nor ECM and still i did worry less about them.

Mabye the only problem with LRMs is the Gauss ERPPC Sniper in the enemy team. WTF?!

People don't move because they fear to get a 50point Alpha into the face... they don't move they get killed by LRMs.

Do i think LRMs are fine? Nope - think they are almost worthless when firing with LOS and to powerful when fired without LOS

#50 anonymous161

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:29 AM

Just remove the whole game then they wont have to listen to us tell them that the game is broken anymore. It's obviously they will never fix it or have it properly balanced, the game is designed in a way that makes it impossible.

#51 EvilCow

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:30 AM

LRMs are fine as damage and other stats, the thing that must go is the indirect fire by simple observation. This is creating all the problems with LRMs in the PUG queue. It is very annoying when you try to have a short range fight with someone and both get pounded by any dumb LRM boat in a km radius.
Is this about fighting or about staying in cover?

Spotters should use TAG, NARC or UAVs and be plenty rewarded for that.

#52 Wolfways

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:34 AM

To fix LRM's you need to fix ECM at the same time.

Oh, and LRM's suck even if there's no ECM.

Edited by Wolfways, 28 October 2014 - 12:35 AM.


#53 Elizander

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:39 AM

Make the matchmaker take ECM into account to make sure each team has 2 ECM mechs then we might have something. A lot of typing and convincing needs to be done at the start of the round when you notice you have no ECM in order to pull off a win.

Start of game wait:

1) Look at mechs. Find no ECM Mechs.
2) Type - "Guys we have no ECM."
3) Look at map. Try to remember what locations have good cover.
4) Type - "We should fight in (x) so that we have cover and not die out in the open."
5) Check game mode - Conquest
6) Type - "Forget it, we're f'k'd."

Edited by Elizander, 28 October 2014 - 12:41 AM.


#54 BattleBunny

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:41 AM

I wonder how many of the guys on the boards this weekend got there using LRM boats?

#55 Abivard

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:49 AM

To fix LRM's you would need to fix Stupid, to bad there is no fixing Stupid.

#56 Svetodav

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:52 AM

Add some bonuses for AMS users. For example 5cb-10cb per shot down missile aiming your teammate (not you).

#57 Farix

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:54 AM

View PostKilo 40, on 27 October 2014 - 11:01 PM, said:

From Russ's twitter...

"So anyone else getting pounded by LRM's?"

"I like them having their place but I wish there was maybe 10% less LRM's per match"

Hopefully, this means that PGI will address the problems with targeting and indirect fire.

#58 King Arthur IV

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 01:01 AM

how lrm work/kill you
step by step

1 :don't use radar derp.
2: stand in open
3: get locked on
4: let enemy hold lock

here comes three final steps but best steps!!!

5: get LRM for 30min straight.
6: do not engage enemy, do not move, do nothing
7: die, maybe.

LRM only kill you if you let them chip away at you. the best tactic against them is when you have FULL armour, fight them.

#59 Xiang

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 01:04 AM

Actually, they need to fix LRMs....I am tired of having a solid lock, waiting 1 sec and still having my missles fire into the dog gone mountain in front of me, or losing a lock completely and firing off into the wild blue yonder (but normally hitting the mountain in front of me due to bad lock mechanics).

LRMs are fine for what they do, no pinpoint damage, lots of counters available to defeat them and even when you have a good lock, not every missle hits every time. The reason they are so much more effective is that the LRM boats arent getting yelled at anymore when we ask for someone to tag or narc for us now that the rewards are in place everyone and their uncle is using tag and/or narc and missles are being used more effectively.

Imagine firing your 2x ac20 or 2x guass and having 10 pts of damage miss completely and the rest ofthe damage be spread over 5 different parts of a mech. That would be like using LRMs.

In short, aside from PGI needing to fix the lock mechanic - LRMS ARE FINE!!!!!

Xiang

#60 The Boz

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 01:05 AM

Ah, yes, the 15k GXP/6M CB LRM band-aid. I've missed you.





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