155 replies to this topic

[Widowmaker1981]

In fairness, this will get toned down i suspect, as will the other outlier OP quirks. I'm certainly going to wait a few months before i bother investing in Dragons/Thunderbolts/Hunchbacks to see how far these things get reigned in.

To people going 'clan mechs get the same firepower' - yes, they do. at like double the heat generation. with an amazing 20 meters more range. so no, actually, not comparable.

[Kmieciu]

Widowmaker1981, on 07 November 2014 - 02:20 AM, said:

In fairness, this will get toned down i suspect, as will the other outlier OP quirks. I'm certainly going to wait a few months before i bother investing in Dragons/Thunderbolts/Hunchbacks to see how far these things get reigned in.

To people going 'clan mechs get the same firepower' - yes, they do. at like double the heat generation. with an amazing 20 meters more range. so no, actually, not comparable.

On the other hand, Thunderbolt is so huge and fragile that a Timberwolf or a Maddog can disable it before overheating. I wish the IS quirks added more durability instead of DPS.
Thunderbolt looks big and tanky while a Timberwolf looks sleek and fragile. But in game, it's the other way around: it is extremely easy to disarm the Thunderbolt, while the Timber enjoys his a magical jump-shield and tanks insane amounts of damage thanks to higher speed.

Edited by Kmieciu, 07 November 2014 - 02:45 AM.

[Bromineberry]

Kmieciu, on 07 November 2014 - 02:39 AM, said:

On the other hand, Thunderbolt is so huge and fragile that a Timberwolf or a Maddog can disable it before overheating. I wish the IS quirks added more durability instead of DPS.
Thunderbolt looks big and tanky while a Timberwolf looks sleek and fragile. But in game, it's the other way around: it is extremely easy to disarm the Thunderbolt, while the Timber enjoys his a magical jump-shield and tanks insane amounts of damage thanks to higher speed.

What? I never felt beeing easy to disarm in the Thunderbolt. Only if you are reduced to your CT you're without any weapons. As long as there is a ST left, you still can fight back. And a 75 ton mech like the Timberwolf should be more durable than a 65 ton mech, shouldnt it? And dont forget about the ST buff the TDR has gotten with the quirks. I'm certainly not complaining about durability.

[Kmieciu]

Bromineberry, on 07 November 2014 - 02:44 AM, said:

What? I never felt beeing easy to disarm in the Thunderbolt. Only if you are reduced to your CT you're without any weapons. As long as there is a ST left, you still can fight back. And a 75 ton mech like the Timberwolf should be more durable than a 65 ton mech, shouldnt it? And dont forget about the ST buff the TDR has gotten with the quirks. I'm certainly not complaining about durability.

10 additional structure points means nothing against a 54 damage alpha from a 4xERML+2xC-LPL Timber Wolf. Thunderbolt has a chance in team play, when it is able to rush the Timberwolf. In PUG play, the best strategy is still to poke targets at 400+ range.

Edited by Kmieciu, 07 November 2014 - 02:48 AM.

[kapusta11]

Timberwolf, hell, even Stormcrow is still better by a mile. longer range, clan XL engine, JJs, speed, etc. Go away OP.

Edited by kapusta11, 07 November 2014 - 02:56 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Kmieciu, on 07 November 2014 - 02:39 AM, said:

On the other hand, Thunderbolt is so huge and fragile that a Timberwolf or a Maddog can disable it before overheating. I wish the IS quirks added more durability instead of DPS.
Thunderbolt looks big and tanky while a Timberwolf looks sleek and fragile. But in game, it's the other way around: it is extremely easy to disarm the Thunderbolt, while the Timber enjoys his a magical jump-shield and tanks insane amounts of damage thanks to higher speed.

Can you still missile shield with jump jetd?

[BumbleBee]

Seriously, the Thud was underrated before the quirks. They were one of my favourite chassis' before the Clans were released. I still take them out every once in a while and do pretty damn well with them. It is nowhere near as fragile as people make it out to be and was always nasty up close. It ran pretty warm, but it could always rack up a lot of damage and was a damn efficient killer. I haven't played much since the quirks hit, but looking at the list, these things will be OP.

[Widowmaker1981]

kapusta11, on 07 November 2014 - 02:50 AM, said:

Timberwolf, hell, even Stormcrow is still better by a mile. longer range, clan XL engine, JJs, speed, etc. Go away OP.

Gotta love uninformed ranting.. i wish SCRs had Jumpjets.

[QuantumButler]

Oh no a Inner Sphere robot that used to be considered one of the worst of the worst in it's wieght class is sort of competitive against other robots now if it uses one specific short ranged build plz nerf.

Please, the Thunderkeg still pales in comparison to things like the Timberwolf or anything with long range guns, just because it's suddenly viable doesn't mean it is overpowered.

[Ghogiel]

BumbleBee, on 07 November 2014 - 03:13 AM, said:

Seriously, the Thud was underrated before the quirks.

Indeed. But it being basically OP now doesn't make me sad

wubwub

[LowSubmarino]

Im playing th 5ss and it is strong. But only in its respective role. It can't do much else. It ist not good for ridge fighting or peekaboo. It also wouldnt use its quirks to full potential if it tried to do that. It can shift to more ranged builds, of course, but then it wouldnt be as good in those roles.

I think its a good thing to let certain variants excel in specific situations. That might force a pilot to use a narrow range of builds to take advatage of all the mech can offer but at the same time, as ppl have correctly pointed out, we finally see many of the mechs ppl never played, eg. the dragon or thunderbolt.

I have seen a greater variety of mechs than ever before.

And there were a lot of games where I was practically useless with 7 mpls and all the cool quirks simply because for the majority of those games those ppl in mechs designed to snipe ruled the battlefield. Sometimes I got impatient and tried to flank or exposed myself and I got melted by only one or two snipers before I was able to close half the distance.

But I like that tradeoff.

The 5ss is not too strong at all. I have encountered several double ac20 and double gauss jagers as well as cataphracts and it all came down to who saw who first or who was the better shot. I'd say I won most encounters cause of my jedi reflexes and skills...no, just kidding. I won maybe half the time against those builds which are equally devastating in their respective roles. Probably even more so now. As they have - some more some less - benefited from the quirks as well.

And even before the quirks there were (and still are) builds and mechs that could take almost anything down in seconds. Now you have a greater variety of mechs that compete in certain areas instead of all out ac40 jagers everywhere or everybody going for the timberwolf because it just outshines every other mech in terms of sheer firepower and survivability. Maybe the madcat is still very good in most scenarios but at least in specific situations it (as well as other mechs/builds e.g. the ac40 jager or double gauss builds) now has to compete with other mechs designed for exactly those situations.

The game is better now and Im sure they will tweak the quirks a little anyway. Nevertheless, I hope they dont nerf them into insignificance which would then mean ppl hover back towards what was strong before the quirks.

The quirks were a fantastic idea to make each mech unique and by now we have so many mechs, that trying out different builds - around or close to what the quirks offer - playing to their strengthes, is hugely fun.

I have burned through 80 mil. cbills in 2 days because I wanne try out so many different mechs that, for the first time, can compete with the small amount of mechs that were truely good prior to the quirks.

Before you cry 'nerf the 5ss' you should try out a lot of other mechs and their quirks and play to their strenghtes. I think you'll prolly be surprised.

In fact, with all the quirks and their potential, it would be prudent to let us all test them for several months before even thinking about changing anything.

Edited by oneda, 07 November 2014 - 04:34 AM.

[Kmieciu]

That's the beauty of the quirk system: the Timberwolf is still the most all-rounded mech in the game, while a Thunderbolt or a Dragon can be better at one specific aspect.

[James DeGriz]

First round of quirks makes an under played under loved mech viable and a potential threat.

Quirks: Working As Intended.

Next!

[Kutfroat]

http://mwomercs.com/...balance-update/

any more questions? think the quirks aren´t still "serious" enough. get over it, some IS mechs now can actually hurt your precious timberwolf if they manage to get close and have a slight chance to do a bit more than scratching the paint.

Edited by Kutfroat, 07 November 2014 - 05:39 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Stonefalcon, on 06 November 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

Cause PGI are looking at reducing clans per CW battle to 10 vs 12 IS mechs. If there are IS mechs on equal footing with the clan mechs then you will have balance issues.

12 v 10 actually hasn't been a thing for a while. They tested it and the results were 'Meh' and they said it wasn't worth bothering with implementing.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lexx, on 06 November 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

Are you saying it's not balanced because it makes an IS mech as powerful as your OP clan mech?

That's what it looks like to me. Yes it gives IS medium pulse lasers almost as much range as clan med pulse lasers, but why is that a problem?

Why do some players seem think clan mechs should always have an advantage?

Cause I want my enemy to be a tough challenge. Makes winning so much more sweet.

[AlmightyAeng]

Mcgral18, on 06 November 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

Without basics, the WubShee is more agile with a 10 damage greater alpha.

It costs 10% more heat to alpha, for those extra 10 points of damage. With the greater heat capacity and dissipation, the 7 MPLs are pretty much the same.


Now, moving 10 KPh faster than the WubShee with a STD engine and greater cooling, that could be quite nice.

I have a hard decision to make; master the ThunderButts to unlock the full potential of the ThunderWub, or get a pair of TimberGods.

I wubbed the Thunderwub before quirks. It was hot...and the range was annoying, but it was "workable." Not good, but "workable."

Now? Spending most of my time in mechs riding the heat line, the Thunderwub is a joy to play. It's VIABLE! It does good damage, and doesn't overheat NEARLY so much.

But it's still a Thunderbolt - a mech with BARN DOOR SIDE TORSOS and all it's weapons in the arms and side torsos. You're gonna get beat up in a Thunderwub. You're GONNA take serious damage.

[oldradagast]

Stonefalcon, on 06 November 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

OK, I must have missed that one. Well that's a shame, bit by bit the lore is being stripped away.

The problem is that the Lore was written for a totally different game type.

Table-top Battletech is a game where everyone controls a bunch of units. Nobody cares if the IS guy has 50% more units, but some of them die in flaming piles of scrap early in the fight because Clans are far more powerful individually. The IS player just keeps on slogging away with the rest of his units.

But that's not the reality of MWO or any such online game. Here, we each control only ONE mech per fight. So, saying that Clan mechs should be far better and IS mechs should just be red-shirts that get mowed down and can only hope to win by numbers simply wouldn't work. The game would be no fun at all for the IS players in a situation like that. Or, to put it in old-school Nintendo terms, who wants to play a Koopa Troopa vs. playing as a boss or Mario?

Edited by oldradagast, 07 November 2014 - 05:46 AM.

[Ghogiel]

oldradagast, on 07 November 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

Or, to put it in old-school Nintendo terms, who wants to play a Koopa Troopa vs. playing as a boss or Mario?

In the orginal mariokart I seem to recall koopa troopa and toad being more popular than bowser was.

[oldradagast]

Ghogiel, on 07 November 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

In the orginal mariokart I seem to recall koopa troopa and toad being more popular than bowser was.

True, but I meant playing in the Mario games themselves, where a Koopa Troopa was a 1-hit kill with the total power of... walking back and forth. Okay, in Mario 3 some of them could jump, but you get the idea. They are cannon fodder, and nobody wants to play cannon fodder, which is why balancing a game where one side has nothing but "boss monsters" and the other side is supposed to win with waves of cannon-fodder just doesn't work if everyone controls only 1 unit.