262 replies to this topic

[SaltBeef]

I tend to agree this game has some of the biggest PU$$Y fart whiners on the forums I have ever heard on the history of any game. Some of them, claim to be top players baddest of the bad. Sad thing is the Devs seem listen to them.

[ollo]

Stefka Kerensky, on 15 November 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

So what about giving them much more speed and usefulness, and the lock mechanics closer to bt?
Indirect fire more difficult than direct los.
Lock lost after every lrm tube has fired (in bt lock check every turn)
Once lock is achived, make damage quite sure due to high speed missiles.

It seems to have escaped your cautious eye, but they already implemented the mechanics supporting these BT rules. They are called "teamplay" and "awareness" and seem to have been nerfed in one of the recent patches. Most of the time you will lose lock while the missiles are still in flight or just milliseconds before you fire, though.

[Satan n stuff]

Viges, on 15 November 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

Game Unplayable With All The Lrms, srms, lasers, gauses, ppcs, streaks, acs and anything else that can kill you

I guess people really do want a mech hiking simulator.

[STEF_]

ollo, on 16 November 2014 - 03:54 AM, said:

It seems to have escaped your cautious eye, but they already implemented the mechanics supporting these BT rules. They are called "teamplay" and "awareness" and seem to have been nerfed in one of the recent patches. Most of the time you will lose lock while the missiles are still in flight or just milliseconds before you fire, though.

I have written: "Once lock is achived, make damage quite sure due to high speed missiles."
Now it's like you wrote:" Most of the time you will lose lock while the missiles are still in flight or just milliseconds before you fire, though."
I want to buff lmr, not nerf'em
In BT once lrm are fired, damage is done.
In MWO not.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 16 November 2014 - 06:45 AM.

[Quaamik]

Honestly I don't think LRMs are OP.

Its not the boating, its the fact that without VoIP, a team / group that has communication can mass target one individual while a team / group tt does not have it cannot return the favor. I play PUGs a lot. With no communication (or minimal in the chat) LRM boating is far less efficient. Drop into group play and suddenly I find 100 - 200 LRMs raining on a single mech at once. The difference? people can coordinate the strike.

In game VoIP would not solve the issue, merely make it even (then both teams could be effective missile batteries).

to "fix" it would require a combination of things:
- in game VoIP to make it even on both sides
- reduced shake from missile impact, so that a barrage of missiles did not completely make a mech useless
- requiring missile launchers to "re-lock" after each launch, to slow follow up launches on a single target
- letting AMS be installed on more mechs (currently many clan mechs cannot install it)
---- that could maybe be done by letting AMS take up a ballistic hard point?
---- if AMS could be installed a ballistic hard point, that would open up the possibility of mechs with 3, 4 or 5 AMS units.
- Require closer aiming to keep lock. Currently you can get lock, then aim 15 - 20 mm (3/4 inch) over the target reticle an keep missile lock, allowing a higher arc to clear things. Force the aim to be within he target square to keep lock.

possible:
- bumping AMS effectiveness to let AMS take out more missiles from multiple launches impacting at once. (not sure if that could be done within the game engine without breaking LRMs).

BTW, making missiles keep lock and guarantee hits after being fired, even if you loose lock, is a big buff and would make LRM spam horrible. For those that don't remember the MW2 days, LRMs the were so OP that they had to resort to multiple tiers, with only the tier 3 / unlimited builds being allowed to use LRMs. We wouldn't want get that would we?
-

[volon12]

all this lrm hate has gotten to the point that it is affecting game play. peeps refusing to press r, deliberately not helping you when being attacked.(3 mechs standing in an area 3 mechs come over the hill to attack . the of course attack the lrm boat and instead of 3 against 3 it instantly goes to lrm boat against 3 because the other mechs run off posting about how the lrm boat deserves it) i have been shot in the back by teammates because im using an lrm mech. while they are saying move lrm boat get some skill at the front lines or i will kill you. I can deal with being called every name in the book .(usual response if any is just to call them freeborn) but doing things to affect my experience in game because of a weapon i choose to use that you don't like...wtf. (for you haters that will tell me im unskilled i routinely get 500- 900 in the front lines with my boat) starting to sound and feel like lol around here.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

mogs01gt, on 15 November 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

2 years wow....You do realize that this game is designed to increase your KD over time due to the structure of the matches? You've played that long and only have a 1.88kd...

Abivard, on 15 November 2014 - 06:15 PM, said:

Hmm Win/loss ratio at 1.05552 Roughly the W/L ratio of a player who was afk for about 80% of their games.
Yet the K/D ratio of 1.88 indicates active participation in the vast majority of drops.
6534 total games scored for these stats.
Still demonstrates little understanding of how LRM's work.

I would tend to think this is a person with below average/starting Elo rating who has sunk to their level of competency but struggles against average or better players, a player more likely carried then doing the carrying.
The only solution is for you to start thinking and learning, not QQ.n and placing the blame on LRM's.

So much Hate . Carry on brah

Kilo 40, on 15 November 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:

That's because you, and all the other whiners, don't want counters to LRMs. You want complete invulnerability to them.

Boths module slots used + 4 tons for ams and ammo. If you still only kill like 20-25 or 30 missiles its not imressive. The % was in relation of an example of a 60lrm volley. Ecm makes you untouchable if you are outside of 360m range for only 1,5 tons

Since we know that not all mechs can carry dual ams the shot down missles sink to 10-15.

Thunder Child, on 16 November 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

When an LRM Boat can Strip my side torso of my Hunchie during the one and a half seconds it took me to step between buildings in a city fight, or shred the front armor off my CT because someone pogo-ed over a hill to fire, I'll believe they need to be fixed. When an LRM boat can vaporise 30% of my HP WITHOUT WARNING, I'll believe they need to be fixed. When I have to hide behind a rock, and what for a teammate to draw fire before I'll risk running forward, I'll believe they need to be fixed.

But right now? LRMs are the most balanced they have ever been. Could they be better balanced? Sure, once ECM is no longer an OFF switch to an entire weapon system. But right now, PPFLD, and to a lesser extent, PP Laser Vomit, is far scarier. A Dual Gauss/Dual PPC, or Supa-Dakka Whale is FAR more effective at pinning down players than LRMs. The problem with LRMs is that they are psychological. They play on the fear of "Oh Noes, I can't fight back, so I'll just hug this rock. It's a nice rock".

Hell, if you think they are bad now, you should have seen them when they did 1.8 Damage per missile, and had the Splash propagation bug. Do I wish LRMs had more "Skill" to use at their most basic level? Yes, I do. But the same can be said for all the point and click "Skill" Alphas out there. Imagine if, heaven forbid, players had to account for the movement of their mech, instead of having a perfectly steady crosshair. The QQ would break the internetz as all the CoD players actually needed to learn to time their shots.

Using Lrms is too easy and kills the fun in matches. As stated before they are not as effective all the time- same as having ac20 srm loudout. But in the right hands they are too effective for the effort you have to put in. All you have to do is position yourself decently so dont get seen and wait for some good locks.

All the other point and click alpha builds need to have line if sight. Lrm doesnt.

volon12, on 16 November 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

all this lrm hate has gotten to the point that it is affecting game play. peeps refusing to press r, deliberately not helping you when being attacked.(3 mechs standing in an area 3 mechs come over the hill to attack . the of course attack the lrm boat and instead of 3 against 3 it instantly goes to lrm boat against 3 because the other mechs run off posting about how the lrm boat deserves it) i have been shot in the back by teammates because im using an lrm mech. while they are saying move lrm boat get some skill at the front lines or i will kill you. I can deal with being called every name in the book .(usual response if any is just to call them freeborn) but doing things to affect my experience in game because of a weapon i choose to use that you don't like...wtf. (for you haters that will tell me im unskilled i routinely get 500- 900 in the front lines with my boat) starting to sound and feel like lol around here.

Well they kill the fun in a match. Reasonable that ppl donot like them especially if you see 30-50% lrm boters per match. And if lrms are useless why do 50% in a match decide to choose them? Is it because of the challenge and the assists? Because the intense grinding of the game and that ppl ike to choose easy mode to gring cbills?Or because they are quite pretty effective? Perhaps a mix of those 3

Infact the average usuage of lrm´s per match crossed a line where it starts to be no fun

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 16 November 2014 - 03:27 PM.

[Mott]

The LRM rain is annoying... but that's all it is - an annoyance.

I run mediums without AMS and i cheat on armor. And yet since Fri night, i've died exactly once from LRM swarms.

Breaking lock with radar dep, using cover and never straying out into a danger zone alone work well enough for me.

Also, my 3xLPL WVR and my 4xSRM4 GRF absolutely fricking LOVE rolling up on a lightly defended LRM boat. Oh the lolz!

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Well as you said. Its annoying and breaks the fun for me per match. But do i get killed often by lrms? no

[Tincan Nightmare]

So LRM's are OP to the ignorant PUG and useless to the uber elite group warrior. Yet for all the forum warriors that support current LRM mechanics, its in a good place and nothing is wrong with it? That pretty much sums up the this entire thread, that if you L2P they are useless and easily countered and will never touch you. Amazing that the same people spouting that arguement are the ones saying leave them as is, guess a broken weapon system should stay broken. Most people simply want to CHANGE LRM mechnics, to make them both more balanced and less annoying, not make them dissapear from the game entirely. Well if thats the case suck it up when people come here to complain about them, its been the one constant of the forums since the game went live, but yah theres nothing wrong here, move along.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Tincan Nightmare, on 16 November 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

So LRM's are OP to the ignorant PUG and useless to the uber elite group warrior. Yet for all the forum warriors that support current LRM mechanics, its in a good place and nothing is wrong with it? That pretty much sums up the this entire thread, that if you L2P they are useless and easily countered and will never touch you. Amazing that the same people spouting that arguement are the ones saying leave them as is, guess a broken weapon system should stay broken. Most people simply want to CHANGE LRM mechnics, to make them both more balanced and less annoying, not make them dissapear from the game entirely. Well if thats the case suck it up when people come here to complain about them, its been the one constant of the forums since the game went live, but yah theres nothing wrong here, move along.

Didnt get what ya fully say but all i can agree is your sentence:

Most people simply want to CHANGE LRM mechnics, to make them both more balanced and less annoying, not make them dissapear from the game entirely.

[Davers]

I dunno OP. If I see I have 6 LRM assault mechs on my side I don't think "Wow, we won this!". I think "Boy, are we screwed!". Kill the spotter and those LRM boats have to come out and get their own locks. This usually ends up with dead missile boats.

[Lightfoot]

good grief man, LRMs are terrible now, just abysmal damage. The fix for LRMs is to restore the LRM counter weapons of a non-desynced single Gauss Rifle and 1300-1500 mps PPCs.

You see half the balance of MechWarrior is that the weapons all have a counter to keep them in check. Map terrain determines how well each counter works, but they always have the countering effect.

What you see now is LRMs that are so weak players have to build huge LRM-boats to do any damage. With the weapons PGI has set up, you need to get really close before you can stop LRM boats, but if Gauss and PPCs worked normally you could stop LRM boats from 700-800 feet away and then they would almost vanish from gameplay.

[Lykaon]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 15 November 2014 - 04:48 AM, said:

Pretty much game is unplayble since a few months due to intense lrm rains. Not that the arc of those lrms are insane, narc adds a different quality to the lrm rain too.

"go behind cover" doesnt work due to the ridiculous arc

i dont mind some lrm mechs but when half of the enemy Team is Boating lrm 50 and more is then this gets just silly.

Dumb animals can play a lrm mech.

Pgi has to act fast.

When challenges are on some ppl usually try to do the challenge with min effort. That means boating lrms.

I dont blame those ppl but pgi because of the broken lrm mechanic.

Go ahead and suggest below how the lrm mechanic could be changed from the "ground" if needed

Do you primarily pilot heavy and assaults?

Do you mechs generally have top speeds between 50-65kph?

Mobility vastly improves your survival rate against indirect fire LRMs.

Do you mainly Pug?

Organized play with a skilled team vastly improves your survival rate against anything.

Are you generally in the front being one of the first targets locked onto by the entire enemy team?

Caution and careful maneuver also vastly improves survival.

Do you feel one more heatsink of a bit more armor or one more ton of ammo is a better choice than an AMS?

AMS is not suppose to protect you from all the missiles.AMS is to reduce the damage you take while you get away from being a missile target.Take an AMS.

Have you never piloted an LRM support mech?

The best way to learn the limitations of any play style or weapon system is to use it and learn to use it well.You will learn to know what is actually effective cover from LRMs after you have spent enough time wasting ammo shooting LRMs into it.


I am in agreement that LRMs are in need of adjustments.But we play the game we have not the game we want.The main cause of poor LRM balance is a poorly designed Information Warfare system and having the poorly designed ECM mechanics obfuscating potential balance issues with LRMs.
The recent BAP changes are actually a step forward to balancing LRMs.With the BAP change more "pure" LRM metrics will be available for study.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Lykaon, on 16 November 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

Do you primarily pilot heavy and assaults?

Do you mechs generally have top speeds between 50-65kph?

Mobility vastly improves your survival rate against indirect fire LRMs.

Do you mainly Pug?

Organized play with a skilled team vastly improves your survival rate against anything.

Are you generally in the front being one of the first targets locked onto by the entire enemy team?

Caution and careful maneuver also vastly improves survival.

Do you feel one more heatsink of a bit more armor or one more ton of ammo is a better choice than an AMS?

AMS is not suppose to protect you from all the missiles.AMS is to reduce the damage you take while you get away from being a missile target.Take an AMS.

Have you never piloted an LRM support mech?

The best way to learn the limitations of any play style or weapon system is to use it and learn to use it well.You will learn to know what is actually effective cover from LRMs after you have spent enough time wasting ammo shooting LRMs into it.


I am in agreement that LRMs are in need of adjustments.But we play the game we have not the game we want.The main cause of poor LRM balance is a poorly designed Information Warfare system and having the poorly designed ECM mechanics obfuscating potential balance issues with LRMs.
The recent BAP changes are actually a step forward to balancing LRMs.With the BAP change more "pure" LRM metrics will be available for study.

Thx for all the good meant questions. I mainly pilot a Dragon, Victor, Highlander or a wolverine. So actually pretty fast mechs.
My mechs are usually between 64 and 97 Kph fast. I do mainly play with my unit but do sometimes pug aswell.

Well the possible lrm rain doesnt allows me to moove without caution. I usually dont die throu lrms but the gameplay iam forced to play really annoyes me. You cant even 1v1 someone without the danger of getting lrmed to deaths. And i really dot mind lrm 30 Kintaros. My problem with lrms are the lrm 60 boats. You see multiple of them on the battlefield.

Yes iam mainly on the frontline and usually one of the first targets on the enemy radar perhaps.

I really think that the lrm problem is related to the latest availible clan mechs with lrm possible loudouts too (stormcrow-summoner,daishi, timberwolf- Ppl want to get the skills for those mechs as soon as possible.


So again: if there are just a few 2-3 lrm boats on the battlefield i dont mind But once the enemy team is full of even 6+ Lrm mechs with even spotting lights, the matches begin to be no fun even if my team wins at the end which accures to be most of the time. Its the gameplay in those matches which annoy me.

Ive recently played my lrm hgn 733p with lrm 45 artemis. I had 5x 600-800 dmg matches and 4 bad + 1 neutral/ok match. Actually i do know how to counter or even pilot a lrm mech but usually i dont bother to play a lrm mech because its really unfun and boring to sit back and rain your lrms on the enemy without really gettig involved to the fight. I would really like to use lrms but not with this easy lock and click mechanic.


Ams might help if only one or 2 lrm mechs attack you. But in most cases you get lrmed by multiple Boats at the same time with their lrm 40-70 mechs.

Lightfoot, on 16 November 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

good grief man, LRMs are terrible now, just abysmal damage. The fix for LRMs is to restore the LRM counter weapons of a non-desynced single Gauss Rifle and 1300-1500 mps PPCs.



You see half the balance of MechWarrior is that the weapons all have a counter to keep them in check. Map terrain determines how well each counter works, but they always have the countering effect.



What you see now is LRMs that are so weak players have to build huge LRM-boats to do any damage. With the weapons PGI has set up, you need to get really close before you can stop LRM boats, but if Gauss and PPCs worked normally you could stop LRM boats from 700-800 feet away and then they would almost vanish from gameplay.

I dont miss the excessive ppc gauss time tbh. And most of the time you even dont see a lrm mech while they operate behind cover anyways. So how are you gonna counter them without even seeing them?

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 17 November 2014 - 01:11 AM.

[Charronn]

Last night the lurming was of epic proportions.I mean ridiculous amounts of it.It needs fixed badly.Quit after 3 games in disgust (got 6 kills but to no avail). If this is the pattern of events/weekends the game is taking well PGI you are getting no more of my money.
Seriously last night was the straw that broke the camels back for me.
It was just that bad.

[Mordin Ashe]

And yet not a single AMS was given.

Sorry, mounted.

[Charronn]

Mordin Ashe, on 17 November 2014 - 02:20 AM, said:

And yet not a single AMS was given.

Sorry, mounted.

Oh I had ams mounted,that's a given now.Made absolutely zero difference.......

[El Bandito]

Charronn, on 17 November 2014 - 02:32 AM, said:

Oh I had ams mounted,that's a given now.Made absolutely zero difference.......

Your words and my experience do not match.

Any team with few AMS had no trouble with LRMs.



But go ahead and bury your head in the sand.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 November 2014 - 02:41 AM.

[Tahribator]

Yesterday I had a solo match where the matchmaker put 2xAWS-8R, a STK-5S and a single CPL-1A on the other team on Tourmaline, complete with NARC scouts. The lurmageddon was real.

Though my team was competent and we closed the range pretty quick where their lurms didn't matter at all. After that it devolved into an 8 minute stand-off where we wore out the other team slowly but steadily. It was a satisfying victory.

The thing is, if you see a lot of LRM boats on the other team, you also know that they suck at trading shots. You know they're lacking sort of 'Mechs with huge alphas that smack you when you show your face. You know their LRM boats are timid and will suck at positioning. I win most of the matches like these.

The problem arises when your team panics, loses their cool and screws up their positioning when this happens. It happens a lot in the solo queue due to its random nature. Though, that shouldn't be a problem in group queue.