117 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 30 October 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

Cause of broken hitboxes + hardpoints + optimal blend of mobility and firepower.

And that optimal blend of mobility/firepower/durability chooses to use laser/SRM spam instead of ballistics.

The Doomcrow does as well, and Peacedoves to a lesser extent.

El Bandito, on 30 October 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

And I will not trade my Dakka Whale for any other mech.

If you weren't carrying 50.5 tons of dakka, those burst-fire ACs wouldn't seem so effective...(assuming that's your loadout).

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 30 October 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

And that optimal blend of mobility/firepower/durability chooses to use laser/SRM spam instead of ballistics.

The Doomcrow does as well, and Peacedoves to a lesser extent.

That's cause Clan ballistics suck in comparison to IS ones, duh! If Clan ACs were FLD, then you bet your last C-Bills the Timbie will be on it.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 30 October 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

That's cause Clan ballistics suck in comparison to IS ones, duh! If Clan ACs were FLD, then you bet your last C-Bills the Timbie will be on it.

They also suck in comparison to Clan lazors, unless boated on a Dire Whale.

[Ultimax]

Felio, on 30 October 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

high pinpoint FLD.

I wish every time someone posted this phrase, MC or CBills would be deducted from their account.

[Alek Ituin]

Ultimatum X, on 30 October 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

I wish every time someone posted this phrase, MC or CBills would be deducted from their account.

Start with MC, then move on to C-Bills.

[DarthPeanut]

You cannot be seriously suggesting IS ballistics need more nerfs.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

I'd honestly love an option for IS mechs to have "Burst fire standard AC's" that work like the standard Clan AC option.

I want to run a shadow hawk with an AC5 that peppers damage like in the novels damn it.

[Postumus]

Autocannons are fine. The AC/20 and Gauss are the only two that give you high alpha pinpoint hits, and the AC/20 at least has severe range, velocity, weight and size issues. You can't use an AC/20 with an XL engine unless it is in a vulnerable arm location, which restricts the speed of mechs that carry it. The AC/20 is also much less efficient than, say, an equivalent weight in SRMs. All of the other autocannons require you to expose yourself and face the enemy directly in order to get full damage, due to their lower damage and high rate of fire. This is such a disadvantage that 'dakka' builds are basically useless in competitive/high level play. Also, the idea that ghost heat doesn't affect AC's is a little off base - I don't know if you remember when dual AC/20 builds could fire simultaneously, multiple times in a row, but it was intense.

Gauss, on the other hand, is an issue, but only because you are seeing mechs that can carry more than one of them, and fire them both together to hit a single pixel on an enemy mech. Change the Gauss charging mechanic to only charge one at a time, and problem solved.

Edited by Postumus, 30 October 2014 - 07:32 PM.

[Davegt27]

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If they're "better than they should be" then why is the overall most effective mech in the game a laser-and/or-SRM-puking 75 ton heavy?

Hey-- I resemble that remark---just for that I am going to start inserting these things in where the sun don't shine fins first

To the OP I had to take down my Dakka Wolf because it got nerfed, I could only do one thing to make the forum crybabies happy that is to put boring lasers on my Mech

I take out my Beam Wolf and the first time I use it I get 1400 damage (and it's not the pilot) it got nerfed after that but still 1400 damage!

I would never come close to that with my POS Dakka Jager
With Dakka you react you hear the sound and have a chance to pull back Lasers I call whispering death
Beam Wolf

Edited by Davegt27, 30 October 2014 - 08:39 PM.

[Khobai]

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What's the problem with ballistics, really? The only ones that are remotely overpowered are the isAC/20, isGauss, and cGauss. If anything, most of the ballistics need to be buffed.

This. The IS AC/20, IS Gauss, and Clan Gauss are the only overpowered ballistics, and only when equipped in pairs.

The Daishi-B side torsos also need negative quirks that increase its ballistic cooldown. I figure +7.5% ballistic cooldown on each B side torso would do the trick.

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The AC/20 and Gauss are the only two that give you high alpha pinpoint hits, and the AC/20 at least has severe range, velocity, weight and size issues

Single AC/20 and single Gauss are fine. But dual AC/20 and dual Gauss are definitely NOT fine. The only way medium mechs are ever going to be playable in the long run is to balance out 30+ pinpoint damage combinations. Especially the ones that have little or no heat... at least triple PPC on the Awesome is balanced by its tremendous heat. But dual AC/20 heat is easily manageable and dual Gauss has no heat at all.

Edited by Khobai, 30 October 2014 - 08:54 PM.

[Kain Demos]

Postumus, on 30 October 2014 - 07:30 PM, said:

Change the Gauss charging mechanic to only charge one at a time, and problem solved.

Not just no, **** no.

[Y E O N N E]

Dual AC/20 is fine. It stacks penalties on top of penalties to run, and if you let it get you then you only have your lack of situational awareness to blame.

I have never seen an AC/40 'Mech be successful on his own merits, myself included. It's always down to the other team being worse players as a unit than your own team.

[Khobai]

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Dual AC/20 is fine.

Its fine when the meta is slanted towards heavies and assaults like it is now. But thats NOT what we want. We want mediums and lights to have a place in the game. And weapon combos like dual AC/20 and dual gauss discourage that. The only way we can have a balanced meta is to tone down pinpoint damage.

Also remember the King Crab is also coming out next month... and thats definitely going to throw dual AC/20 balance into question. Because suddenly dual AC/20 is going to be mounted on a chassis which has nearly twice as much armor and heat dissipation as any existing chassis that can use dual AC/20. Its going to be AC/20 warrior online.

Edited by Khobai, 30 October 2014 - 09:04 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

There is nothing even remotely OP about an AC/40 Jager or Cataphract. Their armor is paper-thin, they are slow, they have insanely short range, they have to run XL, the ammo is taking up lots of space and is easily struck with a critical, and they generate massive amounts of heat when in operation.

All that in trade for 40 pin-point damage on one location.

It's a one-trick pony and it's a trick that relies on the allied team doing well or the enemy team doing poorly in order to work at all. If you're getting fragged in your fancy-pants Commando by one, well....you are doing it wrong.

[Khobai]

Quote

Their armor is paper-thin

75 armor is paper thin? What?

Try playing a commando. Thats paper thin armor.

[Pjwned]

Ammo explosions need to matter more, and so does critical damage as an indirect result.

[Pjwned]

Khobai, on 30 October 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

Its fine when the meta is slanted towards heavies and assaults like it is now. But thats NOT what we want. We want mediums and lights to have a place in the game. And weapon combos like dual AC/20 and dual gauss discourage that. The only way we can have a balanced meta is to tone down pinpoint damage.

Also remember the King Crab is also coming out next month... and thats definitely going to throw dual AC/20 balance into question. Because suddenly dual AC/20 is going to be mounted on a chassis which has nearly twice as much armor and heat dissipation as any existing chassis that can use dual AC/20. Its going to be AC/20 warrior online.

I'm not really sure how you expect light/medium mechs should handle getting shot by 2 gigantic ballistic weapons, unless the problem is more about the pinpoint damage converging on 1 spot.

Edited by Pjwned, 30 October 2014 - 09:15 PM.

[Alek Ituin]

Khobai, on 30 October 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

Also remember the King Crab is also coming out next month... and thats definitely going to throw dual AC/20 balance into question. Because suddenly dual AC/20 is going to be mounted on a chassis which has nearly twice as much armor and heat dissipation as any existing chassis that can use dual AC/20. Its going to be AC/20 warrior online.

So you'd penalize a stock build for a Mech specifically designed and built around those two AC/20's?

How 'bout no.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 30 October 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

75 armor is paper thin? What?

Try playing a commando. Thats paper thin armor.

I play Locusts as my primary, dude, don't even try to tell me what's paper thin. I've been in many matches with you, and you have a tendency to make predictable, circular motions. That's why you're getting blasted by AC/20s.

And that number isn't telling the whole story. You have to strip significant armor from the legs and head to make it work and still move at a speed that is quick enough to get you into the AC/20's optimum firing range and have backup weapons. That armor usually comes from the legs and head, both of which are easy targets on a Jager.

Finally, the XL by itself makes the 'Mech an easy kill...especially a Jager.

[Rehl]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 30 October 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

The closest thing in lore to IS ACs are giant mech-sized rifles that I forget the term for, which nobody uses anymore because they were obsoleted by autocannons.

mmm.... Long Tom. Speaking of mech-sized guns, are we ever gonna see the Hollander ingame?