154 replies to this topic

[Toast001]

The ppc sucks unless it gets the speed of a guass rifle. It has great range but unless its a stationary mech its not going to hit, so the most effective way play is with a laser instead. With 2 er ppcs on my orion with a 360 engine, its near 50% heat to fire both. I know boating is a issue, but there must be a better deal with it then having such a iconic mechwarrior weapon reduced to such a state.

I just started thinking about this because i bought a warhawk a few days ago. I switched out to large pulse lasers because of one match, this dam stormcrow with no armor and most internal damage, all i needed to do with hit it with 1 or 2 ppcs and it would be down. All i kept thinking durning this was if i used LPL it would have been dead long ago.

And just so you alpha with 4 er ppcs you over heat for about 10 seconds and have orange internal chest, not worth it.

[Nauht]

Never thought I'd see the day when a LPL is better than a PPC in Battletech.

[CDLord HHGD]

I use my single ERPPC all the time... Not sure what sucks about it. I have no issue leading my targets (I got a kill on alpine with it at 1400m, really wish I had a screenshot of it).\

I prefer the ERPPC over the regular PPC for the minimum range restriction, but other than that, it's a fine weapon.

[QuantumButler]

And that's why the PPC is only good on mechs with big PPC quirks, like the awesomes.

[Ultimax]

PPCs still aren't quite there yet, although I don't think they need Gauss level speed.


1200 (PPC) / 1300 (ER PPC) would probably be sufficient.

QuantumButler, on 12 November 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

And that's why the PPC is only good on mechs with big PPC quirks, like the awesomes.

If PPCs are improved, Awesomes will still be using a significantly superior version - they just won't be nearly as bad as they are now for everyone else.

The only thing they need is a slightly higher speed increase.

[QuantumButler]

This is true.

The default ppc speed is pretty laughabley slow, they're basically energy cannonballs.

[MeiSooHaityu]

QuantumButler, on 12 November 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

And that's why the PPC is only good on mechs with big PPC quirks, like the awesomes.

AND Catapult K2....is what we wish we could say :/

[QuantumButler]

MeiSooHaityu, on 12 November 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

AND Catapult K2....is what we wish we could say :/

Yeah I'm salty about that.

I had basically stock K2 but with level 2 tech built, all ready for quirks, and then "Haha **** you, medium laser and ballistic quriks ****es!"

[Tastian]

If PPCs and ERPPCs were cooler and had higher velocity (like they did at one time), then 4xPPC Stalkers would be a huge problem again. Or 2xAC5 / 2xPPC Victors, Cataphract 3Ds, and anything else that could slap on 2 to 4 of them. People keep forgetting about the pinpoint high damage alphas. I'd rather dodge twin ERLarge Lasers. Right now they are kind of restricted to mechs that have PPC quirks like the Vindicator and Awesome and a few others.

[nitra]

to me the ppc's seem to require precision aiming ,

many times when im lobbing them at targets ill notice 1 or 2 that seems to pass through the legs or arms of a mech.

where as with ballistics these exact same shots land soundly .

im not sure what the difference is but a quad ac 5 will always land more shots vs a quad ppc setup against a moving target.

sometimes even when standing face to face.

Also still to this day the ppc bug of shooting something in the back only to have it register in the front is still not solved.

[Kain Demos]

I wouldn't say they CAN'T be used on moving targets, it is just very hard because on top of the obvious (varying top speeds between 'mechs, hit boxes, etc) you have the issue of them seeming to have just as poor hitreg as lasers.

PPCs have always been my go-to weapon in this franchise. I first started playing a few months ago when I believe the PPC nerfs were pretty new still and after a few weeks had a horrible 36% hit rate with them. I've learned to use them better and now have this pushing 70% with over 130k damage caused with them. It is strange to have to lead targets with a PPC as much as I would a ballistic; they have a very high skill ceiling. Missing is extremely punishing--15 heat is a LOT and having it count for nothing is not good. I'd rather have ammo with a weapon like this than generate 15 heat/shot w/unlimited firing. Your rate of fire will always be limited by reaching the heat cap very quickly then needing to take it easy for a bit.

I like lore. I like the science behind rail guns, coil guns, particle accelerators, etc. The weapons are something I've always loved about battletech--it appeals both to my inner nerd and my love of all things combat related. I know people get mad and say "balance > lore, STFU noob" but to me it just doesn't feel right being able to see a PPC fired and then moving out of the way of it. Aside from lasers, they should be the fastest thing around.

If lore was #1 and game balance was a non-factor then a Gauss would realistically travel at somewhere between 4 and 6 thousand meters per second and a PPC considerably faster. However we are engaging at what amounts to EXTREMELY close ranges in comparison to what these weapons (coilguns are in the experimental stages of development) would be capable of so these "instant" travel times are not really necessary for a good mixture of immersion/balance.

Considering a Gauss travels at 2000 m/s and is currently the fastest projectile (tied with ac 2 though???) I would change PPCs in the following manner:

PPC--2,000 m/s but up the cycle time to 4.5
ER PPC--2,500 m/s but up the cycle time to 5
Clan ER PPC--2,500 m/s and removal/reduction of splash damage. If not removed reduced to 13/1/1 and change the cycle time to 6 seconds.

Edited by Kain Thul, 12 November 2014 - 06:58 PM.

[QuantumButler]

Tastian, on 12 November 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

If PPCs and ERPPCs were cooler and had higher velocity (like they did at one time), then 4xPPC Stalkers would be a huge problem again. Or 2xAC5 / 2xPPC Victors, Cataphract 3Ds, and anything else that could slap on 2 to 4 of them. People keep forgetting about the pinpoint high damage alphas. I'd rather dodge twin ERLarge Lasers. Right now they are kind of restricted to mechs that have PPC quirks like the Vindicator and Awesome and a few others.

So instead lets have a whole class of weapon system be kind of **** except on the 3 mechs that have quirks for them?

Brilliant balance.

[The Boz]

A version without a field inhibitor would be grand. -1 tonne, -~20% range, -5 HP, explodes when destroyed (5 damage), no minimum range, 2 slots. Sexy.

[Captain Stiffy]

Some players accounting for bullet drop can put an AC/20 round on you at 1800m on Alpine. It doesn't do anything but they can. I can. Many can.

PPC's are less effective when used on moving targets but I can definitely land those long-range across the map shots on forest colony when mechs are still moving out. It's definitely not impossible and a well placed converged shot using multiple ppc's against a stationary target is crazy deadly.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Nauht, on 12 November 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

Never thought I'd see the day when a LPL is better than a PPC in Battletech.

That day is now....

PPCs, between their artifically nerfed damage, ghost heat, and the LPL buffs, the PPC is kinda derpy......

I am with the OP, I to prefer the Lasers to PPCs.....if for no reason other then sustained RoF.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Its a strange balancing act. Because of their pin point front loaded nature it is very easy for them to become overpowered. At the moment it is too difficult to hit targets at range with them. I think having a higher speed but something along the lines of a 6 second cooldown might be better.

[Hillbillycrow]

Regular PPC is just too slow for the tonnage+heat+minimum+slots.

In other words, they suck sucktastic suckiness outside of highly quirked mechs versus the ERL or LL.

[Tynan]

The PPC doesn't suck if it's slower than Gauss, your aim / ability to lead targets sucks.

There's room for argument regarding PPC speed (I haven't played since the recent incremental increase, and agree the speed it WAS at was too slow) but Gauss speed is idiotic unless you were one of the "skill" assbags plaguing this game for the many months of jumpsniping PPC + Gauss or PPC + Dual AC/5s.

Looking, PPCs *should* be hard to use because they're PPFLD. Anything that's PPFLD should be harder to use than weapons prone to spread because the payoff for successful execution is so high. You had easymode god-PPCs for months and months, and we don't need any more of that crap.

[Metus regem]

cdlord, on 12 November 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I use my single ERPPC all the time... Not sure what sucks about it. I have no issue leading my targets (I got a kill on alpine with it at 1400m, really wish I had a screenshot of it).\

I prefer the ERPPC over the regular PPC for the minimum range restriction, but other than that, it's a fine weapon.

I made the important part stand out more, seems to be a key part people here do not understand... Run side ways in a PUG match, and watch as Dakka Wolves fire where you were, not where you are going to be.

[Viges]

I think its in a good spot now.