105 replies to this topic

[Damon Howe]

Not to come down on peeps, but as good as the "all of us in one group" idea sounds, it's not going to fly. People want their individuality and it took PGI 2 years to implement tags that mean nothing in the first place - I highly doubt they'd allow for more than 1 tag, and most of us would outright rather wear the [IRON], [SoR], [ISGM] etc tag than a "unified" tag.

Secondly, while we may be a merc unit +90% of the time the SoR will be fighting for the FRR. And our standing bylaws forbid double-tagging. Our tags are our badge of honor - accept no substitutes.

[Jarl Dane]

Damon Howe, on 25 November 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

Unless I'm mistaken, we have a Company practice on Fri or Sat around 8pm EST. They're trying to start practices on the FRR Hub so we have more opportunities to communicate. Not sure if they'll have 12, but you'll probably be able to find them.

Which day? And what are the chances you'll have 12?

[Damon Howe]

Dunno on either, I'm not in command of that Company (...and I'm quite stuffed on turkey and too lazy to look it up ).

[Richard Warts]

Mech The Dane, on 25 November 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

In. That. Case.

Who wants to do a 12 man scrimmage this Friday or Saturday evening NA timezone?

I might be able to, what time were you thinking?

[Abivard]

Perhaps I was in error about the Ego's.

[Kamikaze Viking]

Seems I'm late to this party.

I think that the FRR as a whole is already the "super unit" that covers us all. Then our Competetive Units as they currently stand are who act as practised fire teams, filled out with the Casual units and solo players.
This allows us to keep our identities which helps morale.

As already stated, many of the more active players from each unit do already play together on a regular basis and hence know how to work with each other. With some groups working together better than others. And we know there are a few here and there that dont get along. We have already self sorted into groups that work well together.

Why need to add an extra layer of complexity?

I have read many good ideas in this thread that could be viable, BUT we must wait until CW Phase 2 hits before we know which one will work. And then once we get that working, Phase 3 may require us to adjust again depending how that is implemented.

TL;DR - Great stuff. Everything seems to be covered. Lets Wait for PGI to implement it before stressing out over this more.

[Jarl Dane]

Tabu 73, on 27 November 2014 - 08:34 PM, said:

I might be able to, what time were you thinking?

Saturday, 9pm MST

[Appogee]

We don't know at this time the specific pros and cons of switching units, contract periods, etc ...

Until we know the rewards for loyalty, and the costs of switching, everything is conjecture.

[LiGhtningFF13]

I also would like to see some periphery states soon.

[SRC472]

Problem still is: 12 mans in the FRR hub are very rare. We are almost never only FRR people, we have to invite "outsiders" in just because there are not enough FRR people online at the same time. I can't remember when I last saw an entire 12man from a single FRR unit besides training (and also that is rare).
So our CW drops will be filled with whomever has a FRR tag - if I understand that correctly. I remember seeing a SoR 10man a few days ago...I can give you the screenshot about what happened.
Having 12 FRR hub people online all day long seem hard to me already. How shall we do that in our small units?
But If differences between the FRR hub units are really such a problem at last on command scale (seems not to be a problem for the regular players, we play in mixed group all the time) and this is the reason we cannot cooperate, please don't wonder when people start to switch to other factions or even the clans.
In a FRR-"All-Stars"-unit we could have enough room and enough players for competitive, semi-competitive and casual 12mans. Now every unit as a few of each kind (so it looks to me) who can play in groups of 4-6.

Might be that I am mistaken, I play mostly in the European timezone. So maybe the FRR is very present in NA-timezones. So please correct me if I'm wrong. Still the hub looks empty most of the time.

Edited by SRC472, 28 November 2014 - 03:33 AM.

[Damon Howe]

Kamikaze Viking, on 27 November 2014 - 10:06 PM, said:

TL;DR - Great stuff. Everything seems to be covered. Lets Wait for PGI to implement it before stressing out over this more.

FINALLY! Hail Satan!

[Magna Canus]

SRC472, on 28 November 2014 - 03:30 AM, said:

Problem still is: 12 mans in the FRR hub are very rare. We are almost never only FRR people, we have to invite "outsiders" in just because there are not enough FRR people online at the same time. I can't remember when I last saw an entire 12man from a single FRR unit besides training (and also that is rare).
So our CW drops will be filled with whomever has a FRR tag - if I understand that correctly. I remember seeing a SoR 10man a few days ago...I can give you the screenshot about what happened.
Having 12 FRR hub people online all day long seem hard to me already. How shall we do that in our small units?
But If differences between the FRR hub units are really such a problem at last on command scale (seems not to be a problem for the regular players, we play in mixed group all the time) and this is the reason we cannot cooperate, please don't wonder when people start to switch to other factions or even the clans.
In a FRR-"All-Stars"-unit we could have enough room and enough players for competitive, semi-competitive and casual 12mans. Now every unit as a few of each kind (so it looks to me) who can play in groups of 4-6.

Might be that I am mistaken, I play mostly in the European timezone. So maybe the FRR is very present in NA-timezones. So please correct me if I'm wrong. Still the hub looks empty most of the time.

SRC is right. Each unit, by themselves, does not have the numbers (neither Casual nor competitive) to field enough protection for our worlds by themselves. The FRR must work together to both maintain the integrity of our borders as well as expand to new worlds.

If we do not join forces in an organized defense force we will loose worlds and fair weather players will jump ship the moment it looks like the FRR is done for. The competitive teams alone cant be there all day to defend the borders, we need warriors online in sufficient numbers around the clock in order to maintain or defenses. We need to use a common tag so that we can pull those defenses together from know warriors working together on the same TS with as few random elements as possible.

If we cant work together in the most optimal fassion necessary because of a 4 letter in game tag then we might as well make some popcorn while we watch the FRR burn.

Edited by Magnakanus, 28 November 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[Grim DeGrim]

I'll be the one burning things. . My opportune time has come:

The Isengrim are recruiting competitively minded FRR Pilots. What did this mean? That you want to be in a like minded group that utilize meta and follows drop command orders. The goal: compete with the highest echelon of 12 man drops.

Let me be clear. This is not an "elitist" group. We get rolled 12 zip just like everyone else. It is about wanting structure and having a desire to compete at the top. And we will get there.

As for our numbers, we regularly have 10, and event nights have often fielded 24 (18 is a good average).

Edited by Grim DeGrim, 28 November 2014 - 07:35 AM.

[Gevurah]

This is all mute until the official unveiling of phase 2/3 CW.

Current understandings:
- You can't be everywhere at once
- Some worlds will be higher value than others - i.e. worlds of industry
- Maps will be of the assault /defend variety with bases and objectives. Win components will be a lot more than 'who can kill the other guys better', though that will still be very useful.
- You can only bring 4 mechs comprising no more than 240 tons.
- No clan mechs allowed for faction-affiliated units like ourselves; IS only.

I see a *LOT* of units bringing out full lances of timber wolves and dire wolves game after game, match after match. They're in for a rude shock when CW hits and they realize those piloting hours were effectively wasted on mechs they can't use.

We really need a lot more to see about how CW works before we can really plan on how to defend against it. I think, however, it's very fair to assume that it will NOT be like the community-held tournaments that are basically 12v12 deathmatch. As such, those tactics are going to likely fall by the wayside to teams that are focusing on a more 'PTFO' (Play the ****ing objective) strategy.

Edited by Gevurah, 28 November 2014 - 08:53 AM.

[Magna Canus]

Gevurah, on 28 November 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

This is all mute until the official unveiling of phase 2/3 CW.

Current understandings:
- You can't be everywhere at once
- Some worlds will be higher value than others - i.e. worlds of industry
- Maps will be of the assault /defend variety with bases and objectives. Win components will be a lot more than 'who can kill the other guys better', though that will still be very useful.
- You can only bring 4 mechs comprising no more than 240 tons.
- No clan mechs allowed for faction-affiliated units like ourselves; IS only.

I see a *LOT* of units bringing out full lances of timber wolves and dire wolves game after game, match after match. They're in for a rude shock when CW hits and they realize those piloting hours were effectively wasted on mechs they can't use.

We really need a lot more to see about how CW works before we can really plan on how to defend against it. I think, however, it's very fair to assume that it will NOT be like the community-held tournaments that are basically 12v12 deathmatch. As such, those tactics are going to likely fall by the wayside to teams that are focusing on a more 'PTFO' (Play the ****ing objective) strategy.

Yes, we need more info when the time comes and the final info is out, but we also need to consider what could come and plan for circumstances and eventualities. Siting on our thumbs and doing nothing until we get hit in the face with CW will not help at all.

[SRC472]

Gevurah, on 28 November 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

I see a *LOT* of units bringing out full lances of timber wolves and dire wolves game after game, match after match. They're in for a rude shock when CW hits and they realize those piloting hours were effectively wasted on mechs they can't use.

Piloting hours are never useless. The IS players who mastered play in clan mech too, will have a better understanding for their strengths and weaknesses. If you got at least some skill, you can just switch back to your IS in 1-2games, if at all. You can switch from light to assault, so you should be able to do it from a Timberwolf to Thunderbolt. If not, all training won't help you anyway.

Magnakanus, on 28 November 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

SRC is right. Each unit, by themselves, does not have the numbers (neither Casual nor competitive) to field enough protection for our worlds by themselves. The FRR must work together to both maintain the integrity of our borders as well as expand to new worlds.

If we do not join forces in an organized defense force we will loose worlds and fair weather players will jump ship the moment it looks like the FRR is done for. The competitive teams alone cant be there all day to defend the borders, we need warriors online in sufficient numbers around the clock in order to maintain or defenses. We need to use a common tag so that we can pull those defenses together from know warriors working together on the same TS with as few random elements as possible.

If we cant work together in the most optimal fassion necessary because of a 4 letter in game tag then we might as well make some popcorn while we watch the FRR burn.

Thanks for the support Magna. I don't care for this 4 letter code and neither should you. We are all FRR. You can still stay in your units forum and all. If its really about ranks and who is in charge of the big unit people will just drop from all the FRR hub units anyway and go somewhere else (and you know what: they will be right).

Grim DeGrim, on 28 November 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

I'll be the one burning things. . My opportune time has come:

The Isengrim are recruiting competitively minded FRR Pilots. What did this mean? That you want to be in a like minded group that utilize meta and follows drop command orders. The goal: compete with the highest echelon of 12 man drops.

Let me be clear. This is not an "elitist" group. We get rolled 12 zip just like everyone else. It is about wanting structure and having a desire to compete at the top. And we will get there.

As for our numbers, we regularly have 10, and event nights have often fielded 24 (18 is a good average).

Very good guys. We 1st Hussar Strikers started playing competitive lately too. We already play a lot with you Isengrim guys. We should be able to work in a unified FRR group too, on a competitive level. We would be at least 40 competitive guys that way.
Think about it, chances for competitive FRR 12mans would rise enormous that way. We have a lot of EU players online at the same time with your Aussies.

Even without all the info about CW. Its obvious that a large player base will help a lot. This discussion should get the topic going, so when CW actually starts, we could merge in a matter of days at most.
Might still be that PGI allows us to ally with units in game too (never said anything, but they might consider it). Then we can keep it all like it is.
Just discussion should be on and "Emergency Plans" should be ready.

Edited by SRC472, 28 November 2014 - 03:55 PM.

[Texas Merc]

I am currently running for President of the Innersphere.

A vote for me and I will personally guarantee no harm will come to your planets, women or farms.

I PROMISE


Squawkingly Yours,

Cletus Tee Murk

Edited by Texas Merc, 28 November 2014 - 04:45 PM.

[Malzel]

SRC472, on 28 November 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

We are all FRR. You can still stay in your units forum and all. If its really about ranks and who is in charge of the big unit people will just drop from all the FRR hub units anyway and go somewhere else (and you know what: they will be right).

I hear what you're saying overall, but I think this is one of the key details that's getting misunderstood. It's not about a 4-letter tag. It's not about pride, or ego, or ranks and who's in charge. It's about clear communication between every member of a competitive team. The FRR all sharing an MWO tag but keeping to their own unit forums wouldn't accomplish what we want, because most of a competitive team's planning takes place outside the game, and having every member of the team involved in that planning is essential for a serious approach. Hashing out builds and tactics 10 minutes before a match doesn't cut it.

The 1RDR had a very successful competitive team until several key players unfortunately moved on to other things, and that success came from regularly scheduled practices, clear expectations, strict build standards, in-depth tactics discussions, and team-wide brainstorming on how to counter common obstacles or even specific opponents, all of which took place on our team's forum boards.

Sometimes, when we didn't have 12 RDR guys online, we ran 12s with all-stars from other units, and those games never went as well for us, even if the non-RDR guys were better pilots than our usual guys. That's because a mediocre pilot that is up-to-date with the team's standards, builds, and tactics will perform better as a part of that team than a top-notch pilot who isn't. It's like playing a 12-man with one lance that's not in your TS3 channel; that other lance might be great, but they're not on the same page as the rest of the team, and that's a huge disadvantage.

I know you guys are setting up the Hussar's comp squad, so shoot me a message if you want to talk shop. I can offer what worked and what didn't work for us.

Edited by Malzel, 28 November 2014 - 04:50 PM.

[SRC472]

Malzel, on 28 November 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

I hear what you're saying overall, but I think this is one of the key details that's getting misunderstood. It's not about a 4-letter tag. It's not about pride, or ego, or ranks and who's in charge. It's about clear communication between every member of a competitive team. The FRR all sharing an MWO tag but keeping to their own unit forums wouldn't accomplish what we want, because most of a competitive team's planning takes place outside the game, and having every member of the team involved in that planning is essential for a serious approach. Hashing out builds and tactics 10 minutes before a match doesn't cut it.

The 1RDR had a very successful competitive team until several key players unfortunately moved on to other things, and that success came from regularly scheduled practices, clear expectations, strict build standards, in-depth tactics discussions, and team-wide brainstorming on how to counter common obstacles or even specific opponents, all of which took place on our team's forum boards.

Sometimes, when we didn't have 12 RDR guys online, we ran 12s with all-stars from other units, and those games never went as well for us, even if the non-RDR guys were better pilots than our usual guys. That's because a mediocre pilot that is up-to-date with the team's standards, builds, and tactics will perform better as a part of that team than a top-notch pilot who isn't. It's like playing a 12-man with one lance that's not in your TS3 channel; that other lance might be great, but they're not on the same page as the rest of the team, and that's a huge disadvantage.

I know you guys are setting up the Hussar's comp squad, so shoot me a message if you want to talk shop. I can offer what worked and what didn't work for us.

Thanks for the offer about the competitive play advice. Sorry to hear that 1RDR has no competitive team anymore (If I understood that correctly).

Communication may be important. In our competitive drops together with Isengrim guys, we never had any problems. We simpley play together most of the time we are on together. Competitive guys stay tuned anyway about the game and the builds. So to us TS was always enought, but we didn't play tournaments of course or training, just regular drops competitive.

[Prussian Havoc]

Outstanding thread... vigorous, mutually respectful debate; the free sharing of hard-earned lessons learned; an open embrace that while PGI's specific CW nuances can't be known, it is best to call the Banners, "Sweat saves Blood," and try to best position the greater FRR in anticipation of 16DEC.



Yours would be a worthy cause for any Mercenary Unit or Lone Wolf to take up...