88 replies to this topic

[Sjorpha]

I'm not convinced map size is the problem, alpine, terra and caustic are all quite big, but all the fighting still happens in the central mountains so most of those maps are dead space.

So design beats size when it comes to creating diverse play on a map.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Sjorpha, on 17 November 2014 - 01:21 AM, said:

I'm not convinced map size is the problem, alpine, terra and caustic are all quite big, but all the fighting still happens in the central mountains so most of those maps are dead space.

So design beats size when it comes to creating diverse play on a map.

ITs the lack of any kind of point to the matches....only stats the matter...KD/WL...so, naturally, people will play for those, which equals a deathball to the middle and pew pew pew...next game....Might as well give us a series of bridge maps.......

[Molossian Dog]

Even on big maps the fighting happens at the same places all the time because

1.) map design (see Alpine Peaks)
2.) Static spawn points
3.) Static cap points
4.) no objectives
5.) limited time

Randomized spawn points is also a very basic thing. In fact it is a feature already well known in the 90ies.

The really sad thing is how extremely easy it would have been to implement that. The increase in replayability of a limited set of maps would be disproportionate to the effort put into that.

Another example of what I mean with skewed priorities of PGI.

There are dozens of small adjustments and features that would enhance the gaming experience considerably. All long known. All asked for by the community. Repeatedly. All not very demanding from a technical point of view.

All outright ignored.
For years.
Literally years.

Frankly I don´t understand how anyone can buy the "IGP-scapegoat / PGI rueful sinner / everything´s gonna get better" line. There is no hint even minor issues that bother the players are being adressed.



Just like global chat, command rose, voip, remove all modules button, social button that STOPS flashing and many, mandy things more.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 17 November 2014 - 02:52 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I think I like the direction it is going. The real test is the launching of Community Warfare. If they can deliver a half descent Community Warfare, I think that goes a long way.

Overall though, I have been pretty content.

About the only thing lately I didn't care for was some of the quirks *cough* Cat K2 *cough*, but most things seem to be going well.

[Johnny Z]

Nightmare1, on 16 November 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

I think that the IGP split has been the best thing that happened to this game.

Go PGI!

I have to agree. At least the sales are faction oriented. I dont know if sales count as content but currently the game is starved of content so badly it almost seems that way lol

The weekend events are content and fun but really so much not in game its a real downer.

Well, have to see what happens leading up to the new year. They really have to start delivering on faction wars etc.

If they are legit I got no problems, but some doubts about the game being throttled have come up.

Finally, if they continue trying for a Mechwarrior sim that fits with 2014 almost 2015 and also captures what makes Mechwarrior awsome then right on.

[Molossian Dog]

Can anyone tell me what exactly they are doing better since IGP is gone?
Besides declarations of intention.


There is the mixed bags of quirks... aaaand...???



This is a sincere question.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 17 November 2014 - 09:29 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

I'm still here. I'm still playing... I guess that's a yes.

[Utilyan]

Elaxter, on 15 November 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:

Simple.

I say yes mainly because in the last few months, the devs really pulled together to do nice things for us. The anniversary mechs, the Halloween event, the new map on the horizon, all the clan mechs for Cbills, cool IS mechs coming out in the new pack (and are not deadly expensive compared to what you get), etc etc. I can smell the Community Warfare stuff right around the corner.

Discuss.

No its Whale appeasement, Pay to Win If the precise capability of anything is outside the hands of another person you have a UNFAIR ADVANTAGE PERIOD. CW is the BS hand they bluffed with from the beginning didn't deliver, oh but wait we got these new cards......CW is looking better now, we doing stuff so good it has to be secret......that's what was said.

IF CW comes out and its nothing but a planet with a meter on it that ticks based on who fought who. I think its going to be a let down. Its better then nothing but still a let down.


Look at the smack talk they had about transverse. Persistent world with all player created tools objects crafting ect. All that should have been brought to the mwo table with you building factories, barracks, defense turrets.

Mechbays should have been available for c-bills, but should have been required like PER PLANET maybe even with fluctuation prices based on MERC-supply/demand. And then personal drop ship for where you want mechs. To kind of give some sense of personal conquerors expansion. To give some slight strategic taste.


I feel its just gonna be META-mechs "try-hards" all at where you want, when you want, with exactly what you want. The whale will remain supreme exactly what he paid for.

[DONTOR]

As long as they keep pumping out the mechs I'll never be disgruntled. So thats a YES from me.

[Lancer Deistler]

Molossian Dog, on 17 November 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

Can anyone tell me what exactly they are doing better since IGP is gone?
Besides declarations of intention.


There is the mixed bags of quirks... aaaand...???



This is a sincere question.

Well they finaly started working on CW. From what was stated in one of the NGNG Podcasts, IGP wouldn't let them do it. IGP's intention was like, yeah bring in 3PV and newbie stuff so we can get a quick buck out of that product. I don't know if thats true or not, but when i look at how IGP handeled the development of mechwarrior tactics it's very likely. Over the last months we saw the IGP's handcuffs removed. Now PGI can prove that they really care for their product and start the polishing of their product.

My top priorities:
- CW Phase 2
- Voip/command wheel
- Collisions mech/environment
- redo of mechlab UI
- CW Phase 3 with logistics/different Gamemodes
- graphic and sound polishing
- regional servers

[PurpleNinja]

Yep.

[Mirkk Defwode]

Davers, on 16 November 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

I don't think increasing TTK by adding more walking is what people mean.

But yeah, if they had balanced the mechanics around 20-25 minute matches, rather than 6 minute matches, it would be a completely different game. Possibly a better one.

Scale of the maps would change a lot of the combat dynamics. Think of some of the MW4 maps that were effectively large open spaces. If you had a brawler there were paths you were almost required to take to get into a position to even engage. It was a tactically more intelligent game.

Right now I see a lot of lets all huddle together, then once engage hide behind that wall so we don't get shot while poking out from time to time to take pot shots. It's rather to see a coordinated attack, or even a few folks splitting off to strike a flank and push the opposition into a killzone. Even then with the new scoring system if you do split off and you're not with your lance you lose out on a ton of experience and money because you don't get those lance proximity bonuses.

I think the new systems and direction are an improvement, but whether it's going to continue in that direction is wholly unknown. I've had a lot of faith to see this turn around and be a good title, but until some systems get addressed and look for more parody between previous titles and behavior I don't see the game I originally invested for.

Hopefully some of this can get resolved, but there needs to be a few other changes. Like 1-2 weeks for testing system on the test servers. Those test servers need to be left up 24/7. Economy needs to get re-tuned, and core mechanics like Heat and ECM need to get re-done. I think even the whole of the weapons system needs to get looked at again with more variety added to open up player dynamics and have added variety.

[Mirkk Defwode]

Molossian Dog, on 17 November 2014 - 02:46 AM, said:

Even on big maps the fighting happens at the same places all the time because

1.) map design (see Alpine Peaks)
2.) Static spawn points
3.) Static cap points
4.) no objectives
5.) limited time

Randomized spawn points is also a very basic thing. In fact it is a feature already well known in the 90ies.

...

Just like global chat, command rose, voip, remove all modules button, social button that STOPS flashing and many, mandy things more.

Random Spawns aren't really random, they're more pre-placed team spawns in excess of the intended ones you're going to use. Even so, the majority of maps are either too small or too open to utilize these right now. We'd need to see some major overhauls in how the maps are designed and function.

Side note: Alpine Peaks is small when compared to Dust Bowl or Frozen Tundra from MW4. It took quite a bit of time to even locate the other team in those maps. A lot of the MWO maps more remind me of the Solaris maps from MW4 than they do of an open expansive battlefield. I think they're just 2-4km Squared, versus MW4 maps were more 6-12km Squared. Ideally maps should be 5-15km squared allowing for extreme variety and added role warfare based on speed, armor, and approach. With maps on that larger scale you could see the availability of shifted "Randomized" spawns and be done in a balanced setting still.

I know MW:LL was able to get maps more along than scale working in the CryEngine so it's a choice as to whether or not to craft maps of that size.

[Revis Volek]

Farix, on 16 November 2014 - 01:53 PM, said:

I started playing a game that was advertised as being a Muti-player MechWarrior game, but not one that was PvP only. My thoughts when I first joined was that PvE will eventually be included when PGI ironed out the PvP balance. At no point did PGI state that MWO would never include PvE content.

They already talked about doing a Single Player Campaign after CW and the new year. So maybe 2015 we will see talks of this....

Mirkk Defwode, on 17 November 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

...Side note: Alpine Peaks is small when compared to Dust Bowl or Frozen Tundra from MW4. It took quite a bit of time to even locate the other team in those maps. A lot of the MWO maps more remind me of the Solaris maps from MW4 than they do of an open expansive battlefield. I think they're just 2-4km Squared, versus MW4 maps were more 6-12km Squared. Ideally maps should be 5-15km squared allowing for extreme variety and added role warfare based on speed, armor, and approach. With maps on that larger scale you could see the availability of shifted "Randomized" spawns and be done in a balanced setting still.

I know MW:LL was able to get maps more along than scale working in the CryEngine so it's a choice as to whether or not to craft maps of that size.

The New Jungle map is pretty HUGE!

[Mirkk Defwode]

DarthRevis, on 17 November 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

...
The New Jungle map is pretty HUGE!

Huge is a relative term, but I'll wait and see. If it isn't the scale of the MW:LL Swamp map then I'll be a bit disappointed.

It should be good to get another new map.

[Rebas Kradd]

Molossian Dog, on 15 November 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

1.) I don´t think there is a specific direction the devs have laid out. No conscious master plan. It is a series of crisis management and bandaids. Most of it seems to be done on the fly.
2.) The direction the game seems to be actually staggering towards? No, I don´t agree at all.

Basic requirements for a successful online game are lacking. Even worse the announced intentions ignore these requirements completely. Each would require its own thread, but if you look at the townhall answers you will notice almost each and every issue that bothers people and actively drives them away from the game is handled as "maybe later".

http://mwomercs.com/...v-13th-session/

Just a few keywords:
User Interace
VOIP
Command Rose
Heat Engine
Eradication of Bug-Exploiting (i.e. JJ animation)
ECM/Target lock system
PPFLD
A frigging tutorial worth a damn.

And finally: Something to do.

There is nothing to do in this game. It is a deathmatch. Plain and simple. CW will be deathmatch plus colourful map. There is nothing to organise, nothing to plan for, nothing to talk about or coordinate with your faction buddies. You log in, maybe click on a planet, drop and grind. Rinse and repeat.


Random thoughts:
-Why don´t we have faction specific trial Mechs? Why don´t we vote on them? At least for CW.
-Why aren´t there historic battles to opt in? You know, instead of leaderboard grinds.
-What is there in terms of immersion? There are no missions. No logistics, no economy, no chain of command.
-Where are incentives for community interaction? For teaching new players? Look at the faction forums. Empty.
-What goals are there for players? Get mech number 58 and grind it to master? Will that keep players interested?
-You never get the feeling that you are a Mechwarrior in the battletech universe. You don´t get assigned to a location doing missions there. You never even get into contact with the universe. There is not even a scrap of lore to be found in the game. You need third party sources to even get a basic understanding of what is going on.
-There are no consequences to whatever I do in this game. It is an endless grind. The only possible interaction in the game decides if I grind slower or faster.

------------------------------------------

TL;DR

While diverting, the game is as shallow as a browsergame. In fact it is monetized like one. Go figure.

And there are no plans to change that.

The things you want are in the pipeline. The reason they're not here is because PGI has forty full-time staff and cannot crank out features like EA or CIG can. Your preferences have NOT simply been thrown to the wayside.

You're spreading misinformation about the game and developer. There ARE plans to change things. If you're no longer interested in being part of this community, please just leave.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 17 November 2014 - 01:19 PM.

[Molossian Dog]

Lancer Deistler, on 17 November 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

Well they finaly started working on CW. From what was stated in one of the NGNG Podcasts, IGP wouldn't let them do it. IGP's intention was like, yeah bring in 3PV and newbie stuff so we can get a quick buck out of that product. I don't know if thats true or not, but when i look at how IGP handeled the development of mechwarrior tactics it's very likely. Over the last months we saw the IGP's handcuffs removed. Now PGI can prove that they really care for their product and start the polishing of their product.

[snip]

I keep hearing this. But I wonder what evidence makes people so sure all their woes are gone. Since IGP´s departure we had quirks and...well, announcements. What did I miss?

Rebas Kradd, on 17 November 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

...
You're spreading misinformation about the game and developer. There ARE plans to change things. If you're no longer interested in being part of this community, please just leave.

While this is a cute attitude, (and thank you for the love) I do not actually need to spread any misinformation.

You do not have to believe one word I write. Take it from the source. Go and read the townhall transcript.

Random examples:

Quote

# How is VOIP coming along?

- not worked on at all... want Buckton on it soon.. A TOP priority

Wut?

Quote

# Command Wheel?

- Would like but not priority

Priority. I think that is the term I used, did I not? I am pretty sure I did.

------------------------------------------------------

To sum it up that all the answers to these sorely needed features pretty much sound like "yeah, maybe later". Do you read that any different?

And when it comes to certain features we keep hearing "maybe later" for years. No figure of speech. Years. But this time they really mean it?

------------------------------------------------------

What I claim that there are no plans for is to make MWO less shallow. To make it less of a browsergame pokemon experience and more like a war sim.

Actually it says so in the quote you were answering to.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

So are you trying to convince me that (one day) they are going to work on VOIP, command rose etc? Don´t bother. It says so in the quote I gave you. I can read, thank you.

If you are trying to convince me that -the immersive war sim and a monetization model that makes you enjoy spending money instead of frustrating you until you do like a frigging browsergame- is just around the corner...well you are going to have a hard time.

I am not even seeing the developers discuss the topics at all. (depth and monetization) Or reaffirm their playerbase that this is (still?) their "vision". The last time we heard about this "direction" of the game was what? During closed beta?

If there would be a tangible plan to make more of this game then I am pretty sure we would have heard about it by now. It would have been stupid to hide that from your customers.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 17 November 2014 - 04:15 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

So is the original Smith and Tinker crew still withPGI? If not, I think that would explain why the original plan for a dedicated, very awesome PVE ongoing Coop campaign went to the wayside, it was Jordan and the old FASA crew going on about that.

[Rebas Kradd]

Molossian Dog, on 17 November 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

And when it comes to certain features we keep hearing "maybe later" for years. No figure of speech. Years. But this time they really mean it?

If all you have is cynicism, then you have no argument (and that is the pivot on which your argument stands or falls). They said it's not a priority, but not that it would "maybe" happen later. Apples and oranges.

And given the acceleration of development this year, the renewed ability to hit deadlines, the discussion of IGP's involvement, and the arrival of actual infrastructure to a theoretical CW, there IS reason to believe things are improving. Narrative on this stuff, the technical slowdowns the game experienced since CB, and the monetary vision has been trickling down from PGI since February; if you haven't seen it, it's not my fault.

You are twisting their words severely enough to border on a lie.

Please just leave if you're no longer interested in the game.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 17 November 2014 - 05:16 PM.

[Gauvan]

Considering the work needed to improve the current team deathmatch game mode, plus the amount of work CW will require to deploy and polish, I think talking about any PvE content is very optimistic.

I do appreciate that PGI is trying to do a better job engaging with the players. There have been some nice balance changes. They seem excited about CW. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt but I'm hesitant to get too excited about upcoming features, at least for the six months or so.

Edited by Gauvan, 17 November 2014 - 06:06 PM.