179 replies to this topic

[Turist0AT]

i admit i take road trips in slow mech sometimes and just walk around capping. Dont yell at me!

[Dauntless Blint]

MischiefSC, on 05 November 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

Dropping in a Dire Wolf without even unlocked Basics in River City I still got to D2 in the middle of the pack and when dropping in D2 was out of the death zone in time to avoid getting isolated and killed.

Playing a slow assault is a choice that makes that 100 ton mech a potential burden to the team. It's up to the Assault pilot to keep up with the team. Every other mech on the team is keeping up, gimping your entire teams tactics because you can't be arsed to be fast on the stick.

The moment the match is GO, you need to be moving and have the most direct route planned out in your head. Getting into position is exactly what balances the DWs massive firepower; in the same way that lights stay moving because their weakness is weak armor so their tactic needs to be not getting hit, slow assaults trade mobility for firepower and so their biggest challenge is making sure they're in position.

If you drop in a Dire Wolf on River City and you're dicking around or you take the bridge to B2 before going down to D2 or you take a meandering route or you stop to look up the 4-line to see if anyone is coming, you're going to die and die alone and the very fact that you dropped in that match means all you did was make your team start 100 tons down.

I love my Atlas. It's one of my best performing mechs and I do well in them. I'm never in the back. NEVER. Why? Because an assault pilot who hangs out in the rear is pretty much just praying the other team is all stupid every single match and is making a minimal contribution to their team.

I drop in a Dire still sometimes. I keep up. I'm not some piloting genius or have magic tricks. It's not hard - you just get into position with your team FIRST, then you shoot people. If you're out of position and still shooting you are a bad assault pilot and need to change how you play.

Saying that everyone else needs to chuck their mobility advantage, ignore isolated or lagging enemy targets, blow off targets of opportunity and just babysit you because you're in a slow assault and can't get into position on your own is selfish and a doomed tactic.

Oh, and in pugs aggressive play is what wins. Almost universally. You can't coordinate a defense in pugs - you can't respond quickly, the environment favors the attacker. If the attacker says 'Push D2, then left to D4' and everyone does it then that's it. That's all the communication they need. The defender needs to call out directions attacks are coming from, changes in position and the like. Play aggressive stick with your team and if you're in a slow mech it's your job to get yourself into position. It's always great for faster mechs, especially faster heavies, to help shepherd and cover their slowest teammates but to say that's their obligation is flat out wrong.

You are responsible for carrying your own tonnage in every pug match.

I except all of this except in the case of the DireWolf,you can have the "W" key down before the match start's and understand the best rout to take and still be hopelessly left behind if it turn's out to be a straight-up nascar race,You saw those example's of a supported DireWolf if you think throwing that away is for the greater good,good for you but you may have just thrown away half your team's damage in that one action,I'm not saying there's not bad Assault pilot's out there,of course there is but abandoning one that is doing their due diligence is somewhat nearsighted in my opinion,surely that's a fair appraisal.

(Some light's can run around a map 3 time's in the time it take's the Direwhale to complete the same rout once,faster mech's can choose the position but complain because they didn't bring the firepower to said position who's fault really?The equation is the triangle of Offence/Defence/Mobility)

Edited by CorditeJunkie, 05 November 2014 - 06:54 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

MischiefSC, on 05 November 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

Here's the thing - I can get a dire from spawn point to under the bridge by about 1 minute in and keep up with my team. Also, when playing a slow assault try to call positions to your team 'Meet under bridge then go to D2 in force?' that is likely to keep you in position with your team for when some wiggly light screams up to catch you. The guy you caught at 45 seconds in wasn't even in position with his own lance; he was dicking around in the back. He died because he didn't hustle.

If wasnt in charlie lance i would have been on that dire in 15 seconds. Most the time you dont have 1 minute.

[schmolz]

ha this thread is soo wrong its not even funny anymore =) looks like you never meet a light who knows what they are doing on river city ,lucky you!

Edited by schmolz, 05 November 2014 - 06:40 PM.

[Johnny Z]

So many topics start with opinions and I rarely get a chance to say " your wrong" but finally here it is.

My dual AMS stalker with ams range and overload, LRMs and dual erll goes exactly the same speed as a Dire Wolf.

The best that can be done when starting on that position is to head for the water and then turn and go backwards toward the cover of the buildings in D4, fireing like mad to keep the hyenas off for long enough.

When I am in a fast mech starting on the other teams side, the first thing I do is go after who ever starts in D2 regardless the weight class.

A quick lead decides many matches.

Should they change the start spots? I think it adds a challenge for the different teams myself and they shouldnt.

If the team that starts on the bottom of the map were to rush left instead of right it would be a surprise and would likely win the battle for instance.

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 November 2014 - 06:50 PM.

[Jman5]

Rouken, on 05 November 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

That Dire Wolf is behind schedule. However, just playing around in the training ground I was able to reach that firing position in 34 seconds with my Timber Wolf. When I did that run on my Dire Wolf using the most direct route I could I also reach the corner in about a minute but at 34 seconds I was out in the middle of the river, I hit the water at about 21 seconds.

Stormcrow gets there in about 29 seconds untweaked Ferret in about 24.

Unless your friends turn around to help you, you either get shot in the back or you turn around and take about 2 mins to reach the corner.

Not much of an issue for anything but a Dire Wolf but I'm starting to think you're better off to dig in and try to take as many with you as you can.

Changing skirmish spawns to the same as assault would probably help.

Also for comparison, the Warhawk had moved beyond the line of sight of those firing positions before the Stormcrow would reach them, and could fire at them until they were out of sight, it reached the corner in about 42 seconds.

I think people overestimate how much speed holds back the direwolf. Do this next time you play your direwolf. Walk behind an atlas, banshee, or other 60-ish KPH mech. Watch how long it takes to get 200 meters separation in a straight line. It takes a lonnnng time. Think about the difference in terms of meters/second.

63 kph = 17.5 m/s
53 kph = 14.7 m/s

Going 10 kph faster you're only losing 2.8 meters every second in the direwolf. In a game of big stompy robots that's a hair's breath. All things being equal, in 42 seconds of both of you sprinting, you've only lost 117 meters on your 63 kph buddy. That's still in IS small laser's optimal range.

Edited by Jman5, 05 November 2014 - 07:02 PM.

[Hillslam]

Koniving, on 05 November 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

Anyone remember back when the game was reasonably more true to Battletech, where slow mechs at 64.8 kph were viable, Dragons were kings, and 97 kph was hella-fast?
...
"Want a mech that can level a city....but take a day to reach it?"
Back then Atlases went 48.6 kph stock.
And were typically customized to go 32 kph...
....and were still unstoppable gods of the battlefield to be feared unless 3 to 4 players converged on him simultaneously.
Even then, it could knock you down and keep on trucking as if you were a bowling pin.

I miss those days.

This +1000

We've completely lost all sense of mass, inertia and scale. Its like we're all pigmy sized caffeine addled mongooses running jumping and careening our way around the pinball arena with glee.

*sad*

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Jman5, on 05 November 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

I think people overestimate how much speed holds back the direwolf. Do this next time you play your direwolf. Walk behind an atlas, banshee, or other 60-ish KPH mech. Watch how long it takes to get 200 meters separation in a straight line. It takes a lonnnng time. Think about the difference in terms of meters/second.

63 kph = 17.5 m/s
53 kph = 14.7 m/s

Going 10 kph faster you're only losing 2.8 meters every second in the direwolf. In a game of big stompy robots that's a hair's breath. All things being equal, in 42 seconds of both of you sprinting, you've only lost 117 meters on your 63 kph buddy. That's still in IS small laser's optimal range.

The Dire Wolf is fast enough for most purposes, I think. Just not crossing the river.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Hillslam, on 05 November 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

This +1000

We've completely lost all sense of mass, inertia and scale. Its like we're all pigmy sized caffeine addled mongooses running jumping and careening our way around the pinball arena with glee.

*sad*

Ironically Dragons were only king because their mass ws bugged and set to 100 tons XD

[TheCaptainJZ]

I did actually get left behind in my new Atlas on that map. Starting moving right after loading the match, but I barely made it to the edge of the citadel like in your picture before I was dead. The rest of the team had rounded it long ago. I got shot at as soon as I hit the coast which took less than 30 seconds. We did win, probably in part because I got focused on at the beginning.

[Dauntless Blint]

Rouken, on 05 November 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

The Dire Wolf is fast enough for most purposes, I think. Just not crossing the river.

or hitting a pebble or walking uphill at a staggering 25 km an hour or less

[Jman5]

Monkey Lover, on 05 November 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

If wasnt in charlie lance i would have been on that dire in 15 seconds. Most the time you dont have 1 minute.

I mean it's a great accomplishment that you practically solo'd a 100 ton direwolf by yourself, but in an equal skill scenario, do you think you would lose to a firestarter if you were in that direwolf? Or would you cream him with a couple of big alphas?

Look at what you did. You ran ahead aggressively seeking out an unprepared enemy. You found one and you marvelously took him down. That opportunity would have never happened if you had instead double backed and escorted another lance from one waypoint to another then waited until they were ready to move. Is it right for every assault players to demand that successful players like yourself should always be there at their beck and call? That you should never move forward until you are 100% sure that every assault player has typed that he is ready to move 150 meters to the counter clockwise?

I say this because every day I see tons of great assault player who seem to have zero trouble no matter the spawn. I never hear them complain and I never see them getting caught alone. If they can get from Point A to Point B every game without trouble why can't other people? You can't just play a game assuming your assaults will die 1v1 against a 35 ton mech. That he will stand around or run the wrong way. You would never be able to do anything except escort them around if you played that way.

[The Boz]

OP leaves assaults behind and blames them from getting separated from the team?
OP is bad and should feel bad.

[kapusta11]

There's no excuse for leaving teammate that can potentially carry your entire team behind either.

[Totenxcx]

Faster mechs should join on slower mechs, not the other way around. Especially on maps like river city. I don't understand why people insist on having their assaults getting free damage trying to cross the river when c2 is a perfectly good place to fight.

Wintersdark, on 05 November 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

If you got left behind, isolated and killed? It's your own damn fault; and not because you picked a slow mech.

Fair enough, but then if you lose the match, that is your own damn fault Speedy Gonzales.

[Xetelian]

Getting left behind sucks if the enemy has anything fast coming your way. Otherwise they get all the missiles before I arrive

[Wintersdark]

Totenxcx, on 06 November 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:

Fair enough, but then if you lose the match, that is your own damn fault Speedy Gonzales.

I'm a direwolf pilot, much of the time, and when not still usually sub 80kph . Never ever faster than 100.

I'm no "Speedy Gonzales". Hence my point: if you're getting left behind, you're doing it wrong (except Alpine charlie spawn and stupid circle racing matches)

Edited by Wintersdark, 06 November 2014 - 04:00 AM.

[Captain Stiffy]

This would be way less of a problem if the game didn't intentionally spawn the assault mechs as far away and in the worst positions possible.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I hear over and over "its a team game"

except when I read these posts.

If its a team game support tail end charlie and bring the whole team into the fight.

In my view most losses come from the tryhards full speed on the carousel leaving the highest dps boats to fend while they feed their ego.

We have no way of picking our drops. Start thinking globally instead of your K/D.

[Shredhead]

Koniving, on 05 November 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

Anyone remember back when the game was reasonably more true to Battletech, where slow mechs at 64.8 kph were viable, Dragons were kings, and 97 kph was hella-fast?


"Want a mech that can level a city....but take a day to reach it?"
Back then Atlases went 48.6 kph stock.
And were typically customized to go 32 kph...
....and were still unstoppable gods of the battlefield to be feared unless 3 to 4 players converged on him simultaneously.
Even then, it could knock you down and keep on trucking as if you were a bowling pin.

I miss those days.

Rose coloured glasses much? I ate such Atlasses for lunch in my Hunchy. Terrible builds, even back then the minimum engine in an Atlas was a 325 to be competitive. And Dragons were never king. Fun and viable due to lack of mech variety, but never king. And 64 was never a viable speed in anything below 100 tons, even back then. That's the reason we crushed everything with our 75+ kp/h mechs and were accused of "speed hacking".