60 replies to this topic

[Margulis Killfrenzy]

Okay I am new to the game and so far my experience is for the lack of a better word horrific. I have found the game to be highly unbalanced and it treats new players poorly it seems. The community is not bad at all with the few exceptions of folks crabing at your mech choice or that your a noob (intending insult) when in fact you are learning the game.

Now that being said I have found a great many issues with the game as a new player and an old table top player. While I know not everything from table top can translate nicely there are some aspects of the game that have been trashed that are very important. The first thing I noticed as a new player was that missles were insanely accurate. I dont just mean hey I have LOS and lock and my missiles will find you ... Its the indirect fire for a new player that just destroyes their chances. The pilot skills are very expensive and it takes quite a while to earn enough to buy some of the pilot skills to make you less of a target.

I heard missiles were worse initially from other players. This does not make their current function okay now though even though some people have just accepted them as is because they are not as bad. Sure there are trial mechs we can use but compared to the meta builds that are out there you die in seconds when you try to fight. However I think the biggest problem is the match making and changing this could fix a majority of new player blues.

If they could incorporate some form of ranking system where you could be pitted against people of similar ranking to yourself if playing alone or an average for a group if your playing with friends this would be a good thing. Simply put it would give new players a chance to play and build up before tossing them to the sharks and while the bonus rewards are nice they barely get you enough to get a weak heavy or decent medium mech for you to die in to the same issues listed above.

Now to be fair I have played the game for at least a week for at least 4 hours a day just to give it a fair shake. Overall I think I would give this game a 5 out of 10 stars in any review and I am giving it a bonus star because it is free to play. This is not a flame either I am just simply stating my frustration and what I found lacking in the game.

I ask that you please do not flame me for speaking my mind here and if you have something constructive to add without being rude please feel free.

[Koniving]

I fully agree, the missiles are incredibly accurate especially when compared to BT, but it's one of dozens of little balancing issues that I fear may never be resolved.

The use of weapons at 3 to 19 times their damage rating to time ratio with only two times armor and structure to keep you alive with between 2 and 3.4 times threshold does create a number of issues.

But, that aside... I do genuinely think they could do more for the new user experience. From proper tutorials to not trying to seed new players with 'low level veterans' would be a good start. A new player would have a significantly higher chance against other people who are just as clueless than against those that know what they are doing.

On a side note they do have a ranking system, but it accumulates to "averages" across the team with high and low-end players being pulled in to balance those averages, meaning there will always be players that know what they are doing alongside players that may feel as if they are simply there to be cannon fodder (and sometimes they are right).

[Redshift2k5]

The matchmaker does try to create balanced teams, but there is less emphasis on putting all players of a similar skill level together. The game population isn't high enough to segregate players such that a match is only populated by "new" players while other players are elsewhere. Instead, the system works to make the team as a whole equal to the other team, by taking the average Elo score for each player.

Some of the trial mechs do have some pretty competitive builds, although a mech that is a good build for one player may not be so helpful for another player.

The game can have a steep learning curve, in terms of both information as well as player skill, but we were all once just as new as you are If you have any specific questions plese feel free to ask!

It can be helpful to look for a group or unit to play with, playing with teammates on VOIP can confer a great tactical advantage if you work together and they'll be there to offer you advice and tips as you play.

[Sadistic Savior]

Margulis Killfrenzy, on 06 November 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

Okay I am new to the game and so far my experience is for the lack of a better word horrific. I have found the game to be highly unbalanced and it treats new players poorly it seems.

It is. You have a double whammy against you...you can't upgrade or customize your mech, and you are playing against people a lot more experienced. MWO has opted for the "sink or swim" method of training new players.

All I can say is it gets better after you start upgrading and customizing your first mech. You'll have to be patient. IMO, it is worth it. But there is a definite learning curve.

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The community is not bad at all with the few exceptions of folks crabing at your mech choice or that your a noob (intending insult) when in fact you are learning the game.

You will need a thick skin. But that is true of most online games. It's never been a problem for me...I am really good at ignoring people when I want to.

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Now that being said I have found a great many issues with the game as a new player and an old table top player.

So am I. I have been playing it since the 80s.

This game is the best attempt I have seen so far to replicate the table top game. But there are somethings that will just not translate well. remember, this is a real-time simulation. Table top was turn based. In addition to that, allowances have to be made for the medium (lag).

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While I know not everything from table top can translate nicely there are some aspects of the game that have been trashed that are very important. The first thing I noticed as a new player was that missles were insanely accurate. I dont just mean hey I have LOS and lock and my missiles will find you ... Its the indirect fire for a new player that just destroyes their chances.

It can be evaded if you are careful. Don't get caught in the open. Stay with your team. Hide behind buildings and other obstructions. Missiles are not the I-Win button they seem to be...you're just not yet familiar with how to avoid them yet. It comes with practice.

Missiles are not broken because the game is not designed for new players. The game is designed for experienced players. And frankly, I think you will find you prefer it that way after you pass this learning curve. I did.

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I heard missiles were worse initially from other players. This does not make their current function okay now though even though some people have just accepted them as is because they are not as bad. Sure there are trial mechs we can use but compared to the meta builds that are out there you die in seconds when you try to fight.

...if you try to Rambo it.

The solution is to avoid being Rambo. You are not the equal of the other players yet. You don't have the experience, you probably have worse equipment, and you definitely have more sluggish skills. Confine yourself to a support role until you build these things up. Find the largest group of players on your team and follow them around. Let them take the aggro and the bulk of the damage. Take potshots as opportunity arises.

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If they could incorporate some form of ranking system where you could be pitted against people of similar ranking to yourself

They do. It is called ELO. But as a new player, even the lowest level of ELO will be above you. Even the crappiest players will have better skills and equipment.

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Now to be fair I have played the game for at least a week for at least 4 hours a day just to give it a fair shake. Overall I think I would give this game a 5 out of 10 stars in any review and I am giving it a bonus star because it is free to play.

You are not qualified to give an honest review until you have played to a level where you have mastered at least one Chasis IMO. Until you have done that, you have not experienced the real game. What you have experienced so far is not the real game. It's training for the real game.

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This is not a flame either I am just simply stating my frustration and what I found lacking in the game.

I think you expected a game that is more casual than this is. This is not quake or Team Fortress...you can't just hop into it for a day or two and expect to compete. For better or worse, it's not designed that way.

[The Trumpet of Gabriel]

I strongly suggest spending some time watching the twitch or youtube channels of more experienced players. I died all of the time at first, and then after I learned a bit from watching better players I was able to contribute more and die less.

[Phobic Wraith]

I feel for ya. They new player experience is atrocious. Not as an excuse, but a little background information - this game has been going for a few years now, and some people here have been at it for the entire time. Which ends up not being several hours a day for a week, but several hours a day for years. I bet if we put our minds to it, we could have learned several instruments and languages in the time we've spent learning this game.

Yes, new players are being thrown to the wolves, and the wolves are getting better at hunting every day. I can promise that on the other side of the crazy learning curve is a great game that pulls all kinds of people together and can be really, truly, simply fun. I can apologize, not for the community, because I don't have the right - but for your experience. I am sorry for that.

We want you to be here and play this game with us. I think that this is a great game for anyone willing to put a little time and effort into it (yes a few hours a day for a week is more than a little, but you get my point). I can promise that you'll get better and the game will get better for you as you get better at it.

As for balance, yes. lots of little problems. LRMs are a constant issue and hopefully we'll get to a better place soon.

[Jody Von Jedi]

I have to agree with your sentiments. The new player experience is horrible. Don't give up on it though. I've played most every MW title before this one and this is the best yet IMHO.

Don't be in a hurry to spend your cadet bonus if you haven't already. Play the trials and until you settle on a role that works best for you. Once you've decided, you'll eventually want to purchase 3 variants of the same chassis. Owning 3 will allow you to unlock all the efficiencies (skills) for a given variant.

Friend more experienced players and drop in the group queue. Group is hard mode, but it's still a learning opportunity.

Jody

[WarPickle]

This sounds like a post from someone on an alt account who has been playing a while and reading the forums.. just sayin.....

[Flu-Epidemic]

Easy solution bro; add all the bros and sistahs who positive feedback in this thread as Friends, see them online, and see if they wanna drop with you. I'm game for friendly drops together, as i'm sure all these other sagely Mech Pilots will say the same. Make the grind a happy one!

[TheSilken]

Join a group of experienced players. They'll help train you to boost your skill, steer you towards good mechs to buy, and will often make things far more enjoyable. Just make sure that whatever group you join, if you do that is, is made up of quality players so that you aren't limiting your potential through any bad habits.

Edited by TheSilkenPimp, 06 November 2014 - 07:32 PM.

[Chuanhao]

I started playing when the trial mechs were stock and not champion. Looked forward to getting my cadet bonus and buying / customising my first. Unfortunately that was the pre quirk AWS-8Q. I continued getting terrible results, less than 100 dmg per match, until I made somemore cash for XL engine, double heat sinks, ER PPCs. And watched how others play and learn. It took almost two months being able to play just an hour each night before I could reach the 200 dmg mark. It is a steep learning curve, but theres no other game which continues the rich tradition of the TT and more for me, the TCG. It has been worth it and one year later I have a nice stable of 33 mechs across all weight classes, and both IS and Clan. Totally worth the initial pain.

still it would be better if PGI has a better plan in place to help noobs other than trial mech and cadet bonus. There is already no official user manual nor mechlab. If not for the community, the experience can be quite daunting.

[SnagaDance]

In addition, some of the trail/champion mechs are rather horrible for new players to use. I especially dislike the ones sporting a Gauss rifle as this uses a tricky firing mechanic (not explained anywhere of course) which make sit even harder to use for a beginning player. Unfortunately both the IS big guy the Atlas and the cool sounding Dragon both use it.

And then there are mechs that overheat horribly and should only be used by people with a good deal more experience of handling heat, I'm looking at you Nova and Stalker!!

Personally I like Trials like the Victor, which gives you a good taste of using a nimble Assault, or the Jenner which provides a good Light mech. The Hunchback is also good as long as you chain-fire those lasers.

Bottom line, what makes a good Champion mech does not necessarily make a good Trail mech. Unfortunately they are one and the same so finding one that works for you can be a pain.

[old grognard] Back when I started there were only 4 Trial mechs to choose from, one for each weight class. Among them that Dragon and Atlas, not the best experience, but I'm glad a persevered! [/old grognard]

[B0oN]

Hi there Margulis !

Nice having you here and instantly pointing out what so many of us oldtimers see as glaring errors/harshness in the "new player experience" besides all the oddities the game itself brings with it .

Maybe, hopefully, one day PGI will listen and separate people that are playin their first 150-200 matches from the rest of the murderous veterans with the multi-million CBills-machines as it is just not fair play against many of the players that only recently begun to play MWO and have neither the exprience with in-game mechanics nor in many instances are as savvy with their mechs as vets .

We´ve been trying hard as a community to bring PGI to change certain things, but alas, due to whichever "problems/priorities" the new player experience is a potentially very frustrating one.
All we can offer to starters here is our wealth of already gathered info, tactics and builds for all mechs, along with many very, very well community-made tutorial videos about the fine points of MWO and a multitude of units from all over the world where pople are welcome to just drop by and drop with them and get introduced into the game.

So, as you might see, the community tries to cover PGI´s shortcomings here, but still ... those first matchs after cadet bonus might be horror^^

But, don´t get deterred, there is a ton of people out there, willing and waiting to help

See you !

[Strikeshadow]

Let me start by telling you that I was a top 100 player in MW4 14 years ago and this game is similar enough that I didn't start out as a noob. So far, my k/d is awful, but I have done 400 damage in a game already and had several 3 kill games in the ~150 games I've played to date. I now understand how to avoid LRMs even without ecm using long range mechs.

I agree with the OP. I give the game 5 stars. The game is not newbie or ftp friendly. We shouldn't need to spend more time than it would take to complete the entire solo queue mission series in MW4, to even have a competitive mech in MWO. Either we spend $100s, or we play 500-600 games to have a competitive mech, unless we make excellent use of the cadet bonus - a very boring way to play as we'd need to play at least 100 games first. The trial mechs are simply not competitive being 20-30% less effective than a properly built master level mech.

Since we cannot know what mech we enjoy until we have reached the master level, the trial mechs are worse than worthless becasue we cannot build them and go see how they operate with different loadouts unless we first by them with MC or Cbills. We might think we like a trial mech, but once we really understand the game and a proper build, we learn the mechs are not what we thought from playing them as trial mechs.

I chose a Hunchback based on several youtube videos, but it is awful because it has no jjs, no ecm, it has low survivability, and its right torso main weapon(s) hardpoint is a huge target. I didn't realize how bad it is until I'd bought the 2nd varient. Now I'm stuck with it because selling it gives 20% of what I paid and it would take another 300 games at least to level another mech without the cadet bonus. Worse yet, I must pay real money to buy mech bays 5 & 6 or else sell 2 varients of the Hunchback at a huge loss.

In short, I'm not convinced this game is worth real money and I'm at the point where I must decide because of the mech bay barrier. I probably will just return to Planet Side 2 ("PS2") where I love playing their Elemental style "mech". PS2 has a virtual reality planet where I can try all the weapons and equipment for free in any build I want. And I've spent many hours gauging damage per second ("dps"), different sights, different movement bonuses, and maneuvers with those changes. If I find another player on the VR planet I can even practice different maneuvers against live targets, although, they suffer no damage unlike the practice targets.

Still, I enjoyed MW4 much more than PS2 so I'll give MWO a little more time before I decide.

Edited by Strikeshadow, 07 November 2014 - 06:27 AM.

[SnagaDance]

@Strikeshadow: If you were a good MW4 player 14 years ago, don't you have a little pocket money by now to spend on something so trivial as a few mechbays?

Ok, ok, you need to spend $7 for the cheapest MC pack iirc, but what's that against the time you spend playing the game and the enkoyment you've gotten from it? I'm no big spender myself, I can't justify the cost of any kind of the mech release waves they've got (not even a la carte single mechs) in comparison to spending that money on things that help benefit other of my family members.

But I've spend a little, for mechbays and a few colours, all bought on sale, and consider it great value for what I've gotten in return. Lots of fun playing.

[Strikeshadow]

SnagaDance, on 07 November 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

@Strikeshadow: If you were a good MW4 player 14 years ago, don't you have a little pocket money by now to spend on something so trivial as a few mechbays?

Ok, ok, you need to spend $7 for the cheapest MC pack iirc, but what's that against the time you spend playing the game and the enkoyment you've gotten from it? I'm no big spender myself, I can't justify the cost of any kind of the mech release waves they've got (not even a la carte single mechs) in comparison to spending that money on things that help benefit other of my family members.

But I've spend a little, for mechbays and a few colours, all bought on sale, and consider it great value for what I've gotten in return. Lots of fun playing.

I could afford it, but if I'm only going to play for another few days it'd be dumb to spend the money and risk a credit card transaction with an unknown online game company.

Plus I'm weighing MWO against my other major game accounts, League of Legends where I have 65 champs and 11 rune pages after 2 years and I've not spent one red cent and Planet Side 2 where I have many weapons and maxium upgrades after 9 months without spending a penny.

Edited by Strikeshadow, 07 November 2014 - 08:16 AM.

[Sadistic Savior]

Strikeshadow, on 07 November 2014 - 06:25 AM, said:

Let me start by telling you that I was a top 100 player in MW4 14 years ago and this game is similar enough that I didn't start out as a noob.

I played MW4 as well...and IMO, this game is significantly different. MW4 was an arcade game...this game attempts to be an actual simulation. It is a lot more like the table top game than it is like MW4. Anyone who plays this game expecting MW4 is going to be disappointed.

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I agree with the OP. I give the game 5 stars. The game is not newbie or ftp friendly. We shouldn't need to spend more time than it would take to complete the entire solo queue mission series in MW4, to even have a competitive mech in MWO.

It is a consequence of the game's complexity. PGI is doing the best they can with what they have. I have seen no way to retain the game's complexity while still making it newbie friendly.

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Either we spend $100s, or we play 500-600 games to have a competitive mech,

Um...so what? Thats normal.

In any other MMO, you would be doing the same thing except they would not give you the option to bypass the grind with money. This is not a a real RPG, which is why this doesn't matter. It's a multiplayer wargame with a persistent campaign.

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I chose a Hunchback based on several youtube videos, but it is awful because it has no jjs, no ecm, it has low survivability, and its right torso main weapon(s) hardpoint is a huge target.

...and you did not learn that watching the videos? Reading the stats?

The stats tell you what it is before you buy it. The videos show people actually playing it. Were you really expecting it to have ECM?

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I didn't realize how bad it is until I'd bought the 2nd varient. Now I'm stuck with it because selling it gives 20% of what I paid and it would take another 300 games at least to level another mech without the cadet bonus.

300? Really? Are you sure you're not just exaggerating a bit?

It gives you about half of what you paid for it. A loss of a few million cbills at most. Thats around 40 games, assuming you are a really crappy player.

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Worse yet, I must pay real money to buy mech bays 5 & 6 or else sell 2 varients of the Hunchback at a huge loss.

Again...so what? You start with free mech bays and are not required to spend a dime to play this game. If you want the extras, you have to pay for them. I don't get why people think they are entitled to this stuff for free.

You're not paying to play the game. You can play indefinitely without spending a dime if you want. You start out with everything you need to play. You do not "need" extra mech bays...you "want" extra mech bays.

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Still, I enjoyed MW4 much more than PS2 so I'll give MWO a little more time before I decide.

What was it about MW4 you enjoyed?

[Sadistic Savior]

Strikeshadow, on 07 November 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

I could afford it, but if I'm only going to play for another few days it'd be dumb to spend the money and risk a credit card transaction with an unknown online game company.

I think you should quit now while you're ahead. This does not sound like the type of game you'd like to play. It is not like any of the other games you listed that you like. You're only going to end up more frustrated. This is not MW4, and is never going to become MW4.

[xeromynd]

I agree with the OP. I picked the game up about two years ago (closed/open beta) and I hated it. There were people better than me, with better equipment, weapons, upgrades to their mechs, mech efficiencies unlocked, and I hated all four of the current trial mechs that i was forced to use (Atlas [slow], Raven [weak], Dragon [eugh..], Cicada [stock underpowered]) Now given, in any game, as a new player, there will be people with "better gunz and armor" etc... but this is a team game, not an environment where you're only responsible for yourself (FFA). In other common games, new players can at least score a kill on others by surprising/sneaking up on other players, or just plaing Rambo-ing a bit, because they respawn. Here, in MWO, there is no room for error, if a new player dies, they have to wait about 6-10 minutes to use their one owned mech again, and that's 0 fun whatsoever.

Not that it makes a difference to the OP at all, but there was such a limited choice of trial mechs a while ago, and no we have many, many more available at one time.

When it comes right down to it though, this is just echoing what other's have said, the new player experience in this game is atrocious. The only thing that I think makes ANY new player STICK with this game is the fact that they have some (even small) love for the IP or Lore. Everyone else I've showed this game to (who has never played or heard of an MW title) hated it, and put it down within one game of playing.

I think PGI underestimates the sheer number of players that get turned away from this game because of the terrible new player experience. We have youtube tutorials for christ sake, youtube. I never watched the videos when I started out, because why? Watching videos isn't fun. You learn to play a game by DOING, not by watching and listening. The in-game tutorial (afaik) teaches you NOTHING about rolling damage, managing heat effectively, ghost heat, order of ammo consumption, or the fact that trial mechs are often (or most always) sub-par compared to the custom builds most all players have.

It's like if a soldier was told to watch a 2 hr film about war, and then handed a ****** gun and expected to fight to the death with the same brutality and experience a 20 year war-hero would have.

Another problem is that, while any existing player would say "don't take the cadet bonus for granted!" it is not enough CBills at all. If you buy the wrong chassis as a new player (Locust, Atlas, or Awesome.... god help you) you've barely any CBills left over to try out DIFFERENT loadouts on the mech. It's basically an expectation that we'd better 'get it right the first time' or suffer for our uneducated decision until we lose enough games that we have enough CBills to buy a second mech and try again.

Radical thinking: I think that new players should get to pick a Medium mech chassis for FREE after they complete their cadet bonus matches (25 is it?). This mech would be the chassis alone, no weapons or equipment, no upgrades. Then they can use their cadet bonus (10m-ish?) to at least have a fully upgraded mech, with extra funds to try different weapons, or upgrades.


There's probably some incoherent points in the above rant, but the tl;dr version is: new player experience sucks, I'm surprised it's not focused on more, because players are responsible for funding this game. More players = more possible profit. I'm no economist, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

Edited by xeromynd, 07 November 2014 - 08:43 AM.

[Pyroth]

Personally, I have always felt that PGI should give new players enough to at least get a set of 3 Medium Mechs so they can at least master 1 chassis out of the gate. That still leaves plenty of opportunity for money to be made and stuff to play for. It would greatly help new players stick with the game because at least they have would have 1 mech chassis that's on par. Most of my friends that I tried to get into the game all quit due to the grind to even get going.