91 replies to this topic

[Cyborne Elemental]

Highlander, Victor and the CTF-3d are the reason we have nerfed PPC's, and the reason JJ's were the targeted for multiple nerfs for what? 4 patches in a row?

Those 3 mechs are why we finally have JJ heatscale, and increased fall damage too.

They used to be the most powerful, most mobile, most versatile mechs in the game according to the competitive crowd.

Alot has happened since then.

And while they're still good in the right hands, on the flipside, they're equally as frustrating now that clanners have made 30ppfld quite meaningless.

Victors aren't bad, they're just not good either, since the clans.
Thats the bottom line.

Take the clan mechs out of the equation, and Victors will again be at the top of the food chain.

I wouldn't put any of the Victors in IS-Tier-1, that spot now belongs to the FS,Thunderbolt-5SS, Atlas-S / DDC, and maybe the CTF-3d still.

VTR fit into Tier-4 IMO, with the VTR-DS borderline T4/T5.

[pulupulu]

No way victor being tier 5 lol. How can you compare it to the old awesome? It got JJ! Automatically one tier up. Minimum of tier 4.

VTR is still one of the better duelist in this game. I can't see many things beat it 1v1. Unfortunately, 1v1 doesn't mean much nowadays.

The victor can still do well, and be the main deciding variable that decide game... however it is not through damage that it break enemy team apart, but by movement and JJ tanking (and bonus of decent firepower). Hence, I really don't feel rewarded for playing as one. I could have just play a direwolf that net me 210k+ c-bill per win instead of 110k average.

A team with multiple VTR that know what they are doing is still going be very hard to deal with. Especially 3 VTR + 3 TBR... It is like 6 trucks rushing you down, your fatwolf won't even have time to respond.

Edited by pulupulu, 25 November 2014 - 05:36 PM.

[Brody319]

Mister D, on 25 November 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

And while they're still good in the right hands, on the flipside, they're equally as frustrating now that clanners have made 30ppfld quite meaningless.

You're welcome

[crustydog]

sigh... to sell, or not to sell, that is the question.

[Brody319]

crustydog, on 25 November 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

sigh... to sell, or not to sell, that is the question.

Its a champion and the bay its stored in isn't that valuable. I'm not going to sell mine even if I never pilot it. Then again I am a clanner so one mech of a chassis is pretty much all 3 if they don't have unique CT points so I don't need a lot of bays anyway.

[QuantumButler]

UrsusMorologus, on 25 November 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

JJs got buffed again recently ... four of them is enough to lift any mech out of the canyons or onto the roof of a 2-story building. With Victor you get up there and unlock the AC20 arm and put holes in the enemy head. That's how it wins.

At some point you guys gotta get past the days of the broken poptart ... nothing will ever be good at that anymore, doesnt mean the mechs are bad or JJs are bad, just means you are stuck in the past

I don't think they increased thrust for assault mech class JJs though, at least not on the hughlander, which feels like a hovercraft even with max JJs.

Realy really really regret purchasing my stupid Heavy Metal.

Edited by QuantumButler, 25 November 2014 - 09:49 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

QuantumButler, on 25 November 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

I don't think they increased thrust for assault mech class JJs though, at least not on the hughlander, which feels like a hovercraft even with max JJs.

Realy really really regret purchasing my stupid Heavy Metal.

And its a shame too, Highlanders used to be pretty fun.

[The Boz]

Apocryph0n, on 25 November 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

How are the missile tubes a joke? If you try using LRMs on that thing just don't play victors at all as you do not seem to understand the concept of them

The tubes are however not a joke if you put the correct size and number of SRMs into them, use an AC20 and dash around all the slow poke assaults that cant track you, while blasting away at just under 60 Alpha damage at them

Edit: Do not expect DWF or Atlas style amounts of damage per round from a mech that weighs like 20% less tho, they are fast nimble and jumpy brawlers or annoying jump snipers, not slow-death-spewing turrets

Missile tubes are a joke because you can't fit in a 3xSRM6+Artemis and fire it like a bomber, you need to use SRM6+4+2, a combination that makes Artemis pretty expensive, and lowers your missile alpha by a good 33%. Wasn't at all talking about LRMs. Although I have to say I chuckled in that one match when I crammed in 3xLRM15 in there and fired them as if I were a Clan mech.

Saying slow poke assaults can't track you is... just... what? How? You're in an 80 ton mech, going 78kph! With four jump jets, your ascent is a measly one meter per second, or something. The only thing JJs do is tell the enemy that I have decided on a predictable and easily counterable trajectory that either lasts long, but offers the ability to dodge an alpha by letting go of the thrust button, or doesn't, at which point it does pretty much nothing. Have you actually tried the 80t mech with the new JJs? I guarantee you that noone outside of the steering wheel underhive has any trouble tracking a "zippy and jumping" assault mech, unless they're in a STD 200 Atlas with chest weapons only for some reason.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Reading this thread hurts...

Be glad you're playing with it after they removed all the movement penalties.

Get it Elited. Then learn how to jump thrust walk, learn how and when to torso twist, learn how to block with your shield arm, recognize weapon fire reload rates, learn to track with the triple launch tube config, profit. You don't have to worry about overheating after 15-20 seconds of sustained fighting on any map. Laugh when people shut down and you rip their rear to shreds.

As a brawler, this Mech forces you to learn how to actually play instead of standing around with your CT exposed Alpha'ing everything in sight.

[Apocryph0n]

Yeah, get it elited. And I have no problem getting behind a DWF or Atlas and stay there (They really turn slow. Suuuuuper slow) And 78 is as fast as some mediums go

Edit: But yes, quirks are needed, compared to other mechs. Or all quirks toned down a bit to more rational levels. (VTR was tier 1, back in the days. Now it feels Tier3-4 compared to pretty much anything. Still working unless you are a complete waste of a pilot. But why make it harder than it has to be. )

Edited by Apocryph0n, 26 November 2014 - 01:48 AM.

[Kanatta Jing]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 26 November 2014 - 01:42 AM, said:

Reading this thread hurts...

Be glad you're playing with it after they removed all the movement penalties.

Get it Elited. Then learn how to jump thrust walk, learn how and when to torso twist, learn how to block with your shield arm, recognize weapon fire reload rates, learn to track with the triple launch tube config, profit. You don't have to worry about overheating after 15-20 seconds of sustained fighting on any map. Laugh when people shut down and you rip their rear to shreds.

As a brawler, this Mech forces you to learn how to actually play instead of standing around with your CT exposed Alpha'ing everything in sight.

Okay... This is 35 rounds of AC/20 ammo and 800 rounds of SRM ammo.

That is 44 full volleys with your SRM rack or 2 minutes and 56 seconds of continuous firing.

Theoretical 700 damage and 2 minutes and 20 seconds of continuous firing with your AC/20.

I would like to suggest that the application of a shred of fire discipline and occasionally (not all the time or anything nuts) remembering to aim that you could probably save off a little excess ammo to make room for the 2 medium lasers.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Mastered them a long time ago and ended up selling them all because they became such poo boxes. Been playing with my new one but its pretty much a fail unless you turn it into a harasser build and don't look for high damage. To me its just a support mech with a few places it shines in combat.
It can be fun to drive if you change your perspective. After all its only a game and its supposed to be fun.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Kanatta Jing, on 26 November 2014 - 02:18 AM, said:

Okay... This is 35 rounds of AC/20 ammo and 800 rounds of SRM ammo.

That is 44 full volleys with your SRM rack or 2 minutes and 56 seconds of continuous firing.

Theoretical 700 damage and 2 minutes and 20 seconds of continuous firing with your AC/20.

I would like to suggest that the application of a shred of fire discipline and occasionally (not all the time or anything nuts) remembering to aim that you could probably save off a little excess ammo to make room for the 2 medium lasers.

I think it is common for people to take too much ammo for an engagement. He probably doesn't even come close to running out of SRM ammo.

I have said before, keep track of how much ammo you use over several matches, and adjust accordingly. Only take the amount of ammo you are actually going to need. Allows more room for more heat sinks, bigger engines, or maybe even a bigger weapon depending (which if ballistic may force you to look into ammo usage all over again LOL).

Yea, that Victor above should be carrying no more than 3 tons IMO and maybe could get away with 2 tons.

[Kmieciu]

MeiSooHaityu, on 26 November 2014 - 03:11 AM, said:

Yea, that Victor above should be carrying no more than 3 tons IMO and maybe could get away with 2 tons.

Don't put more than 3 tonnes of ammo. You'll be dead soon, anyway :-)

On the plus side, I run a AC20+2xLPL Victor build and killed a fresh Mist Lynx in one alpha to the CT. So the Victor is probably better than a Mist Lynx ;-)

[Yosharian]

Apnu, on 25 November 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

I have a lance mate who's got an AC20, 3xSSRM2, 2xMPL, and BAP, full JJs and a booming fast engine. The thing is a monster when he closes. Any ankle biter that comes within 270m is going away wrecked if not dead. He's like a surgeon with that AC20.

This is all very well but it's still outperformed by clan laser boats who can do the same damage or better, for less tonnage and in a lower class, with half the skill required (lasers are easy to fire compared to AC20).

Saying 'my buddy who's an MWO god can do well in it' is not a defense of this mech's capabilities.

[Saobh]

I'm only keeping mine in case it ever gets quirked. But as I've never seen any of those as being a real threat on the battlefield. There isn't much sense in trying to optimize it when many other Mechs do those jobs better in the mean time.

Edited by Saobh, 26 November 2014 - 04:28 AM.

[Kmieciu]

Dare I say than a post-quirk Awesome is a bigger threat on a Battlefield than a Victor?

[Bishop Steiner]

The Boz, on 25 November 2014 - 01:35 AM, said:

So... This? Basically trade ECM for JJ and armor for speed and tankiness for being fragile?

If you find the VTR fragile, you do not know how to twist, pretty plain and simple.

The VTR is a tier one, used by Comps because when used well, it's one of the tankiest mechs in the game. The STs are actually rather small, especially compared to the massive apehanging arms.

Play mobile, hit and run and twist, and it's an absolute beast, easily able to take any other Assault in a duel.

350xl, AC20, 2 Medium Lasers and 3x SRM4 lay out pain, quite well.

[The Boz]

Fragile for three reasons:
1) Most of its firepower is in the arms. Arms are rather bulky and easy to hit.
ii) XL engine.
c) Side torsos are actually pretty large.
Sure, you can twist, and instead of getting killed, lose your laser arm. Or your ballistic arm.

[Necromonger Commander]

Victors were viable when JJ worked...