227 replies to this topic

[Darlith]

Rarely are my deaths anyone's fault but my own. Oh the situation may be made worse by my team mates and the games horrible lack of communications options. (Please just give me a non-spamable button that tells me team "Help something is using me as a target practice) But in general I can track most of my deaths back to my own bad choices or just bad luck. (12 mechs target you during the charge you tend to go boom regardless of if your team then stomps them)

However there are a couple times I blame my team or portions thereof like...
-Our three assults are all standing back trying to lrm the enemy to death, and two of those mechs make lousy lrm boats (I understand the stalker, but why oh why is the direwhale with a single lrm 10 or 15 standing there instead of trying to bring his real firepower to bear)
-Two of our lights decided to run right into the main enemy force like they are yoda on speed and get whacked immediately, the remaining light is an ecm sniper that ran to the other side of the map and waited until everyone else was dead before repeatedly shooting into the side of the mountain
-The team hides from the rain when a good push would end the enemy, then ******* when thier 12 good mechs roll over the 6 remaining damaged ones complaining "LRMs are overpowered"
-And really any one of a number of other situations that show up in the solo queue all the time, many of which I am just as guilty of at times, like charging off gung ho into the enemy only to notice my team stayed behind (Eek), or I get tunnel vision firing at the enemy and fail to notice my team all wandered off (double eek)

[Abivard]

The average person will encounter those less intelligent then themselves 50% of the time.

[Willard Phule]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 November 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

Only time I blame my team for my death is when I read it was a TK.

I haven't had to blame my team in a while. Though I did take quite a bit of rear fire last night with no enemy in my flank...

Not that it hurts to be able to say "watch your fire" over voice comms......

But, still, in the solo queue...you really have no idea what sort of people are going to end up on your team. Seriously.

The thing that's killing me is the changes to BAP. OMG. It's a cheap tax to pay to shut down ECM at 350m away.....and yet, the newbs in the solo queue STILL aren't using it. And then they ***** when they get Lurmed to death from behind ECM cover....

[Mudhutwarrior]

Belorion, on 05 November 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

This is something I have notice in many games, that I am completely flummoxed by. You are charging in with your lance, and at just a moment before engagement they scatter like cockroaches, often going off to a random location where there are also enemies to get killed alone. My only guess here is that they have a complete lack of situational awareness. They didn't know they were with 3 other people when they diverted, and they didn't know there were three other enemies next to the one they did decide to engage.

Man that's a regular deal for me in assaults.

Full on fear of push.

[Carl Wrede]

CelticCross, on 05 November 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

Why is it always the "best" players that seem to die first?

Obviously, it isn't, but they would like to think that they are. If only it wasn't for the "noob team" they were stuck with, they'd be snuffing out the Clan Invasion by themselves. Or so they believe.

Just got ridiculed by one of these "experts". He was spouting the usual diatribe of how "the team" was crap and was the sole cause of his demise in the first few minutes. I called him on it and he proceeded to talk crap about how my use of cover while my weapons cycled was "cowardly" and that I should "get out and fight instead of hiding", despite me taking on an assault lance by myself and causing 600+ damage. My match score was also almost twice his.

I would find it hilarious if it wasn't so constant. Seems every game the pile of dead guys just starts hurling BS statements about how bad the rest of the team is. Maybe it was a bad matchup. Maybe there were lots of newer players. Maybe stop to think before typing out profanity-laced insults. Maybe take a look in the mirror?

/rant

He must have been a Clan pilot obviously

[Flapdrol]

Sometimes a teammate will start ranting you're all idiots while you were facing a well organised 8 or 10 man group, come on, there's no way to win something like that.

[GumbyC2C]

If only there was some sort of technology PGI could integrate into the game that would allow PUG players to coordinate via voice communication. Some sort of Voice Over Internet Protocol...

[Sadist Cain]

My favorite one is the one who will charge headlong into the enemy with his lance, getting utterly wiped out in the process. Then ***** at all the assault mechs for not being there xD
Usually about 2-3 mins in on conquest, gets me every time.

[The Boz]

If I die because a teammate opened up an can of alpha on my rear armor (even if I survive it), or a teammate blocks my retreat without doing anything useful (like a brawler trying to get in on the PPC/Gauss/ERLL snipe war), I'll definitely call them out on it.

[MountainCopper]

I take it out on the team. Maybe on too many occasions... But most times, for ill plays which happen way too often and imply that no learning of any kind is happening.

"Hey, that one was a bad decision for the last 100 times, but this time it will work..." No map awareness, not one thought wasted if moving into that area is good or bad. Players don't forward information they have about what and how many enemies are located on the map. And a complete absence of understanding even basic tactics.

I'll stop here, but this list goes on. And these are the surroundings, in which I am supposed to improve my ELO? It's impossible; part of the reason being, that the match is lost most times when one or two players of the same team are dead. Something players do manage to achieve during the first 2 min and I have no control over...
The taunting response of "You're in the same ELO-bracket" isn't exactly a valid one, since the MM will throw players with a substantial ELO-difference together if the summed-up team-ELOs are roughly equal.

I try to give advice. I really do try to direct the team away from making the biggest missteps, like trying to storm a fortified position the enemy team is already located in. Or to not walk out into the open with little or no missile cover.
But most times, it's wasted breath. The players who would need advice the most left the match before you could address them with a helpful thought.

Mentioning the Dunning–Kruger effect was a very good point concerning this discussion thread. A scientific fact I learned about twice during the last few weeks.



After reading some content of this discussion, I will try to blame the team less often. But, more often than not, it is criticism that is justified based on the performance I have to witness.

Edited by GoldenFleece, 06 November 2014 - 06:15 AM.

[NextGame]

CelticCross, on 05 November 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

Why is it always the "best" players that seem to die first?

Obviously, it isn't, but they would like to think that they are. If only it wasn't for the "noob team" they were stuck with, they'd be snuffing out the Clan Invasion by themselves. Or so they believe.

Just got ridiculed by one of these "experts". He was spouting the usual diatribe of how "the team" was crap and was the sole cause of his demise in the first few minutes. I called him on it and he proceeded to talk crap about how my use of cover while my weapons cycled was "cowardly" and that I should "get out and fight instead of hiding", despite me taking on an assault lance by myself and causing 600+ damage. My match score was also almost twice his.

I would find it hilarious if it wasn't so constant. Seems every game the pile of dead guys just starts hurling BS statements about how bad the rest of the team is. Maybe it was a bad matchup. Maybe there were lots of newer players. Maybe stop to think before typing out profanity-laced insults. Maybe take a look in the mirror?

/rant

(Unfortunately) MWO is a team effort and in any team of 12, rambo or group, there are 12 players doing something wrong.

[Sethliopod]

GoldenFleece, on 06 November 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

I take it out on the team. <snip>

Curious, Golden, do you do it in All Chat or Team Chat? Do you do it when they are already dead, or when they are still trying to play?

As I think many of us can agree, our win/loss rating is near 50/50%, is it really all too often or more like sometimes. If it really is a majority of the time that teams are bad, it's irrational to expect the world to change for you. You can, of course change yourself.

edit: My quick napkin math says that just about every game is going to have a team that loses, and being that there are only two teams, it's likely it will be your team about half the time. I think it's best to get used to it, or don't play pugs.

Edited by Sethliopod, 06 November 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[Sethliopod]

Abivard, on 06 November 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

The average person will encounter those less intelligent then themselves 50% of the time.

And continue to think they are smarter than 85% of the people they meet.

[Violent Nick]

CelticCross, on 05 November 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

Why is it always the "best" players that seem to die first?

Obviously, it isn't, but they would like to think that they are. If only it wasn't for the "noob team" they were stuck with, they'd be snuffing out the Clan Invasion by themselves. Or so they believe.

Just got ridiculed by one of these "experts". He was spouting the usual diatribe of how "the team" was crap and was the sole cause of his demise in the first few minutes. I called him on it and he proceeded to talk crap about how my use of cover while my weapons cycled was "cowardly" and that I should "get out and fight instead of hiding", despite me taking on an assault lance by myself and causing 600+ damage. My match score was also almost twice his.

I would find it hilarious if it wasn't so constant. Seems every game the pile of dead guys just starts hurling BS statements about how bad the rest of the team is. Maybe it was a bad matchup. Maybe there were lots of newer players. Maybe stop to think before typing out profanity-laced insults. Maybe take a look in the mirror?

/rant

To be honest, it totally depends on the scenario and that's the problem. It could either be that he was aware of the situation and made a move expecting that his team would see the same and act (say for example he popped a UAV and shouted 'ISOLATED ENEMY LANCE OVER HERE!!' and rushed in to keep them pinned for you guys to make ground on them). Then again, he could have just been crap. Without VOIP it's always gonna be hard. I find a lot of it comes down to the mindset of people involved. I have felt the protagonist's pain in this respect and know how frustrating it is. On the other hand, I've seen so many people rush off and die for nothing. Working as a scout, sometimes this is also just plain good or bad luck..

Can't really say players are great for surviving longer. People who hide at the wrong time are painful to play with and often ignore the dead when they have a perfectly valid point/advice. Your point about doing more damage etc is a good one. Sometimes I like to snipe, even in an assault as you can keep firing for longer. Have won many games this way scoring most damage, but even in the middle of those have had criticism. Once I flanked Canyon in a Direwolf.. Had a guy tell me I was a **** in the first minute.. I slaughtered a whole lance in the 6th minute. One guy who I've seen a few times even singles me out.. water off a swan's back. Ignore it.

I have spoken..

Edited by Nick86, 06 November 2014 - 09:08 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 November 2014 - 04:02 AM, said:

Man that's a regular deal for me in assaults.

Full on fear of push.

You know that fear is your brain over riding your body's urge to be an idiot right?

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 November 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

You know that fear is your brain over riding your body's urge to be an idiot right?

It's been my experience while solo dropping that you can often get the lemming herd to move just by pew pewing even at thin air. It's almost as effective as getting Charlie lance on the enemy team to chase your Firestarter halfway across the map.

[nitra]

Heh , this is sorta unrelated but related at the same time ... on caustic there was a lance consiting of a direwolf centurion stormcrow and a light . they were pushing around the caldera focus firing wam bam thank you mam ...

i manged to get a good lil view of the diewolfs rear ct and alpha him twice thus killing him . also engaged and hammered on the cent some before the storm crow noticed me, so i with drew ..


anyways through out the rest of the match this player kept screaming about how his team, "had this" if they hadnt tked him.

and kept shooting him in the back, he was releantless about it .

so when the game finally eneded i checked the score board and sure enough the player screaming about being tk.d by his team was the direwolf that attributed to, two of my kills.


whats really amusin about this, is how his team failed to tell him that he got alphaed in the rear by the enemy team and not them .


regardless i beleive alot of the frustartion is due to lack of information in the game at times .

[Kain Demos]

Another scenario that has pissed me off enough to say something after I've died is when I'm in a Dire Wolf and people start calling for a push (especially if we're stalling around the entrances to Mt. Doom) or even specifically calling out the assault lance for cowering instead of leading from the front only for me to do just that and no one follows and they just watch me get focused down 12 to 1 in a hail of everything.

Every time they called for an assault to lead the charge and I've responded only for them to watch me die I've raged in chat afterwards and the response is always silence.

[riverslq]

ShinobiHunter, on 05 November 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

I gotta say, it irritates me when players do this. Honestly, unless you were one of the very last alive, it is absolutely your own fault that you died. You made a mistake somewhere or didn't recognize what your team was doing, etc. If people would own up to that it would make them a better player IMO. You can't learn when you don't accept that you made a mistake.

good attempt at making a generalization. however, if your team gets bumrushed, or pugs go out one by one, does it really matter what 'mistake' you made? you're going to die either way.


Let me add,
You are Not James Tiberius Kirk!

Edited by riverslq, 06 November 2014 - 01:53 PM.

[ShinobiHunter]

riverslq, on 06 November 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

good attempt at making a generalization. however, if your team gets bumrushed, or pugs go out one by one, does it really matter what 'mistake' you made? you're going to die either way.


Let me add,
You are Not James Tiberius Kirk!

Very true. However, if you didn't make a mistake or have horrible luck, you should be one of the last ones alive. Sometimes I have just had my team crap out on me and there was nothing I could do. So I'm not talking about wins here. This is mostly directed at the players who do something stupid in the first few minutes and die, then blame their team. Just my 2 cents though, I suppose.

I have no clue who James Tiberius Kirk is, so I'd say you're right one that one