91 replies to this topic

[Jody Von Jedi]

I guess the real beauty of the VTR is how versatile it is. I've seen all sorts of ideas in this and other threads started since yesterday. It might not be the Mech of Lore it used to be, but it's nice to see it on the battlefield again.

[UrsusMorologus]

KraftySOT, on 25 November 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

These days that just gets you killed. If you cant do 60 PP alphas in an assault, you dont belong in a brawl. A Doomcrow will reduce you to ashe in a third the time it takes you to kill him.

Might have some success in pugs....but thats just not good anymore.

And the 4 JJs are pointless. The nerf to JJs pretty much made those useless. You can save some tons, and without the negative quirks turn just fine, and you shouldnt be brawling with it any more anyways.

The only advantage you have in a Victor, is range, if you get rid of that, every Timberwolf, Wubshee, Whale, Atlas, Splathawk, Doomcrow, Jagerbomb, Thunderwub, Wubberine, etc...out damages you considerably.

Your only real chance is to out range them. Do your DPS while they cant return fire effectively. Fill thier screen with LRM5 spam and PP that gauss to good locations. Keeps you to three modules too. You dont have to module up the lrms.

Though with mpl, srm, and ac20, you need 6 modules but can only ever mount 3, to be all that effective.

This is pretty ridiculous

Jumpjets are the only thing it has going for it. Punch the enemy in the face then jump and turn to avoid return fire. If you dont use the jumpjets you are just a crappy atlas.

[Viges]

Vassago Rain, on 25 November 2014 - 01:28 AM, said:

It's tier 1 because it was, and still is, the best IS mech, but IS mechs are very poor compared to clan mechs.

Best is assault is quirked stalker now, maybe banshee too.
Best is mechs are lights now.

Victors are nowhere close.

[Brizna]

I tried the build it comes with ... it's not as sucky as most basic loadouts but is mediocre, in the end I just removed one heat sink and all weapons and put a Gauss and 2xPPC + 4JJ, old meta never fails.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Ok, it seems to people have forgotten how to play the Victors properly.

While you can't poptart like you used to, it can still jump surprisingly high and can still rely on peek-a-booming and pinpoint front loaded damage. You have to leverage the strengths you have, not try to brawl with the clans (with an XL engine no less) and expect to be fine.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0db531787440093

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...70bd0510607f4bf

You can change up the loadouts a bit adding/removing DHS, JJs, ammo to find what you like. You can also trade up the PPCs for LPLs, though the AC20 + PPC build becomes less effective then IMHO, as PPC travel time is not an issue at AC20 ranges.

The Victor is not a front line mech. Play it like a huge medium. It's no Dire Wolf or Stormcrow, but it's still a good mech. The meta has a lot more rushing and zerging with SRMs than it used to, which does not suit the Victor quite as well as sniping, but you can perform well all the same.

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 25 November 2014 - 11:07 AM.

[Mikros04]

From earlier today FWIW, question tweeted to Russ followed by his response:

• 
  Now that the JNR F/D, CTFs, and Victors (including DS) are Tier 2/3 are you going to give them more significant quirks?
  
• 
  They are going to get some quirks yes, an updated pass on pass 1 we hope to get out with Dec 16th patch

[UrsusMorologus]

Victor heavy weapons are on the arms. Unlock them, and use the larger targeting arc to your advantage, you can shoot stuff that cant hit you back, and your arms can shield your ST. Jump jets give you three dimensions of movement. Use the vertical mobility to your advantage, by jumping on things to flank the enemy and by avoiding enemy chokepoints. Break the metagame. But the increased range of movement only matters when you are close to the target--jump and turn doesnt help you when you are 300m from the target, they just watch you jump and turn and dont have to reposition themselves--it is when you are within 50m that it matters, because they cannot keep their weapons locked on you. That is why Victor is the mech that beats TBR and DW easily. Jump and turn and BLAM TO THE FACE over and over.

ps--having said that, it is definitely a T2 or T3 mech. Weapon hardpoints are mostly spread across the waistline which makes it ineffective for anything except bumrush tactics. Assume its T2, then having JJ would automatically cancel out the 1 quirk. Its probably really T3.

Edited by UrsusMorologus, 25 November 2014 - 11:23 AM.

[XX Sulla XX]

First of all this is a good guide to starting with Victors. Now a few points that will help....

Victors need to be elited to work correctly. This is more true on a Victor than most mechs.

The Victor also needs an XL. This works if you learn how to torso twist and use your arms as shields. If it is elited so you twist fast enough. If you have a big enough engine to get enough twist speed. And you also need to learn how to use your jump jets to spread damage. If you do these things the great Victor hit boxes will spread damage all over. If on the other hand you just face people and shoot over and over you will get a side torso shot out really fast.

The Victor is a great brawler. If you run the right builds and run it in a drop deck setup for a hard early push and close range brawling it is brilliant. This build has high burst DPS and high sustained DPS. The Victor has good speed and good hit boxes and handles well. But it is not magic and needs to in the right situations to shine.

As a side not since all IS mechs are second rate because of clan weapons Russ said today the Victors are going to get quirks.

[Brody319]

PPC and JJ nerfs have made it pretty useless. I can understand eliteing it can help but I think the shitboxes it has has lead to some problems. the back hit box is directly in the middle and anything below and above that is the CT. Not even comparing it to Clan mechs, preclan mechs when JJs were kind of a threat still if you had enough of them, I never saw a victor. It was all Atlases, Stalkers, and the occasional Awesome.

I honestly had no idea the Victor was a tier 1 mech till I saw it had no quirks. I was pretty shocked to find out it was. I guess the speed and twisting helps, but I mean its like a awesome, from the side its pretty small, but from the front its a god damn wall. I really just don't see any use for it now. If they unnerf the JJs its possible it may possibly come back, but I doubt it. CW looks to be something you can't poptart.

[FupDup]

XX Sulla XX, on 25 November 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

...Russ said today the Victors are going to get quirks.

Sauce?

[Kain Demos]

FupDup, on 25 November 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

They also both take up an assault mech slot on your team...



(Another reason why I hate 3/3/3/3. )

CW is about tonnage (which is what limits need to be based on in a Mechwarrior game) so the real competition for the Gargoyle will be the Summoner, Timberwolf, and Warhawk.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 25 November 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

Sauce?

The Twitter.

https://twitter.com/...313193744281600

[FupDup]

Kain Thul, on 25 November 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

CW is about tonnage (which is what limits need to be based on in a Mechwarrior game) so the real competition for the Gargoyle will be the Summoner, Timberwolf, and Warhawk.

Let's see, a 75 ton robot with optimal traits in every category, or an 80 ton robot with an oversized engine and the pod space of a medium mech and mostly mediocre hardpoint options. Such a hard choice...

Edited by FupDup, 25 November 2014 - 01:05 PM.

[Kain Demos]

FupDup, on 25 November 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

Let's see, a 75 ton robot with optimal traits in every category, or an 80 ton robot with an oversized engine and the pod space of a medium mech and mostly mediocre hardpoint options. Such a hard choice...

I'm going to play the Gargoyle.

That being said, I know it isn't ideal.

Compared to the Timberwolf it has a very small amount of additional armor but 7-8t less (anyone know the exact number? I've heard it will have 20 or 21) pod space though both move at 89kph and the Gargoyle weighs 5 tons more.

Compared to the Warhawk it is terribly outgunned but is 18kph faster.

I'm sure I will have fun playing it as an energy boat or Gauss+energy but I know people will be bitching about it on the forums because it "isn't as good" as Timberwolf, Warhawk, or Dire Wolf.

If nothing else it will be a viable "zombie" mech--it is the first 'mech I will get to own that has 2 CT energy hardpoints. The Hellbringer will have a face laser too--something else I look forward to.

As it is right now the only 'mech that I absolutely love the hardpoints on is the Stormcrow. Replacing the Prime LT/RT with the -C ones is just evil.

Edited by Kain Thul, 25 November 2014 - 01:46 PM.

[Diablo Intercepter]

Viges, on 25 November 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

Best is mechs are lights now.

This made me chuckle.

[KharnZor]

The Victor is a bad mech?

Nice joke thread.

[QuantumButler]

Cathy, on 25 November 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

issue with it is the jj nerfs, which made sense as they should generate heat, and a mech with six jets should out jump a mech with one.

It still remains a good assault mech, its the only IS assault mech I'd consider taking on two Direwolves with trouble is people just don't want to be mobile, they just want to peek, shoot, and hide, i.e world of tanks ( of which would have Rommel turning in his grave..) and its shite at that, you run you get between them you jump and shoot you 'hop' you torso twist.


I was brawling in this thing with XL engines, when SRM hit reg was close to useless.

All comes down to the old adage, a poor workman blames his tools.

But the thing is they nerfed JJs so much that even with 6 jets you get **** all lift on assault robots, making them essentially worthless and killing the Highlander, because it has stupid 2 ton hoverjets that, even if you mount all that you can, barely let you clear a small hill, and weigh so much that you're forced to bring a loadout of guns worse than most Heavy and some medium mechs.

KharnZor, on 25 November 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

The Victor is a bad mech?

Nice joke thread.

It's not a bad mech, it just isn't a tier-1 mech, I'd say it's 2 or 3 atm.

Edited by QuantumButler, 25 November 2014 - 03:16 PM.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

I'm an expert on the Victor 9S after getting one in the weekend challenge.

Check this out.

The key is to go into your inventory and check your battlemech listings.

Then you click on your Victor-9S(C)

Then check the little box and hit the confirmation box.

Boom.

[QuantumButler]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 25 November 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

I'm an expert on the Victor 9S after getting one in the weekend challenge.

Check this out.

The key is to go into your inventory and check your battlemech listings.

Then you click on your Victor-9S(C)

Then check the little box and hit the confirmation box.

Boom.

Then sell it and put the money towards a Timberwolf.

[UrsusMorologus]

QuantumButler, on 25 November 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

But the thing is they nerfed JJs so much that even with 6 jets you get **** all lift on assault robots, making them essentially worthless and killing the Highlander, because it has stupid 2 ton hoverjets that, even if you mount all that you can, barely let you clear a small hill, and weigh so much that you're forced to bring a loadout of guns worse than most Heavy and some medium mechs.

JJs got buffed again recently ... four of them is enough to lift any mech out of the canyons or onto the roof of a 2-story building. With Victor you get up there and unlock the AC20 arm and put holes in the enemy head. That's how it wins.

At some point you guys gotta get past the days of the broken poptart ... nothing will ever be good at that anymore, doesnt mean the mechs are bad or JJs are bad, just means you are stuck in the past

Edited by UrsusMorologus, 25 November 2014 - 04:38 PM.