637 replies to this topic

[Tombstoner]

Just buff AMS in a way that it reduces the warheads damage by a max of x%. that way a single lrm5 is still relevant along side the lrm 60.

Personally at this point i would have simply increased the targeting computer load for LRM's. making multiple LRM launches.

But i expect waht Russ has an issue with is stun lock and how LRM's love to target your CT.

[Elizander]

I do think that LRMs spread very well. Especially with torso twisting I've been able to tank for over 10 seconds while being focused by the entire enemy team with LRMs and it's led to my team winning because they had 8 mechs shooting 1 while they were being mopped up (on an Atlas or Direwoof). I've done this more than a few times when I just want to finish up a match and we're within range to do a push.

It takes time for the LRMs to kill someone but the times that it happens is that there is no tradeoff because your solo queue pug team is busy hiding and watching you die.

[PhoenixFire55]

Kjudoon, on 27 October 2014 - 11:06 PM, said:

IF this is true, I'm disgusted.

I didn't get much trouble from LRMs in any match I played over the weekend, and have had all my LRMboats pretty much wrecked from the nerf you did LAST patch to LRM5s.

But if you have no interest in LRMs being effective outside of the steering wheel underhive, just remove them from the game and give up the pretense you want the weapon.

Funny how you've been delighted every time every other weapon was about to be nerfed.

LRMs will never be effective "outside of the steering wheel underhive" due to the fact that people who got skill and can aim will use weapons that allow them to destroy whichever part of the enemy mech they want to destroy rather than have some random damage output. It goes for LRMs, it goes for SSRMs. If you make LRMs good enough for them to be just as effective "outside the underhive" with the sheer amount of that random damage or the tightness of flight pattern or the ability to go over and around obstacles or whatever, then they'll be so powerful in the "underhive" they'll make all other weapons obsolete. But I guess that's what you wanted all along.

Also, just fyi, our dear devs are playing in same said "steering wheel underhive" so I wouldn't expect any sort of balance in "overhive" anywhere soon.

[o0Marduk0o]

Add missile spread for indirect fire with LRM (without narc/tag)...
and add more cover on certain flat maps like Caustic Valley for the case you get narced...

and all is fine.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 28 October 2014 - 03:09 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Elizander, on 28 October 2014 - 02:59 AM, said:

I do think that LRMs spread very well. Especially with torso twisting I've been able to tank for over 10 seconds while being focused by the entire enemy team with LRMs and it's led to my team winning because they had 8 mechs shooting 1 while they were being mopped up (on an Atlas or Direwoof). I've done this more than a few times when I just want to finish up a match and we're within range to do a push.

It takes time for the LRMs to kill someone but the times that it happens is that there is no tradeoff because your solo queue pug team is busy hiding and watching you die.

To use a previous analogy, killing with LRMs is like cutting steak with a meat tenderizing mallet.

[PhoenixFire55]

Walluh, on 27 October 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

Make indirect fire work like it was supposed to. You drop off the radar immediately after leaving LoS (Yes, I get that there's a module for this, it should be baseline.) so there's a legitimate need for lights actually scouting, and spotting for LRM boats. If need be, lower the cooldown on LRMs to get more DPS out on them to compensate for the fact locks break immediately upon breaking LoS of the spotter.

QFT. Would also be nice to be able to high-arc dumb-fire them to a set distance and use it pretty much like a low accuracy artillery piece. Alas, I doubt our devs are good enough for anything like it, plus imagine all the whine from LRM "pro" bandwagon if your proposed changes will ever be implemented.

Quxudica, on 27 October 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

A simple nerf isn't going to solve the problem. LRM's have been on a constant never ending nerf buff nerf cycle since Closed Beta. I would not be surprised in the least if that single weapon system has received the most changes over the course of the game by a fair margin. The problem is inherent to their design, they need a complete rebuild from ground up for how they work. Primarily their Indirect fire capability needs to require the target be affect by either TAG or NARC, without either of those the user should have to have a LoS lock.

This I can't QFT enough.

[PhoenixFire55]

Kjudoon, on 27 October 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

If you're going to just turn LRMs into glorified LB10xs why bother having them at all?

When my quad LB10X DireWhale meets any other mech in a tight alley they understand exactly why I bother having them in about 2.6 seconds.

[Kmieciu]

PhoenixFire55, on 28 October 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

LRMs will never be effective "outside of the steering wheel underhive" due to the fact that people who got skill and can aim will use weapons that allow them to destroy whichever part of the enemy mech they want to destroy rather than have some random damage output. It goes for LRMs, it goes for SSRMs. If you make LRMs good enough for them to be just as effective "outside the underhive" with the sheer amount of that random damage or the tightness of flight pattern or the ability to go over and around obstacles or whatever, then they'll be so powerful in the "underhive" they'll make all other weapons obsolete. But I guess that's what you wanted all along.

Also, just fyi, our dear devs are playing in same said "steering wheel underhive" so I wouldn't expect any sort of balance in "overhive" anywhere soon.

Quoted for truth. With the current lock-on mechanic achieving balance is not possible. Right now the top Elo guys neither take LRMs nor AMS. They simply ignore it, just like Streaks. LBXs and small lasers. They are simply non-threat.

But If we increased the LRM speed so much that JagerXII or Heimdelight consider using them, then the LRMs will become so powerful that they will dominate the lower echelons of Elo.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Tombstoner, on 28 October 2014 - 02:47 AM, said:

Just buff AMS in a way that it reduces the warheads damage by a max of x%. that way a single lrm5 is still relevant along side the lrm 60.

Personally at this point i would have simply increased the targeting computer load for LRM's. making multiple LRM launches.

But i expect waht Russ has an issue with is stun lock and how LRM's love to target your CT.

Then I hope Russ vastly shortens the blinding lights and vastly reduces the cockpit shake. Some is good, Earthquake and Lightshow Simulator: 2014, not so much....

[Kmieciu]

PhoenixFire55, on 28 October 2014 - 03:19 AM, said:

When my quad LB10X DireWhale meets any other mech in a tight alley they understand exactly why I bother having them in about 2.6 seconds.

Unless it's a 5xUAC5 DireWhale that will drill right through you because he's got double the DPS.

Edited by Kmieciu, 28 October 2014 - 03:25 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

BattleBunny, on 28 October 2014 - 12:41 AM, said:

I wonder how many of the guys on the boards this weekend got there using LRM boats?

Quite alot judging by the compared averaged scores of top 15 Awesomes and Battlemasters vs Victors and Banshees etc.

[PhoenixFire55]

Kmieciu, on 28 October 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

Unless it's a 5xUAC5 DireWhale that will drill right through you because he's got double the DPS.

Its an even fight up close, I can torso twist even if very little to save my CT and he needs to look at me all the time to sustain his DPS. If he doesn't his DPS is far worse than mine. Same way Atlas DDC/S with SRMs and LBXs tears the UAC5 Whale up close every single time if used properly. It is all about how you use your weapons/mech. "Meta" is only meta because it is good in all or nearly all situations.

[Kilo 40]

Kjudoon, on 28 October 2014 - 03:05 AM, said:

To use a previous analogy, killing with LRMs is like cutting steak with a meat tenderizing mallet.

and the mallet only hits 1/3 of the time.

[PhoenixFire55]

Kjudoon, on 28 October 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

Ballistics make people rage.

PPCs make people rage.

Poptarts make people rage.

This is not a valid reason for a nerf hammer on...

That is the truth.

Kjudoon, on 28 October 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

...the weakest weapon in the game.

That isn't.

[Widowmaker1981]

PhoenixFire55, on 28 October 2014 - 03:38 AM, said:

That is the truth.



That isn't.

Its true. Flamers are worse, as are SSRMs. IS pulse lasers are about equal

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 28 October 2014 - 03:44 AM.

[MadPanda]

Russ is on an island. The increase in LRM is direct result of his "Rewards 2.0". The weapon system is fine.

[PhoenixFire55]

Widowmaker1981, on 28 October 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

Its true. Flamers are worse, as are SSRMs. IS pulse lasers are about equal

Totally explains why we see more mechs sporting AC2s, AC10s, MGs, LBX2s, LBX5s, UAC2s, UAC20s, SLs than said LRMs. Yeah, right.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kilo 40, on 27 October 2014 - 11:01 PM, said:

From Russ's twitter...

"So anyone else getting pounded by LRM's?"

"I like them having their place but I wish there was maybe 10% less LRM's per match"

But RUSS SHOULD NOT MAKE A CHANGE CAUSE WE ARE NOT PLAYING HIS WAY.

And 10% 60 missiles in the air would would be 55(we don't have a LRM4 rack) 100 Missiles in the air would be 90. Russ wants US to bring less, but really cannot control that. Nerf Missiles and those using them would need to bring more to get the same results, and would likely find a way to do so.

And FYI. I'm Brawling with great success.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 28 October 2014 - 03:59 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

PhoenixFire55, on 28 October 2014 - 03:54 AM, said:

Totally explains why we see more mechs sporting AC2s, AC10s, MGs, LBX2s, LBX5s, UAC2s, UAC20s, SLs than said LRMs. Yeah, right.

Ok, valid point - the fact is LRMs are good against bads, and terrible against people who know how to play. However there are a lot of bads, so LRMs work pretty well in that respect. Game shouldnt be balanced for bads though, they should die horribly till they improve.

And AC10s (in 2s) and MGs (in packs of 4+) are good. Ill give you the other ones though, they do suck pretty badly.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 28 October 2014 - 04:03 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Widowmaker1981, on 28 October 2014 - 04:01 AM, said:

Ok, valid point - the fact is LRMs are good against bads, and terrible against people who know how to play. However there are a lot of bads, so LRMs work pretty well in that respect. Game shouldnt be balanced for bads though, they should die horribly till they improve.

How about balanced so people with bad systems have a chance? The only way I could play the game with ANY measure of success on my old laptop was by bringing an Archer({F}Atlas). 4-12 FpS makes this game almost impossible to direct fire. Second, any attacking force should have a good compliment of indirect fire, to soften enemies at range and add extra pain while I brawl. I love seeing "Have Missiles, hold Locks." Cause I know i have a chance of having 3-25 tons of extra weapons to bring to bare on you when I am pumping 70 point Alphas into you!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 28 October 2014 - 04:07 AM.