225 replies to this topic

[CygnusX7]

Remarius, on 06 November 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

Your solution is that I should record maybe 100 matches every week and store them for posterity?

Coincidentally I don't care your intention but in many countries recording without permission is a crime. You need to explicitly tell them you're going to do it before you start and can't do it if they refuse permission.

I get where you're coming from and I leave chat logging on in MMO games I play but thats a totally different thing.

Hate to keep using it as an example but iRacing does indeed store all chat from all races in the event of an issue. There are products out there for compressing and storing streamed chat/video.

[GumbyC2C]

Remarius, on 06 November 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

Your solution is that I should record maybe 100 matches every week and store them for posterity?

Coincidentally I don't care your intention but in many countries recording without permission is a crime. You need to explicitly tell them you're going to do it before you start and can't do it if they refuse permission.

I get where you're coming from and I leave chat logging on in MMO games I play but thats a totally different thing.

Those laws are easily solved by a change to the terms of service. Even Sony figured that out for the latest PS4 firmware which now does broadcast party chat for streaming.

[Remarius]

Mercules, on 06 November 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

So instead of dealing with the occasional frustration of "whiny kid", "Stoner Dude", and "Frothing Hate Spewer"; we would rather deal with the constant frustration of not being able to get the most basic concepts/plans/information across to our team in a timely manner?

I mean I can't type in: "8 guys from E4" fast enough to save the mech about to be ambushed.

Why? I do. At the least it gives others the time to react to the lance incoming.

Its just a trained skill to type moderately quickly. I pass locations, enemy movements, friendlies narced, sniper locations. I'm usually in group on our own comms as well so its all aimed at keeping things organised outside. Just because I'm on comms doesn't mean its an excuse to not type to others. It actually horrifies me how few people bother to type intel in games (solo and group queue).

Edited by Remarius, 06 November 2014 - 09:55 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 November 2014 - 03:45 AM, said:

The XP farmers have been fighting Voip being implemented since day one. They have lots of excuses but we can look past the smokescreen to understand why. Communications are paramount in any military engagement and as a rule those with the best commo wins.

Lets skip the bull and the stupid command wheel Ideas and move onto whats been in online games since 99'

Russ and his crew said it was in the pipeline in January. No mention made since. Sure would like to know if its still being worked on or if he has abandoned it. I have cash I want to spend here but wont until then. Just little bits of MC to justify my playtime till then and if it goes on much longer you get nothing Russ. Love the game but hate the execution to kiss the whales and NGNG arse over the new nickel players. Leaning curve is way to steep and the dozens I got to join have all left because of it. Wake up please. Sometimes during any 24hr period the server is dead. See the same faces every match.

Whilst I find your rabid anti group attitude simply disgusting-I agree with you here.
The group queue has killed off any social chatter for me as it's now 100% focus or get rolled. So bring on voip BUT and it's a big one we should have ONE QUEUE. As people keep spewing comms and team work improve the game and the evil premades have something solo players didn't, with voip you now would have what they have and no reason to split up the playerbase anymore (unless you want to ban people from making friends as well...?).
If you want what us evil people currently have-you should also get the same queue we evil people currently have.

The only concession I'd like is a separate unit channel you are put into the second you leave a match. but then unless you all drop as a group 24/7 your unit gets split up verbally when in matches, which obviously is ridiculous but would be a niggly can't change it "feature."

[Mercules]

Remarius, on 06 November 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

Your solution is that I should record maybe 100 matches every week and store them for posterity?

Coincidentally I don't care your intention but in many countries recording without permission is a crime. You need to explicitly tell them you're going to do it before you start and can't do it if they refuse permission.

I get where you're coming from and I leave chat logging on in MMO games I play but thats a totally different thing.

No... PGI records them. Other companies record their VOIP conversations through their game and ban people for breaking their CoC/ToS while on them.

[nehebkau]

GumbyC2C, on 06 November 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

Those laws are easily solved by a change to the terms of service. Even Sony figured that out for the latest PS4 firmware which now does broadcast party chat for streaming.

Again, there are LEGAL issues that PGI faces for content that they provide, these issues CAN NOT be simply waved away by changing the TOS. Given that PGI resides in Canada, where we recognize that freedom of speech must be tempered with the legal responsibility to not use that speech to promote hatred. Get over it and just keep using the available TS servers. They will figure this out in due time, if at all, and there are far more pressing things to deal with.

Edited by nehebkau, 06 November 2014 - 09:58 AM.

[Remarius]

GumbyC2C, on 06 November 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

Those laws are easily solved by a change to the terms of service. Even Sony figured that out for the latest PS4 firmware which now does broadcast party chat for streaming.

No they're not solved - they just haven't been challenged in court. There's a world of difference. Its a simple legal item that no contractual term can go against the laws of the country. The law always overrides it. Extreme example I know but ..... the TOC may say its ok to racially abuse other users for example..... but it doesn't in any way protect the company or abuser if the abused is in a country where that's illegal.

Edited by Remarius, 06 November 2014 - 10:02 AM.

[Mercules]

Remarius, on 06 November 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

Why? I do. At the least it gives others the time to react to the lance incoming.

Its just a trained skill to type moderately quickly. I pass locations, enemy movements, friendlies narced, sniper locations. I'm usually in group on our own comms as well so its all aimed at keeping things organised outside. Just because I'm on comms doesn't mean its an excuse to not type to others. It actually horrifies me how few people bother to type intel in games (solo and group queue).

I type over 60 words per minute. The issue is I am going 171kph. I literally have to take the time to slow down or come to a stop, hopefully in cover, before I can type that in. I also use a keypad and mouse and so have to let go of both of those and pound on the keyboard for half a second then reposition my hands. With VOIP it would be "Push Button and say, "Contact! E4 2 lances!" while still dodging fire and moving in to actually HELP THEM while warning them.

[Motroid]

TimberWolf87, on 06 November 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

I for one would absolutely LOVE to have an integrated voice chat (complete with its set of mute buttons of course).

It would surely do far more good than harm.

[Mercules]

nehebkau, on 06 November 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Again, there are LEGAL issues that PGI faces for content that they provide, these issues CAN NOT be simply waved away by changing the TOS. Given that PGI resides in Canada, where we recognize that freedom of speech must be tempered with the legal responsibility to not use that speech to promote hatred. Get over it and just keep using the available TS servers. They will figure this out in due time, if at all, and there are far more pressing things to deal with.

Most laws like that use the wording, "All reasonable precautions." or "Reasonable measures to ensure." Like I said, if they record the conversations and save the ones reported they have taken those reasonable steps to ensure hate speech is kept to a minimum.

[CygnusX7]

There must be something else going on here.. So much disdain for something that should have been in place from day one.
So many use TS.. so whats the difference to the end user if it's already in game and intertwined with the games functionality?

[Remarius]

Mercules, on 06 November 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

No... PGI records them. Other companies record their VOIP conversations through their game and ban people for breaking their CoC/ToS while on them.

In a way that's a better argument but do you have any idea how much capacity recording simultaneously all those matches comms would take? I'd be interested to know if any FPS game does that.

Mercules, on 06 November 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

I type over 60 words per minute. The issue is I am going 171kph. I literally have to take the time to slow down or come to a stop, hopefully in cover, before I can type that in. I also use a keypad and mouse and so have to let go of both of those and pound on the keyboard for half a second then reposition my hands. With VOIP it would be "Push Button and say, "Contact! E4 2 lances!" while still dodging fire and moving in to actually HELP THEM while warning them.

So basically you just made an excuse as to why you don't?

Its a good one but if you consider yourself at all a team player you really should be passing that intel currently.

PS: Hurrah another locust pilot!

CygnusX7, on 06 November 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

There must be something else going on here.. So much disdain for something that should have been in place from day one.
So many use TS.. so whats the difference to the end user if it's already in game and intertwined with the games functionality?

Because we can't gatekeep it....

[CygnusX7]

Remarius, on 06 November 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

In a way that's a better argument but do you have any idea how much capacity recording simultaneously all those matches comms would take? I'd be interested to know if any FPS game does that.

CygnusX7, on 06 November 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

Hate to keep using it as an example but iRacing does indeed store all chat from all races in the event of an issue. There are products out there for compressing and storing streamed chat/video.

[Mercules]

Remarius, on 06 November 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

In a way that's a better argument but do you have any idea how much capacity recording simultaneously all those matches comms would take? I'd be interested to know if any FPS game does that.

I know DDO used to do it. I'm not sure if they still do but I knew someone who went off on an epic rant during a Raid about our guild he was in, the leadership, and the members. He used some rather "inflammatory" descriptions of people and spent a lot of time threatening one of the female leaders with sexual assault. He still had access to guild boards off game and went off again because he was reported and his account was deleted. When he threatened to sue Turbine the basically told him to go ahead because they had a recording of the group VOIP and he wouldn't get anywhere legally breaking the CoC like that.

[Scyther]

To the guy who said "type your info in fast, I do" (Remarius):

-Not everyone types fast.
-While you are typing, you aren't controlling your mech
-While in the heat of battle, sometimes the wrong get keys pressed/right key does not get pressed. Delays comm.

There is a reason competitive players use voice comms over typing.

(Note: I'm not even a big fan of VOIP, just saying typing isn't a 'better' solution)

[Mercules]

Remarius, on 06 November 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

In a way that's a better argument but do you have any idea how much capacity recording simultaneously all those matches comms would take? I'd be interested to know if any FPS game does that.



So basically you just made an excuse as to why you don't?

Its a good one but if you consider yourself at all a team player you really should be passing that intel currently.

PS: Hurrah another locust pilot!

I do pass said intel, but as I said I can't get it in there in time to save them, not unless I want to run off a cliff, into a Gauss Round, Out of Bounds and die with them. It's so easy when on Teamspeak that when I PuG it makes me cry a little. Okay, maybe sniffle a bit.


I rarely take the Locusts out, although with the quirks... Check out my sig. to see what I am going around in while hitting 171kph. Turn quirk was a godsend.

[Creovex]

Gyrok, on 06 November 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

If everyone will have the mute button on...why have it?

Because there are times where you come across players like yourself and WANT to work with them and talk. We have seen it over the years with other games with built in VoIP... How many times did I find good players in a CounterStrike match when pugging? tons... just had to mute out the idiots but ended up enjoying and playing longer BECAUSE easily accessible/no effort VoIP was there...

[C E Dwyer]

Lily from animove, on 06 November 2014 - 02:11 AM, said:

if we get also a mute and ignore options for the rages and haters Voip would be great.

yup yup

Lily from animove, on 06 November 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

and a single mute button on the pilots to solve all your little issues. Not an excuse to not allow others the option to achieve some teamplay in random groups and pugs.

the mute button should be an option for text chat also, but yes PGi should be making a mute option before any in game viop is added

[RG Notch]

Mercules, on 06 November 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

Because the typing is unwieldy and broken on top of that. Start a conversation during the countdown with your teammates and it jumps from 50 to 9-8-7... as the last person gets logged in and then stomps on what you typed in. So your best time to type in questions and responses is when you are moving and it's SLOW. By the time you hash out a plan through the text system the enemy team is in position and ready to push on you and you haven't moved yet. Voice would be fast enough you could do it as you are moving.
"What's the plan?"
"I like the D3 area."
"Okay, but all our assaults are over in the F-G area they'll never get here in time."
"oh... Good point so head for F5 and work from there?"
is a lot faster in voice than typing. Also, no plan survives contact with the enemy and since you can't rapidly type while shooting and moving you can't quickly alter the main plan in text so now you might have people following a plan that is suddenly the worst thing you can do. Something like, "Alpha lance will push under and through the HPG while the other two sweep around the right side." Alpha runs into all 12 mechs and can't cry for help quickly enough or alter the other two lances circling in time to prevent a rather nasty surprise.

So what they do is show who has Coms on in the list. Then you know who might respond and hear you. Simple easy mute button in list. Those who want some co-ordination can use it and risk the players who are annoying on voice. Those who don't won't have to and we know they are not listening so won't count on them hearing it when we tell them they are NARC'd or not to go over that hill.

This still dodges the question of value for time put in. If PGI is going to expend some of their limited resources on something that even the proponents seem to admit not everyone will use it. Plus it seems again that a simple command wheel of some type would handle all of this without language barriers, or a need to mute idiots. This also dodges the fact that people can grief and disrupt and PGI won't be able to do anything about it. VOIP isn't such a simple slam dunk as people want it to be. Anyways, unless PGI can monetize it, its unlikely to happen.

[GumbyC2C]

Remarius, on 06 November 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

No they're not solved - they just haven't been challenged in court. There's a world of difference. Its a simple legal item that no contractual term can go against the laws of the country. The law always overrides it. Extreme example I know but ..... the TOC may say its ok to racially abuse other users for example..... but it doesn't in any way protect the company or abuser if the abused is in a country where that's illegal.

Yes they are. You said the legal issue is that a party must be notified that they are being recorded. That's fine. ToS needs one line that says "Your VOIP conversations are recorded and kept for X days by PGI" They are now notified. Also, if your legal issues are such a problem, why have so many other games managed to handle it?