273 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

MischiefSC, on 01 November 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

So I can take 4 AC5s instead of 2 gauss, so that's 20pts PPFLD instead of 30 - which I can then do again 1.66 seconds later instead of 4.75 seconds later.

I can snap fire at that passing light for those 20pts instead of having to charge for 0.75.

If that light passes me 1 second after I fired I'll probably get a shot at him with my 4xAC5s. I will not get the time with my 4.75 second delay with the dual gauss.

UAC5 DW destroys Gauss DW in starebattles. For one, gauss isn't going to be able to aim with the constant shake. For another I'm doing 4x the damage, literally, in the same timeframe. The whole point of the UAC5 DW is that it will win any and every staredown with anything that isn't another facemelter. You can't turn a DW enough to protect your CT; In the time you are literally lining up your second 30pt shot I'll be passing 120pts of damage to your CT. So you'll do 30pts in the same timeframe that I've done 120. Even if some of that spreads a bit if we're talking pilots of equal skill the guy with the UAC will win every one of those encounters, and do win them. It's why you don't see a lot of gauss, save as killstealing builds or in group queue on DW.

I don't want to just throw meaningless numbers back and forth - go do it. Go load up a gauss build and run it, whatever mech you want. Try a single, try a double. A Cent with 1x Gauss and 1xERLL isn't a bad sniper choice for a Centurion if you're needing to level them up and is rock solid gauss practice with more mobility than a DW.

Try a DW gauss build. Go 'dominate' with it. After you find you're losing more than you're winning or at best breaking even, go run a 4x or 5xUAC5 one. You may not get as many kill shots but you'll do stupid damage which in turn drives more wins as your teammates eagerly 'secure' your kills.

Consistent performance vs situational. Go do it. If you turn out to be god-tier with gauss and mop up the floor with all those pansy top-tier competitive folks and their lasers and AC5s, good on you. Show us how its done, change the meta for real and show that a change is needed.

More likely I expect you to see exactly what everyone is already talking about.

your ac 5's are PPFLD? where on which build? clan AC's are not PPFL, and eyspecially not on a light emch, stop talkign stuff thats plain wrong.

Now you come to the staredown again where I already told you thats dual gauss done wrong. And stop talkign about your dmg is important thing thats plain nonsense a cored and destroyed CT is all you need, not an entirely stripped mech, and your UAC build will rarely fast and efficiently kill a twisting mech.

[MischiefSC]

Lily from animove, on 01 November 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

your ac 5's are PPFLD? where on which build? clan AC's are not PPFL, and eyspecially not on a light emch, stop talkign stuff thats plain wrong.

Now you come to the staredown again where I already told you thats dual gauss done wrong. And stop talkign about your dmg is important thing thats plain nonsense a cored and destroyed CT is all you need, not an entirely stripped mech, and your UAC build will rarely fast and efficiently kill a twisting mech.

On a Jag or Phract, the only other gauss boats for AC5s PPFLD. Is your argument that on Clan mechs the 2xgauss is OP? So one build on one mech? Every other time it's fine?

So go do it. If gauss are so OP, go run them and show us all what's up. You can core a CT as fast or faster with boated clan UAC5s. Way, way faster with boated clan lasers - ask any TW.

How about this - ask someone like heimdlight which is better; a laservomit TW or a gauss DW. I've been killed by him in competitive tournaments and he was running a TW. Admittedly there's a more to it than just damage; broken jj animations, speed/maneuverability, etc. I mention him as someone you've brought up earlier. Can he wreck face in a gauss DW? Sure. Situationally with the right team to support him. I see him in pugs periodically and he's generally in a TW though.

Why would he do that if the gauss DW was pure EZ-mode superautokill ninja? Pre-PPC speed nerf he was god-tier with the Direstar; since then?

LAZORS. Lazors and AC5s/UAC5s.

Damage is hugely important btw, especially in pugs. Not streak-splatter style damage but damage to CT/ST, like what you get with UAC5s. Sets your killstealing puggies up for success. No better way to luer your timid teammates out from behind your back than to dangle a mech with stripped armor in front of them.

Win/loss > KDR. Both for making cbills and just flat out being 'better'. Gauss is a killstealing weapon and that's not a bad thing. Mistaking it for peak meta is just wrong though.

Edited by MischiefSC, 01 November 2014 - 03:07 PM.

[Aresye]

MischiefSC, on 01 November 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

I saw what you did there.

I say the same thing to people flipping out about LRMs. The difference is that with LRMs you can run 3 bad matches and get 1 really, really good one (NARC buddy on Caustic) and so in terms of game experience that's ALL BAD. You've got 3 matches where you sandbagged your team in River City so everyone on your team had a bad experience and then the guy who drops on a team with no ECM on Caustic gets NARCed and vaporized by you and 5 other LRM boats on your team and the other team has a bad game.

I wasn't trying to call you out with my comment. I was just trying to make a joke how most of the complaints people have with the game are usually by people that haven't even tried running whatever it is they're complaining about.

[Lily from animove]

MischiefSC, on 01 November 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

On a Jag or Phract, the only other gauss boats for AC5s PPFLD. Is your argument that on Clan mechs the 2xgauss is OP? So one build on one mech? Every other time it's fine?

So go do it. If gauss are so OP, go run them and show us all what's up. You can core a CT as fast or faster with boated clan UAC5s. Way, way faster with boated clan lasers - ask any TW.

How about this - ask someone like heimdlight which is better; a laservomit TW or a gauss DW. I've been killed by him in competitive tournaments and he was running a TW. Admittedly there's a more to it than just damage; broken jj animations, speed/maneuverability, etc. I mention him as someone you've brought up earlier. Can he wreck face in a gauss DW? Sure. Situationally with the right team to support him. I see him in pugs periodically and he's generally in a TW though.

Why would he do that if the gauss DW was pure EZ-mode superautokill ninja? Pre-PPC speed nerf he was god-tier with the Direstar; since then?

LAZORS. Lazors and AC5s/UAC5s.

Damage is hugely important btw, especially in pugs. Not streak-splatter style damage but damage to CT/ST, like what you get with UAC5s. Sets your killstealing puggies up for success. No better way to luer your timid teammates out from behind your back than to dangle a mech with stripped armor in front of them.

Win/loss > KDR. Both for making cbills and just flat out being 'better'. Gauss is a killstealing weapon and that's not a bad thing. Mistaking it for peak meta is just wrong though.

you still don't twist do you your ac 5is are crap, why laservomit because you can deliver 40+ damage within aroudn one second, you uac 5's can't do that for the same tonnage as lasers. You CAN core CT as fast given you see the CT, which a good pilot will try to deny you.

time to exposure is a key part in MWO and uac 5's are not good at this.

[Dimento Graven]

All you clan UAC apologists are just so full of shite.

The ONLY, ONLY ************* 'mech in the entire game that can deliver 1100+ damage in under 2 minutes is the clan UAC boat.

Yeah, just keep up with the lies and the red herrings and all the other bullshit, but if there is ANY weapon that's 'broken' in this game, it's the goddamned clan UAC.

Proof is how common THOSE are, as compared to any other build...

Period.

[FupDup]

Dimento Graven, on 01 November 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

All you clan UAC apologists are just so full of shite.

The ONLY, ONLY ************* 'mech in the entire game that can deliver 1100+ damage in under 2 minutes is the clan UAC boat.

Yeah, just keep up with the lies and the red herrings and all the other bullshit, but if there is ANY weapon that's 'broken' in this game, it's the goddamned clan UAC.

Proof is how common THOSE are, as compared to any other build...

Period.

That's a Dire Wolf problem, not a Clan UAC problem. The Dire has 50.5 tons (or more, if armor stripped) to spend on weaponry. It can boat a metric crapton of guns and almost any build you make on it has the firepower of a battle station. 50.5 tons of guns hurts people, hard, regardless of what those guns are. Lasers, missiles, Gauss, ACs, PPCs, used in whatever combination the user feels like. A mountain of dakka and pewpew.

How often do you see Clan UACs used to that effect on mechs other than the Dire Wolf? Here's a fun experiment: Try mounting one Clan UAC of your choice on a Clan mech other than the Dire Wolf, and report back with how many times you broke 1100 damage with that setup.

Don't judge weapon balance based on the performance of one specific outlier mech.

[Mcgral18]

Belorion, on 31 October 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

That isn't dual gauss of today. I think that it from a triple gauss video. Dual gauss can't cockpit shot with one hit like that.

Dual gauss can indeed one shot fully armoured heads.

15% of crit damage is transferred back to the IS. 2.25 damage per crit. That means 2 crits will one shot (and there's a guaranteed 5 crits in the head:


So, 17% chance for dual Gauss to one shot, since 14% for 2 crits and 3% for 3 crits.

Dimento Graven, on 31 October 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

Dual gauss is broken?!?!

I want to call you names.

No, what's broken are the clan AC 'mechs, capable of racking up over 1200 points of damage in less than 2 minutes.

THAT is a "more" broken mechanic...

You'd never see that in today's gauss builds.

Ever.

Dimento Graven, on 01 November 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

All you clan UAC apologists are just so full of shite.

The ONLY, ONLY ************* 'mech in the entire game that can deliver 1100+ damage in under 2 minutes is the clan UAC boat.

Yeah, just keep up with the lies and the red herrings and all the other bullshit, but if there is ANY weapon that's 'broken' in this game, it's the goddamned clan UAC.

Proof is how common THOSE are, as compared to any other build...

Period.

Yes, so OP you have to mount 40 tons of them to be moderately effective at spreading boatloads of damage.

[MischiefSC]

Lily from animove, on 01 November 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

you still don't twist do you your ac 5is are crap, why laservomit because you can deliver 40+ damage within aroudn one second, you uac 5's can't do that for the same tonnage as lasers. You CAN core CT as fast given you see the CT, which a good pilot will try to deny you.

time to exposure is a key part in MWO and uac 5's are not good at this.

So load up on Gauss and take us all to school. I'm not going to trade anecdotes with you; I'll let in game performance speak for itself. It's like the guy who said that slowing down PPCs would create a terrible AC10/PPC meta that would ruin the game - which, of course, didn't happen.

Put up time.

[MischiefSC]

FupDup, on 01 November 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

That's a Dire Wolf problem, not a Clan UAC problem. The Dire has 50.5 tons (or more, if armor stripped) to spend on weaponry. It can boat a metric crapton of guns and almost any build you make on it has the firepower of a battle station. 50.5 tons of guns hurts people, hard, regardless of what those guns are. Lasers, missiles, Gauss, ACs, PPCs, used in whatever combination the user feels like. A mountain of dakka and pewpew.

How often do you see Clan UACs used to that effect on mechs other than the Dire Wolf? Here's a fun experiment: Try mounting one Clan UAC of your choice on a Clan mech other than the Dire Wolf, and report back with how many times you broke 1100 damage with that setup.

Don't judge weapon balance based on the performance of one specific outlier mech.

I have a lot of fun with 2 of them on my TW. 2xUAC5, 4xCERML, 6 tons of ammo, TC2.

Is it as deadly as the laservomit? No, but it's a lot more fun for pugs. It does well too; especially for cbills. Can put up 1k damage and 140 or 150 match scores on a solid game.

I wouldn't say it's better than the CERML/LPL scalpel effect though. Not for driving the win.

[FupDup]

MischiefSC, on 01 November 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

I have a lot of fun with 2 of them on my TW. 2xUAC5, 4xCERML, 6 tons of ammo, TC2.

Is it as deadly as the laservomit? No, but it's a lot more fun for pugs. It does well too; especially for cbills. Can put up 1k damage and 140 or 150 match scores on a solid game.

I wouldn't say it's better than the CERML/LPL scalpel effect though. Not for driving the win.

If you put a normally mediocre gun on the best heavy overall mech in the game, of course it's gonna get you good scores. There are very few Timber builds that aren't able to kill robots, because it's such a versatile and amazeballs chassis.

PS: That Mad Cat build's defining feature isn't the 2 UAC/5, it's the 4 CERML. The CERML can carry pretty hard.

[MischiefSC]

FupDup, on 01 November 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:

If you put a normally mediocre gun on the best heavy overall mech in the game, of course it's gonna get you good scores. There are very few Timber builds that aren't able to kill robots, because it's such a versatile and amazeballs chassis.

PS: That Mad Cat build's defining feature isn't the 2 UAC/5, it's the 4 CERML. The CERML can carry pretty hard.

Nah, 2xUAC5s with the TC2 are actually pretty boss with the cooldown5 on them. It's about 18DPS with both of them for short bursts and with practice they stay on target well. Plus the impulse/flash on hits make it exceptional for the brushback. You rain it on a DWs face and odds are better than 50/50 they'll turn away or back up, giving you time to fade.

It's a hit/fade build and when you catch some poor SOB out in the open you can chew huge chunks off.

Try it. It's a fun niche build, like 2xLB10Xs and 4xMGs on a Jag. It's not bad - when you're used to it.

Not peak meta but that's a solid niche for the UAC5s for clans. Brushback, short bursts of high DPS on a build that can hit/fade. It runs well in pugs and decent supporting laser builds in group queue. Have a go at it.

[FupDup]

MischiefSC, on 01 November 2014 - 07:39 PM, said:

Nah, 2xUAC5s with the TC2 are actually pretty boss with the cooldown5 on them. It's about 18DPS with both of them for short bursts and with practice they stay on target well. Plus the impulse/flash on hits make it exceptional for the brushback. You rain it on a DWs face and odds are better than 50/50 they'll turn away or back up, giving you time to fade.

It's a hit/fade build and when you catch some poor SOB out in the open you can chew huge chunks off.

Try it. It's a fun niche build, like 2xLB10Xs and 4xMGs on a Jag. It's not bad - when you're used to it.

Not peak meta but that's a solid niche for the UAC5s for clans. Brushback, short bursts of high DPS on a build that can hit/fade. It runs well in pugs and decent supporting laser builds in group queue. Have a go at it.

I did actually use that build while grinding Mad Cats. It did okay but it wasn't anything to write home about. I prefer my pewpew and whoosh whoosh.

[MischiefSC]

FupDup, on 01 November 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

I did actually use that build while grinding Mad Cats. It did okay but it wasn't anything to write home about. I prefer my pewpew and whoosh whoosh.

To each their own. The laser build always feels so.... sterile to me. Not as fun to play. I do wuv me some dakka but the DW is like waddling around in a steel pig.

[FupDup]

MischiefSC, on 01 November 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:

To each their own. The laser build always feels so.... sterile to me. Not as fun to play. I do wuv me some dakka but the DW is like waddling around in a steel pig.

I don't like the Whale either; I prefer the "sub par" Peacedove equipped with a seemingly derpy loadout of 4 LPL, a TC2, and a whole bunch of dubs.

[YueFei]

FupDup, on 01 November 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

That's a Dire Wolf problem, not a Clan UAC problem. The Dire has 50.5 tons (or more, if armor stripped) to spend on weaponry. It can boat a metric crapton of guns and almost any build you make on it has the firepower of a battle station. 50.5 tons of guns hurts people, hard, regardless of what those guns are. Lasers, missiles, Gauss, ACs, PPCs, used in whatever combination the user feels like. A mountain of dakka and pewpew.

How often do you see Clan UACs used to that effect on mechs other than the Dire Wolf? Here's a fun experiment: Try mounting one Clan UAC of your choice on a Clan mech other than the Dire Wolf, and report back with how many times you broke 1100 damage with that setup.

Don't judge weapon balance based on the performance of one specific outlier mech.

That's really the crux of it. DWFs don't have the option of packing a bigger engine, or a STD engine. So they've got light-weight clan XL that leaves a LOT of room for guns of all kinds.

Getting caught in a DWF's gunsights is going to be painful no matter what he's packing, unless the guy driving it simply can't aim.

[Glythe]

Double Gauss should have 3/4 the ghost heat that firing double AC/20s generates....It's too good and that is why it is so popular.


On the topic of other ballistic builds needing ghost heat we really need to do something about the 5x UAC 5 because that too is a ridiculous build.

[Aegic]

Double Gauss almost always means NOM NOM TASTY SIDES PRECIOUS!

[YueFei]

Glythe, on 01 November 2014 - 09:57 PM, said:

Double Gauss should have 3/4 the ghost heat that firing double AC/20s generates....It's too good and that is why it is so popular.

It can be countered by superior DPS for the same tonnage investment because it has a rather low DPS per ton. It's not unbeatable, and it's not like the only thing that can beat dual gauss is another robot using dual gauss.

Quote

On the topic of other ballistic builds needing ghost heat we really need to do something about the 5x UAC 5 because that too is a ridiculous build.

It's a buzzsaw but one that even a humble HBK can survive if you get behind cover within a couple seconds of being shot at. I mean, just steer towards cover and then press W/A/S/D randomly while flinging your mouse all over the place, you'll be fine. Human reflexes aren't instantaneous, the shooter can't immediately react to your movements, so the damage is gonna spread all over the place.

[Damien Tokala]

because you complain, i'm going to bring more dual gauss. because it gives you so much displeasure, i'm going to keep using it, until you break down, cry and beg me, even bribe me to stop using it. once i recieve a mad dog in any shape or form, then, and only then will i stop with the dual gauss. i run this to protest against the elitist with such privileged early access, just because they can spend excessive amounts of money and not suffer with their bills like us average joes. if you are in a mad dog, i will target you. if you attempt to defend that mad dog, i will drop you. if you are in a gold mech, i will drop you. if you are in a phoenix mech, yes, i will drop you.



and just like the chat here says... you were warned.

[HAWC 86]

Please PGI, fix all Weapons.
I want to play with Barbie dolls.