27 replies to this topic

[destroika]

Why does the gauss rifle need to explode? I mean, I understand ammo exploding, but you can choose where to put that for the most part. The gauss rifle is huge, heavy, and requires a ballistic slot. There's already so much limitation to where you can fit it and what you have to sacrifice to even hold it and then you have to assume that that part of your mech will explode if the enemy gives you so much as a nasty look. As soon as my armor is gone, it seems the gauss has a 50% chance of being destroyed and within that, about a 90% chance that it explodes that whole section of my mech. Is this working as intended or am I just unlucky? (Inner Sphere mechs).

[destroika]

On that note... would you say this game requires skill? Or is it simply a roll of the dice?

[IraqiWalker]

It provides too much power for no heat generation, and extreme range.

Also, from a lore perspective, it's the only weapon that uses inert ammo. So the ammo doesn't explode, but the downside is that it uses very heavy duty capacitors, that generate a lot of energy, and when they go critical, they go CRITICAL. It's like a mini reactor exploding inside your mech. While most of the other weapons are made of inert parts that will just get wrecked when the weapon is destroyed.

This game does require skill, especially when it comes to aiming, positioning, and situational awareness. However, most shown in the public queue, whom you end up with on your team feels a lot more like rolling dice. One drop you have people that work together, the next you've got people that don't know which way is north with 4 compasses, and a GPS in their hands.

EDIT1: (More mechanical explanation in edit2, and spoiler)


EDIT2:

Here's why it feels like it has a 50% chance of being destroyed:

Spoiler

Each weapon occupies a number of slots on your mech. The bigger the weapon, the more slots it occupies. So when an enemy attacks you and start scoring criticals, they roll to see which slots are hit. Bigger weapons are a lot more likely to get hit that way, because they take up so much space. It's why it is very important to try and "crit-pad" them, by adding other pieces of equipment in the same section to hopefully have that equipment absorb some of the damage that would be dealt to the big weapon otherwise.

The Gauss rifle comes with a specific quirk that gives it an extremely high chance of exploding when destroyed (ammo has a 10% chance of exploding, and gauss has over 60% (might be 90% actually) I wanna say)

The rifle also has a mediocre amount of health for a weapon, however, with all those "problems" it is still considered the premier sniping weapon, which means, that without them, it would be absolutely over powered and broken. In fact, for a long time, it was. Back when it didn't have Charge, Gauss dominated the field so thoroughly, that every mech with a ballistic hardpoint was trying to find a way to mount one.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 12 November 2014 - 07:40 PM.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

I'm guessing it's the mechanics of the Gauss Rifle itself where.. like a medieval catapult.. the projectiles aren't dangerous to the user as much as the catapult itself is where if the catapult fails.. it's liable to crush the user. I'm not sure but I heard rumor that if you equip CASE with your Torso Mounted Gauss Rifle that it saves the rest of your 'mech from destruction if the Gauss Rifle were to explode.. I haven't found any confirmation on that yet but it seems right. Kind of blows how you can't put the CASE on your arms but ah well..

As for your second post.. yes.. it does require a little skill on the pilot's part to gather info, use the gathered info and execute maneuvers to enhance the pilot's survivability according to the info gathered. But it also requires coordination as you drop into battle with eleven other players in your team. Knowing how to "Lead a target" when using long range projectiles. Heat management so you don't nuke yourself during combat. Armor placement and weapon grouping that suit your playstyle.

Adjusting keyboard/mouse/joystick button settings to enhance your ability to participate in battle. (raising/lowering sensitivity/acceleration so you're not whipping your torso back and forth or moving too slow where you seem to be moving in molasses)

And searching the forums for answers and asking questions so you can get a better idea of how to function in the field.

Welcome to mechwarrior online, Mechwarrior! We hope you enjoy your time with us.

[Unnatural Growth]

Gauss rifle is a high risk, high reward (for some) weapon. I've never really been a big fan of the gauss rifle, even before they put in the charging nerf. But now, with the charge/discharge cycle, I ignore it as a weapon option.

I think to be successful in this game takes a high degree of skill (which I lack). But to have fun in this game does not (which I generally do).

If you're going to equip a gauss rifle, I recommend putting a CASE in that section to contain the blast when it does blow up. And certainly don't equip a gauss rifle in a side torso if you're running an XL engine.

[Jody Von Jedi]

The Gauss Rifle is meant to be a sniper rifle. It delivers pinpoint accuracy at super high speed. It's not meant to be a brawler weapon. If you're trying to brawl with it, that would be a contributing factor to your losing it often. I don't use it for 2 reasons: It explodes and the mechanic makes it harder to be precise with it.

It takes a lot patience and either pop tarting, or peek a boo shots to get good with it. Not my cup of tea.

On your question regarding skill, yes it does require skill. Something as simple as learning to torso twist and keep your legs and torso lined up doesn't come natural to most new players. There is definitely a steep learning curve to MW:O

To Illustrate: I'm 46 and I've been playing MW games most of my adult life. My 15 year old nephew is a really good gamer, but he sucks at MW:O. He can't keep his torso straight and runs around like he's drunk. You would think a teenage gamer would be better at this than a middle aged man, but, I, at 46 am a much better pilot than he is.

MW:O has a steep learning curve, but I encourage you to stick with it. It's great fun and the community here is very willing to help new players like yourself.

Jody

[TheCaptainJZ]

Use CASE in your side torso to mitigate the risk from explosion.

[IraqiWalker]

Case stops the explosion from spreading to other sections, IF it were to spread. You see, a Gauss rifle explodes dealing 20 damage. If a section still had 60 health, then it loses 20, and is at 40, and case is useless there. However, if a section had 5 health, and the rifle detonated, then that's 15 damage that will spread from that section. Case would stop that extra 15 damage from going anywhere.


EDIT:

http://mwomercs.com/...age__p__1474814

Look up CASE, in that post.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 12 November 2014 - 08:15 PM.

[destroika]

Hmmm... It's already hard to get even one guass to fit well, then you need room for ammo and now a containment unit that seems almost specific to this weapon all just to get it to work normally and then I'm being told is one of the more difficult weapons to use well. This weapon feels like it has somehow been abused in the past and is now nerfed to the ground, I dare to say even too much so. Too bad I like using it. Well, thanks for all the input.

[IraqiWalker]

destroika, on 12 November 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

Hmmm... It's already hard to get even one guass to fit well, then you need room for ammo and now a containment unit that seems almost specific to this weapon all just to get it to work normally and then I'm being told is one of the more difficult weapons to use well. This weapon feels like it has somehow been abused in the past and is now nerfed to the ground, I dare to say even too much so. Too bad I like using it. Well, thanks for all the input.

Trust me, after a couple of weeks of using one Gauss rifle, you'll realize that all of this is barely enough to contain it.

Also, you don't need Case.

Case helps, but for the record, it's designed to stop ALL EXPLOSIONS from spreading to other sections. That's why Case is used to contain ammo bins. The fact that is somehow helps stop Gauss explosions is more of an added bonus.

Right now, I'm running 2 Gauss on some of my mechs, and I swear I feel a little bad about myself, and my targets, when they get vaporized before they even know what happened.

[SilentScreamer]

Expanding on Iraqiwalker's reply, I would say there are two kinds of skill involved in MWO

1) Piloting your mech. This includes movement, shooting and hitting, heat management, twisting and getting under to avoid crippling damage, etc.

2) Battlefield awareness. Knowing when to attack and when to run away. Using your mechs strengths against an opponents weaknesses. Anticipating where the enemy is before your scout finds them. Knowing how to work with others even if they are PUGs.

Choosing a mech and outfitting it could be considered a skill, but you can simply copy what others have done and get the same result. Piloting and awareness must be learned.

[Redshift2k5]

The main reason the gauss rifle explodes is because it explodes in the Tabletop game and Battletech fiction.

From a game design point of view, it's a weapon with few drawbacks. It's ability to put damage downrange is limited only by ammunition, whereas other ballsitics not only do less damage they also generate heat which must be kept below a dangerous threshhold.

The advantages of the gauss rifle are strong enough that in MWO it needed additional drawbacks, such as the charge mechanic, because otherwise 15 or 30 damage with a single point and click becomes the only weapon worth bringing.

Gauss rifles are one of the hardest weapons to use well, but they are still an important threat on the battlefield and when used well a Gauss mech can easily project damage across a large portion of the map at long enough range it is difficult to return fire.

[juxstapo]

same reason I explode when critted, because otherwise the level of awesome would be absolutely illegal.

[Inveramsay]

To make sense of the awkward gauss rifle we have at the moment we have to look back a bit in MWO history. The Gauss started off like any other AC with instant firing and no crit explosions. When this was the case most people had a guasskitty (Catapult K2 with 2x gauss) in their mechbay. The cries for nerfing were everywhere.

First the critting was introduced but this was less of an issue for the then new Jagermechs that came out than the Cats with their XL engines. Somewhere along the way the charging mechanic was brought in to help stop the dual gaussing that was prevalent.

[STEF_]

Jody Von Jedi, on 12 November 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

There is definitely a steep learning curve to MW:O

To Illustrate: I'm 46 and I've been playing MW games most of my adult life. My 15 year old nephew is a really good gamer, but he sucks at MW:O. He can't keep his torso straight and runs around like he's drunk. You would think a teenage gamer would be better at this than a middle aged man, but, I, at 46 am a much better pilot than he is.

MW:O has a steep learning curve, but I encourage you to stick with it. It's great fun and the community here is very willing to help new players like yourself.

Jody

Regarding this, I believe that some lore fluff is true in our reality.
Some are born mechwarriors and others not. There must be something genetical.
For instance, I haven't had any coordination problem since first time with mw2. Some friends of mine.... just terrible!!! Never been able to coordinate torso twisting and direction despite hours and hours of training
And this is strange, because in real life too you can walk in a direction while aiming in another one!

I think it's called "spatial awareness", or something.

Maybe it's the same issue with parking. I park my car in one maneuver, while some have to lose time parking the car in 10 moves (checkmate!)

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 14 November 2014 - 12:05 AM.

[Mad Ox]

Ir regards to it exploding recommend you check SARNA battletech wiki. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gauss_Rifle

Or

Quote

Since the Gauss Rifle fires solid metal slugs, with neither propellant nor explosive, Gauss Rifle magazines are not susceptible to ammunition explosions. However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion.

The Caps one of the cases were Battletech used some real world truth. Capacitors in real life blow rather spectacularly, Check out youtube for videos of them being blown, there are alot of them. Imagine the size needed to run a Gauss Rifle and you have some truly big and explosive capacitors. Ever around when even a small cap blown trust me you will know it.

Truthfully 20 damage from Gauss rifle exploding isn't to bad. Considering a full ton of regular ammo does its damage times how many rounds are left in it, 1 ton LRM ammo 180 rounds = 180 damage, 1 ton AC2 75 rounds = 150 damage. The pain is knowing that 1) a gauss rifle if hit is pretty much for sure going to explode 2) even after gun is out of rounds it can still explode while empty ammo bin is well empty.

Edited by Mad Ox, 14 November 2014 - 08:45 AM.

[mad kat]

Gauss works best in mechs which can fit it in the arms like the Jaeger and Dragon as more often than not its the only equipment in that component bar CASE as some have said. When the Gauss explodes it takes the arm with it but you will likely still have side torso's there if you have to run an XL to do it.

Gauss is a weapon contrary to the AC20 in fact almost opposite in that it is best fitted in arms with an xl and CASE in the arm with it and used at range. Wheras the AC20 is close range and more often than not (centurion/blackjack aside) fitted in the side torso with standard engines.

Edited by mad kat, 14 November 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Inveramsay, on 13 November 2014 - 11:41 PM, said:

Somewhere along the way the charging mechanic was brought in to help stop the dual gaussing that was prevalent.

The charging mechanic was to make it harder to use with PPCs. There was that ~6 month period where you could one-shot anything with PPC x 2 + gauss or PPC + gauss x2. Also, it make it harder to line up shots in close range against fast mechs giving it another drawback.

[Koniving]

A few things to note:
While it says the optimum range of the Gauss Rifle is 660 meters or so, it has the longest range of Every Single Weapon in the Game. This is accompanied with the fastest projectile speed (short of the MG which is instant), able to reach its target at its maximum range in less time than it took you to charge it up.

1,980 meters is the maximum range (though you'll do 0 damage at this range). At 1320 meters you will deal 7.5 damage. At 660 you will deal 15 damage.
For a comparison: At 450 meters the AC/10 does 10 damage, at 900 meters it deals 0 damage.
At 620 meters, the AC/5 deals 5 damage. At 1240 meters, it deals 0 damage.
LRMs "instantly" self destruct at 1,002 to 1,014 meters (depending on lag).
ER PPCs deal 10 (to 15) damage at 810 meters, but at 1,620 meters they deal 0 damage.

It is possible to equip 4 Gauss Rifles into a single mech.

If this game had standard armor and lore-based (lore-based, not TT based) weapons, the Gauss Rifle would be one of only 3 front-loaded damage weapons. It would also be the most powerful one shot ballistic weapon, only able to fire one at a time, and a single Gauss Rifle could instantly cockpit any enemy with a well placed shot. Of course, you could just as easily penetrate armor at just the right angle, nick someone's gyro, and laugh as you watch them kill themselves trying to get back onto their feet. ...Also everyone would live a lot longer than they do now with double armor/structure values + quirks.

(The other two weapons would be all missile types; but they would be plagued with incredibly slow reload times. And PPCs of all types [though the different types had variants that were not this way].)

Welcome to the front lines.

Spoiler

Quad Gauss, for fun.

Edited by Koniving, 14 November 2014 - 01:21 PM.

[Tim East]

"Since the Gauss Rifle fires solid metal slugs, with neither propellant nor explosive, Gauss Rifle magazines are not susceptible to ammunition explosions. However, if the weapon itself is struck by enemy fire, the capacitors that power the electromagnets will release their stored energy, with an effect similar to an ammo explosion. (In game terms, a critical hit on a Gauss Rifle is equivalent to a 20-point ammo explosion.) Some 'Mechs employ CASE in the section containing the Gauss Rifle to protect internal components in the event the weapon explodes."
Sarna ^

The thing that bugs me about them is the whole charge-up mechanic, since it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense for the thing to explode if the capacitors aren't charged. One or the other handicap is fine, both are dumb. Furthermore, the 2 gauss limit did more to nerf the gauss than the charge-up. I found it extremely easy to adapt to the charge-up mechanic in my Thunderbolt and the PPC/gauss projectile desynchronization did more to nerf that than the charge-up, though that was more of a PPC nerf than anything to do with gauss.

I really think it'd be neat if the gauss only exploded if it was critted during the charge and the amount of damage it did to the component it resided in ranged from 10 at the low end to 20 when it was fully charged. Also neat if you could hold the charge longer, accepting the risk of explosion for the convenience of ready fire. The whole thing could kind of use a rebalance, really. I mean, the whole reason that ghost heat was implemented was the PPFLD resulting from PPC spam. Alongside that, we had the dual-gauss K2 craze, the AC2 screen-shake stun-lock counter-spam for that, and the AC2 nerf into complete obsolescence.

Well, historical ranting aside, I think gauss was used as much as it was because it was just plain better than everything else after the implementation of ghost heat. How about, instead of nerfing every weapon in an unending chain of dissatisfaction, we take a page from more recent patches and buff weapons until they all have an actual purpose, like the recent pulse laser improvements? *cough*cough*cough*flamer*cough*cough*

Hah, Koniving posted the exact video I was thinking of when I said that the 2 gauss limit did more to nerf gauss than charge-up. Imagine if that beast could fire all four at once...

/edit: had to get rid of a bunch of [/color][color=#000000] that randomly inserted itself into my post for no reason I have been able to discern.

Edited by Tim East, 14 November 2014 - 01:23 PM.